feelings about clone brews?

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LiquidLunch5211

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I am still a beginner and have been spending anywhere from $40.00 to $70.00 on pre packed clone brews from my local brew store. I want to try my own recipes but don't know where to start. Is it worth buying all ingredients in bulk? Don't get me wrong I love the hobby and all the brews comes out great so I am not complaining about spending a few extra bucks on clone brews, but I feel like it could be fun to try something new as well. Any input from you all would be interesting.
 
Clone brews and kits are a great way to start. Once you do some more research though, most people want to start playing with recipes, and it sounds like you're there. As long as you make educated decisions, I think it's great to change things up.

A good place to start is by doing a recipe you have done before, or some other well reviewed recipe and make a minor tweak or two. A little more hops, a little less hops, different hops? A different strain of yeast? A small percentage of corn sugar, brown sugar, or honey? Once again though, it's always a good idea to do some research either on here or in two recommended beginner's brewing books: John Palmer's How to Brew or Charlie Papazian's The Joy of Homebrewing. I'm sure others will offer various opinions.

Good luck! :mug:
 
I think those kits are an excellent way for a beginner to get a feel of how the different grains, yeasts and hops work with each other and how they taste. However at some point you'll want to go solo. It's like someone who wants to be a baker...there comes a time when you have to stop buying the Betty Crocker cake mixes. :mug:
 
There are many ways to go about this. First of all, I would highly recommend getting some good brewing software. BeerSmith is the one I use, and I like it. It's not just for all-grain, it can be used for extract batches as well. In the software, you can look at sample recipes and select style guides to let you know what SRM/IBU/OG/FG/etc the beer should be at. So you could start building a recipe from there, or modify an existing one. One other thing you could do (saw you have a kegged pumpkin ale) is trying a normal recipe but adding stuff to it. You can make some very unique beers just by adding a different ingredient to it. Also, you could take a beer that you like and figure out how it could be improved. Don't think about it; just take the first thought that pops into your head like "bitter" or "too light" or "not smooth" and move on from there.

As far as bulk ingredients go, that's more of a preference thing. It will save you money...but if you buy bulk ingredients and then find out you don't like a certain grain or hop variety, well you're stuck with it. I wouldn't start buying bulk until you find your "house recipe" that you know you'll be brewing forever. If you have limited space, you might not want sacks or tubs of grain sitting around. If you have rodents or insects that like to explore, that is another consideration. Also, even though buying bulk does save you money, it requires a significant initial investment because although cheaper, you are still paying for bulk. I'm not saying you shouldn't, but these are some considerations.
 
Absolutely start tinkering with your own recipes! Just be careful, start simple and work up. We got crazy, brewed a spiced holiday ale from our own creation - turned out to be the best LOOKING beer we ever made but we jacked up the cinnamon ratio and created whats probably going to be a dumper. Damn cinnamon keeps getting stronger.
 
It sounds like you are on the way to wanting a little more. I would say try a website like Northern Brewer or Austin Home Brew and look at the kits they have available. I am not trying to pull you away from your LHBS, but personally I feel those two online sites do an excellent job of offering a wide range of beers that are variations of clones and recipes. Austin Home Brew especially has a huge variety of kit options with slight variations where maybe the only difference between a recipe is the type of hops or yeast used, but in the end that will drastically change the taste of your beer.

If you enjoy the clones, keep it up. If you feel like you want to get a little creative or go outside the world of clones, get a basic kit and just change it up a little, adding additional hops to the boil, or adding honey or some other sugar to increase the abv. Just experiment, that is the fun part of home brewing. Whatever you do though, always write it down so if you really like what you made, you can attempt to do it again.
 
Spend a bunch of time reading the recipe section of this forum. That way you can get a good feel for what works for each style. Try a couple of them ( some are very good) aand see how you like the recipe. This will help you learn what ingredients add to the brew.

Get some brewing software and input some of those recipes. Then you can change one ingredient, such as the hops and learn the difference. Eventually you will get a good feel for what you like.

Keep it simple at first. Making recipes is one of the fun parts of home brewing. You can make a recipe that YOU like. I have several that I put together that are very good and I am very happy with them.
 
Buy Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels. Jamil and John Palmer used it to write Brewing Classic Styles (which is great too). DGB is a little text bookey but it is exactly the knowledge you need to design your own beers. Each chapter has a great summary section at the end as well. Great book, highly recommended.
 
Great info guys, I appreciate the input. I love talking brew. I ask my local home brew store a lot and they have kind of seen me evolve as a beginner brewer. I do like clone brews just because they come out good almost every time. But like you all said it seems fun to have a family home brew recipe. I do have the book Joys of home brewing so I am going to do more research and keep reading these posts. Looking forward to getting more input from you all.
thanks again
 
Buy Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels. Jamil and John Palmer used it to write Brewing Classic Styles (which is great too). DGB is a little text bookey but it is exactly the knowledge you need to design your own beers. Each chapter has a great summary section at the end as well. Great book, highly recommended.

I agree w/this. You can find clone recipes here by using the search link.

I now make mostly my own recipes and I've been brewing less than a year. Not counting the few "infected" brews I've never made a beer I didn't like. Some are better than others, but they all have been "good beer".

I use DGB and the BJCP guide to find out what should be in a type and then add-lib my way using BeerSmith and help here at HBT.

BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Index
 
Download the free trial of Beersmith...then buy it! I think it is a great value for about the cost of a book (books are good too). It really gives you all the tools and confidence to really play around with recipes and have a good idea of how they will turn out and how each variation changes it.

I'm a rookie though...but I'm just starting out with my own recipes, skipping the kits. Keeping it simple to start until I gain more experience and using sample recipes and characteristics of commercial beers I like as a guide.
 
This is where it all starts, first the kits then the upgraded equipment, then the wife's half of the garage, then even better equipment, then your half of the garage, then.......$$$
 
kmk1012 said:
This is where it all starts, first the kits then the upgraded equipment, then the wife's half of the garage, then even better equipment, then your half of the garage, then.......$$$

So you're saying clone kits = gateway drug?
 
Nice...sounds like im on the right track. Its funny you say that because I am looking to upgrade my equipment slowly. Doing some research now. Do you think its better to move from clone kits to mini mash then move on to whole grain. Is that the normal process?
 
I pretty new too, and I haven't used Beersmith, but I thought I'd at least mention hopville.com.

I don't know how it compares to beersmith, but it seems to be a nice, introductory, free resource to formulating recipes. It'll give you an estimate of IBU's, target gravities, SRM, ABV, etc.
 
LiquidLunch5211 said:
Nice...sounds like im on the right track. Its funny you say that because I am looking to upgrade my equipment slowly. Doing some research now. Do you think its better to move from clone kits to mini mash then move on to whole grain. Is that the normal process?

That's a very common path. I would also look into BIAB (Brew-in-a-bag). Find the process that agrees with you, your space and wallet most. I know folks that have extract brewed for 10+ years and make fantastic beer. Don't feel to much pressure to change your process if you aren't ready.

I was ready to branch out and went from extract to AG. I didn't play with mini-mash.
 
+1 to hopville. I've used it, and once you get the hang of it, it is very useful.
 
Brewmasters warehouse is also a great resource for designing your own beers. Their brewbuilder tool allows you to input seperate ingredients to make a particular style. They also have a huge recipe database of brews that other folks have made.
 
I agree w/this. You can find clone recipes here by using the search link.

I now make mostly my own recipes and I've been brewing less than a year. Not counting the few "infected" brews I've never made a beer I didn't like. Some are better than others, but they all have been "good beer".

I use DGB and the BJCP guide to find out what should be in a type and then add-lib my way using BeerSmith and help here at HBT.

BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Index


Im quoting you for the sole purpose of how many Beers you have going Bottled and fermenting...... Awesome:tank:
 
If it hasn't been recommended already, I also must put forth Radical Brewing, which did more for my understanding of recipe creation than any other source.
 
Im quoting you for the sole purpose of how many Beers you have going Bottled and fermenting...... Awesome:tank:

Thanks, ya, big assortment to drink from. But these are all 1.75 gallon batches the reason I have so many is I'm brewing about once a week and get about 18 bottles per batch.
 
Thanks everyone for you info i am looking into all the input and real excited to get more advanced. As I try to move forward in my brewing are their any good youtube videos or other online resources that explain in detail more advanced brewing?
 
I like to make my own stuff but, sticking to recipes until you get the hang of how much of what or looking at recipes to see a generall consensus of how much of what is a good idea when making your own, also finding out what you like,like certain beers you really like alot of times you can find out what malt/hops or yeast it is that you like so much to make and use them.
 
I like to make my own stuff but, sticking to recipes until you get the hang of how much of what or looking at recipes to see a generall consensus of how much of what is a good idea when making your own, also finding out what you like,like certain beers you really like alot of times you can find out what malt/hops or yeast it is that you like so much to make and use them.

Not, just jump in. I've made Black American IPA that tasted more like a Porter, but it was still good beer and I learned something. Best way to learn about flavors is to try something and see what happens. Then ask Yooper for HELP LOL

:tank: :mug: :ban:
 
Is there a good way to brew smaller batches instead of 5 gallons to experiment with ideas?

Of course! Just brew a smaller batch. Use a program like Beersmith to help you figure out the amount of ingredients you need, get a smaller fermentation vessel, and brew away. Personally, I started with a Mr. Beer kit which brews about 2.5 gallons, so when I want to experiment, I use that to make smaller batches.
 
If I use smaller batches should I stay away from extract brews and use mini mash or whole grains? Does it make a difference
 
I usually start with a base recipe of a beer I like and tweak it over time to my likening. Some times it takes a few years to get it dialed in. This way your putting your own twist and learning what certain changes make in the final product. Just about all my ingredients for a 5 gallon batch at my LHBS runs me between $18.00 and $25.00. (depending on the style, it may run a little higher) When you can brew a beer you like that would cost you 8 bucks for a sixer and you can brew 8 sixers for $25.00, I like the numbers. $25 for $64+ worth of beer.
 
If I use smaller batches should I stay away from extract brews and use mini mash or whole grains? Does it make a difference

Small batches its easy to do all grain Biab. For 2 gallons you can mash roughly 3-4 # of malt do a sparge boil and ferment.All on your stove.In a 2 gallon bucket too.
 
Clones / kits are great I know alot of people brewing for years that only do kits for their consistency and ease. There's nothing IMHO wrong with that. If like alot more of us decide to venture off to your own recipes I would recommend a comfortable medium to learn how things effect each other for example - let's say you like ipa's and have cloned a Sierra Nevada ipa and they use cascade hops try changing it to simcoe or amarillo hops ..... Or maybe try alchanging your base malt from domestic 2 row to maybe Maris otter. Learn how different malts / hops/ yeast effect each other so you can create a recipe on learned experience.
 
You might try some different SMaSH brews if you have AG capabilities. Maybe trying out 2.5 gallon batches doing BIAB in your brew kettle. It would give you a good idea what hops give what aromas and what base malts give what mouth feel/malt characteristics and the like.
 
urbanmyth said:
You might try some different SMaSH brews if you have AG capabilities. Maybe trying out 2.5 gallon batches doing BIAB in your brew kettle. It would give you a good idea what hops give what aromas and what base malts give what mouth feel/malt characteristics and the like.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. I've neglected the smash and plan on kicking one out this weekend
 
Do you think its better to move from clone kits to mini mash then move on to whole grain. Is that the normal process?

Meh. I brewed 3 kits then jumped into 10 gal AG batches. Haven't regretted it a bit.

I do my own recipes. I know what I like & what I don't. I'll probably never brew a lambic, just because I don't really like them so there isn't a chance in hell I'd make a good one.

+1 on the BeerSmith (or some kind of software). Makes recipe formulation a breeze. It also helps to read every pixel you can about hops - types, aromas. flavors, etc. - and yeast. Know how the hops are going to change if you add them late-boil or at the beginning. They will act differently depending on the amount of time you boil (or don't boil) them. Know what the characteristics of different yeast types are. You can really make some interesting brewing choices based on that knowledge.
 
There is a distinction between clone and kit. I did one extract kit, haven't really done any clones yet. To be honest, there are only a handful of commercial brews I'd be interested in cloning. If I thought I could duplicate Firestone Walker Union Jack, maybe I'd give it a shot, but I don't think the quality of their beer is strictly based on ingredients - they barrel age, and I can't.
I like to look at a lot of recipes for beers of the type I want to brew, then devise my own recipe, knowing that it is at least reasonably close to recipes that have actually produced beer. I don't see any way around an experimental period, because there is one thing that will be lacking in ANY beer that somebody else invented - tailoring to YOUR taste. I've also read most of those books that are being mentioned. Good luck.
 
You might try some different SMaSH brews if you have AG capabilities. Maybe trying out 2.5 gallon batches doing BIAB in your brew kettle. It would give you a good idea what hops give what aromas and what base malts give what mouth feel/malt characteristics and the like.

Definitely. I've been taking a step back from bigger more complicated recipes in order to up my basic malt/hop/yeast/process knowledge. Plus, some of those SMASHs make awesome beer. I've got a Vienna/Hallertau session SMASH
(sessmash?) ale going now.
 
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