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Fermentation won't start//too much Campden

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CitizenNoob

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Hello fellow Brewers,

I hope you all are well;

Last Sunday ( August 23rd ) I pressed the apples from my garden and got from it 35 liters of juice ( 9,24602 american gallons );

I could not find campden in tablets only in powder, and I guess I have been over generous with it.

24 hours after addding the campden I hydrated champagne Yeast...no fermentation, later during the week I added more yeast, still no fermentation.

Yesterday ( Saturday ) I decided to get rid of most of the gaz /sulfur that the campden creates by simply pouring the juice in other recipients, mixing the juice well; and this several times, after I hydrated some yeast again;;; this morning same disapointment, no fermentation;

I am thinking of basically get the juice into pot and "cook" it to a near boiling point and then when it is again to temperature room, adding yeast again...not sure it will work; i am out of idea, please help.

thanks in advance
 
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CitizenNoob

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gallons : 9,24602 american gallons
I unfortunately did not have anything to weight, so i added kind of tea spoon / eyeball

thing is , a week later still no fermentation, is the idea of cooking it ( not to boil ) a good idea to get rid of the Campden, and then start a new fermentation ?
 

IslandLizard

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vino ferm

Campden

Potassium metabisulphite E224
OK, just wanted to make sure that's what it contains, K-Meta, and nothing else.

I'm not a cider or wine expert, but one teaspoon (5 grams) of K-Meta in 35 liters (9.2 U.S. gallons) should not prevent fermentation with a proper yeast, IMO.
A standard Campden tablet contains around 440mg of K-Meta or Na-Meta, IIRC.
1 teaspoon of K-Meta weighs around 7 grams. That's for the fine powder.

So you've put the equivalent of around 15-16 tablets in 35 liters/9.2 U.S. gallons of apple juice, where using 9 tablets is commonly recommended. In case the teaspoon was a bit heaped, about double the recommended amount.

Maybe @Yooper is around to provide some ideas?
 
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CitizenNoob

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OK, just wanted to make sure that's what it contains, K-Meta, and nothing else.

I'm not a cider or wine expert, but one teaspoon (5 grams) of K-Meta in 35 liters (9.2 U.S. gallons) should not prevent fermentation with a proper yeast, IMO.
A standard Campden tablet contains around 440mg of K-Meta or Na-Meta, IIRC.
1 teaspoon of K-Meta weighs around 7 grams. That's for the fine powder.

So you've put the equivalent of around 15-16 tablets in 35 liters/9.2 U.S. gallons of apple juice, where using 9 tablets is commonly recommended. In case the teaspoon was a bit heaped, about double the amount.

thanks mate!

Next time I will simply cook the juice first not use that chemie!

once again boiling the juice would help ?
 
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CitizenNoob

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thanks mate once again

I mean I put yeast on monday, wenesday and friday still no fermentation, I don't get it
 

Mtrhdltd

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What is your current gravity reading? What about OG?
 

Mtrhdltd

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Original gravity. Also did you use yeast nutrients?
Im not a cider maker, just trying to help.
I can say for sure you have messed with it entirely too much. Patience will yield the best finished product.
 
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OG = Original Gravity
The gravity at which you start the fermentation. So for this batch, OG = 1.050

How much yeast did you add?
When you rehydrated the dry yeast, what was your procedure?
Could you have killed it there?

I am using nurtients, i am using go ferm evolution from lallemand

how I do hydrate/ activate the yeast is so:

i put it in a pint glass with room temperature water and few spoon of suger, seal it with cling film and wait 1 to 3 hours till it shows activity, then add it to the juice
 

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I am using nurtients, i am using go ferm evolution from lallemand

how I do hydrate/ activate the yeast is so:

i put it in a pint glass with room temperature water and few spoon of suger, seal it with cling film and wait 1 to 3 hours till it shows activity, then add it to the juice
How much yeast did you add originally? 1 envelope/pouch to the whole 35 liters?
Then how much more, later on when nothing happened?
 
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CitizenNoob

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How much yeast did you add originally? 1 envelope/pouch to the whole 35 liters?
Then how much more, later on when nothing happened?
1 -5gramms / 0.18 OZ champagne yeast on monday
same on wednesday same on saturday


the yeast was bubbly and active as i added it
 

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I have found that pitching the double recommended yeast in fresh pressed apple juice will take a hold way faster than the natural yeast on the skins so no need to add any chemicals.
 
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CitizenNoob

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I have found that pitching the double recommended yeast in fresh pressed apple juice will take a hold way faster than the natural yeast on the skins so no need to add any chemicals.

Well I ordered 15g of champagne yeast, 15g of "bordeaux" yeast;

I just want to make sure it will work

yeast in europe is expensive each bag is like $5, can anybody confirm that ?
 
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I have found that pitching the double recommended yeast in fresh pressed apple juice will take a hold way faster than the natural yeast on the skins so no need to add any chemicals.

read your comment again,

fine but the chemical have already been used, so i will know it for next time, but now it does not help ( thanks nonetheless )
 

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Try not to stress out too much. My first year making cider, my mate dosed the juice with 10 times the amount he should have. It took almost a month to gas off but we got it started eventually and it was fine.

I'd recommend making a yeast starter. Maybe a liter or so. Then put it in the fridge once it's multiplied out. Then every 4 days or so, remove a small amount and add it to the juice. Keep doing this until it catches.
 
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Try not to stress out too much. My first year making cider, my mate dosed the juice with 10 times the amount he should have. It took almost a month to gas off but we got it started eventually and it was fine.

I'd recommend making a yeast starter. Maybe a liter or so. Then put it in the fridge once it's multiplied out. Then every 4 days or so, remove a small amount and add it to the juice. Keep doing this until it catches.

a start with like blended fruits? I blended peaches with water and sugar put them into a mason jar with an air lock to get some wild yeast
 
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funnily enough i did a test batch with juice I bought, used the wrong yeast though ( bry 97 from lallemand )
cider is fizzy, right amount of alcohol but very yeasty in taste
 

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You could do that. I usually use powdered malt extract because it has all the nutrients the yeast needs but it's not essential
 

Farside

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funnily enough i did a test batch with juice I bought, used the wrong yeast though ( bry 97 from lallemand )
cider is fizzy, right amount of alcohol but very yeasty in taste
The yeast will drop out of the cider over time and so will the yeast taste.
 
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You could do that. I usually use powdered malt extract because it has all the nutrients the yeast needs but it's not essential
make sens will get more fuits on the morrw, add some nutrients and add them to the mix;
maybe i will also add the dry yeast, except if wild yest and dry yeast compete in the same environment
 

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make sens will get more fuits on the morrw, add some nutrients and add them to the mix;
maybe i will also add the dry yeast, except if wild yest and dry yeast compete in the same environment
Cultured yeast tends to outcompete wild strains especially in environments with sulphite present. Natural selection and all that.
 

Farside

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So i should not add more yeast ?
To save money, make a yeast starter in a Mason jar or something using a new packet of yeast. Let it go for 3 or 4 days and then draw off a few ounces of liquid and add it to your stuck brew. Put the jar in the fridge, and once or twice a week draw off some yeast from the jar in the fridge and put it into the stuck ferment
 
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To save money, make a yeast starter in a Mason jar or something using a new packet of yeast. Let it go for 3 or 4 days and then draw off a few ounces of liquid and add it to your stuck brew. Put the jar in the fridge, and once or twice a week draw off some yeast from the jar in the fridge and put it into the stuck ferment

same principle as a sour dough starter then, keep it alive and fed, got you

thanks will try that
 

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What if you started a small batch of cider, maybe 1/2 gallon and after it starts to take off maybe 24-36 hours after then dump that in and then it maybe will start fermenting the larger batch due to a higher amount of yeast and it’s active already.
 
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What if you started a small batch of cider, maybe 1/2 gallon and after it starts to take off maybe 24-36 hours after then dump that in and then it maybe will start fermenting the larger batch due to a higher amount of yeast and it’s active already.
well technically I have a 25liters bucket ( 6,6043 U.S. gallons ) then three 5 liters ( 1,32086 U.S. gallons ) jars, so i guess i will start to ferment into one of the smaller jar, and slowly poor it into other jars / buckets.

i get you , make sens

[No "murica" or "amurika" -Mod]
 
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Yooper

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The dosage of campden/sulfite was at least 10 times greater than the dose should be.

1/4 tsp per 5-6 gallons is the usual amount.

Stir the cider well and often to get the sulfite to off-gas, or pour back and forth into a sanitized vessel often. After doing that for a couple of days, you can add fresh yeast.

I always use sulfites with my fresh pressed fruits- but it a much more modest dose. Wine yeast is amazingly tolerant of sulfites, but that amount is overkill by at least 10 times. It’s salvageable, so don’t worry too much!
 
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The dosage of campden/sulfite was at least 20 times greater than the dose should be.

1/4 tsp per 5-6 gallons is the usual amount.

Stir the cider well and often to get the sulfite to off-gas, or pour back and forth into a sanitized vessel often. After doing that for a couple of days, you can add fresh yeast.

I always use sulfites with my fresh pressed fruits- but it a much more modest dose. Wine yeast is amazingly tolerant of sulfites, but that amount is overkill by at least 20 times.

thanks I knew i did bad, but it has been a week, i thought it would be fine by now
 
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hum still no fermentation today but i won't give up
 
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Have you been following @Yooper's advice in #33?
Lots of liquid, so I have to organize some buckets, sterililze them and so on . I will do that tonight.
In the meantime i have blended some fruits with sugar and added yeast, i feed it often and add some of it to my Apple juice, so far no fermentation
 

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Lots of liquid, so I have to organize some buckets, sterililze them and so on . I will do that tonight.
In the meantime i have blended some fruits with sugar and added yeast, i feed it often and add some of it to my Apple juice, so far no fermentation
Forced outgassing is essential. The SO2 (sulfur dioxide) gas produced by the K-Meta retards yeast growth, and most needs to be removed before fermentation can begin.
Good stirring a few times a day is one way to get it out of your cider.

BTW, we don't "sterilize" in brewing and wine/cider/mead making. We merely sanitize and do it as thoroughly as we can.
 
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