Fermentation Temps WAY Too High - Cider - Trouble?!?

[ScrewBrew]

Originally posted in the Yeast/Fermentation forum....probably more suited here...

I know high fermentation temps have been covered when brewing beer, but I'm making cider...so I don't know if that makes things different. It seems every time I brew anything I learn a valuable lesson. This time it was fermentation temps...so here's my story.

So at 8PM last night I made a 3.25 gallon batch of cider with one pound of honey. OG was 1.055. The yeast was Red Star Cote De Blanc. MrMalty said to use 1.7 packets so I used 2. I let them hydrate for about 45 minutes.

Well....it was hot as Hades in my house last night. Room temp was about 86-88 (barf). I went ahead and pitched anyways because there was supposed to be a cold front moving through overnight and I figured things would cool down fast before active fermentation took hold. Well they didn't.

I woke up and checked on the cider at 6AM, 10 hours after pitching. The temp of the actual cider was 78 and it was bubbling like a mofo. Fermentation had obviously taken off running. I immediately moved the carboy to my basement which was 64 degrees. Yes, I should have done this in the first place.....

So my question. Will cider have any off flavors with my high initial fermentation temps? It took 10 hours to get from the mid 80's to 78. It should cool off more now that its in the basement. Your thoughts??

 

[kwksilver]

The theory for off flavors at different temperatures goes something like this i believe:
1.) yeast will generally be more metabolically active at higher temperatures up to a certain point. see herehttp://mic.sgmjournals.org/cgi/reprint/60/1/107.pdf Those temps are celsius. 40c is accepted as favoring ethanol production the most.

2.) I have pitched a berliner weisse at 120 F, which is dangerously close to viability limits. kills quite a few of your initial pitch. (i don't make yeast starters, it isn't necessary) But that batch went like a bat out of hell

3.)What you are most worried about is shunting to secondary metabolic byproducts. That can happen when the preferred sugar isn't around. (not your problem) It can also happen when micronutrients are lacking. Most of those ions happen to be enzymatic cofactors (zinc and cacium come to mind)
I don't think it matters one bit. If you really want to know about it, my friend is a phD candidate in this guy's lab: http://www.umassmed.edu/igp/faculty/peterson.cfm
My understanding is that they are one of the definite authorities on yeast genomics. They have a pretty cool library I am trying to brew through...

The reason you manically worry about keeping fermentation temperatures low is because yeasts like lager yeast will only behave as such and do their 100% clean fermentation when deprived of optimal temperature. Give them better conditions and they abandon their hardy ways and within a few generations they even lose that lager characteristic from the colony.

PS: The reason I mention the lab is because it is actually close to you and it could be done.
PPS; This is what the "green" forum thinks. "It does matter in the same way that it matters for beer. You get more esters and fusel alcohol at higher temperatures. I also believe that you get less honey aroma when you ferment higher. I try to do my fermentations near the lower end of the fermentation range. I think low-to-mid-60's would be perfect for D-47. "
I do believe that is correct and absolutely in line with expectations. At maximal metabolic rates you won't see all carbon chains chewed down to ethanol. And you will see some things you like for aroma get metabolized if you let the yeast orgy go on for a very long time. (that'll be the honey flavor)

 

[ScrewBrew]

Awesome reading! So in other words...I'm not screwed?

 

[gregbathurst]

Most cider makers try to keep temperatures down, for a slow fermentation. A fast fermentation gives more volatilization of flavour compounds, as the CO2 bubbles through quickly, you lose some flavour. I ferment at fairly high temps, mid 70s, and this year I noticed an estery flavour of bubble gum, though this disappeared with age.

 

[steelcitybrew]

I just bottled my latest batch of cider a couple days agand I hit 78 i believe on the 3rd or 4th day of the fermentation, and took me a while to get it down, but it had mellowed out considerably. I wouldnt worry at all.

 

[kwksilver]

yeah. you are "not screwed"

don't worry have a homebrew? isn't that papazians favorite line?

 

[dinnerstick]

yowah cidah's wickid haahd

 

[ScrewBrew]

Because I'm sure everyone is hanging on the edge of thier seat....I figured I'd give you an update.

At 0 hours, temps in the mid 80's. After 12 hours, very active fermentation and temps around 78. At 24 hours temps stabilized at 72 and fermentation is CRAZY!!! I actually had to add some cheap vodka to the airlock! The cider actually looked like it was simmering!

At 36 hours, fermentation is slowing down a bit to about 3 bubbles per second and temps are steady at about 70-71. At this rate, fermentation will probably be done by 48-72 hours.

I'll let it chillax in the carboy for about 3 weeks and I'll bottle age it for a couple months. YUMMMM!