Feedback please: roasty rye IPA experiment!

[Torrefaction]

What’s up HBT?

I’d like some input on my next IPA recipe. My last (and first!) IPA—an all grain Stone IPA clone I found here https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3125-stone-ipa-clone —came out pretty nice, though a bit muted in terms of hop flavour (LHBS only had whole hops) and a tad sweet for my taste. Also, I can taste the alcohol content—not harsh, but present in the flavour profile, and I don’t care for that. I’d like for my next batch to overcome these drawbacks, so I'm preparing to commit the sin of all new homebrewers, which is to come up with my own recipe before I really understand what I'm doing :cross:. I tend to enjoy a dry (read: not sweet) ale that is assertive and satisfying in terms of hop bitterness (cheek puckering) with an inviting aroma and a full flavour and body that wraps itself around the tongue. Roasty hoppy dry stouts and slap-in-the-face IPAs are my thing. Trappist ales are about the opposite of my thing. The only beer I’ve ever been unable to finish was a Chimay Blue I got as a gift: all that heavy sweet oak, booze and frothy mouthfeel...

Here’s what I’ve come up with for a 5 gallon batch:

Grain Bill:

5 pounds superior pale ale
5 pounds 2-row
OR
10 pounds superior pale ale

1 pound rye
.5 pounds roasted barley
.5 pounds victory OR biscuit

= 12 pounds total

Hops:

1 ounce warrior @ 60 min
.5 falconer’s flight + .5 amarillo @ 20 min
1 ounce cascade @ 5 min
.5 falconer’s flight + .5 amarillo @ 0 min

Wyeast 1056 or WLP 001

60 min mash @ 150

3 week primary
1 ounce citra + 1 ounce amarillo dry hop in primary (last 5-7 days)

Predicted OG: 1066
Predicted FG: 1013 (ABV 6.3%)
Colour: 18.7 SRM
Bitterness: 97.2 IBU

I am by no means an experienced brewer. I want this recipe to deliver a hint of roastiness, some spice from the rye, a nice deep colour, and of course all of those things mentioned above. I don’t care about respecting IPA style guidelines in terms of either SRMs or IBUs, and I also don't want to make a black IPA. According to beer tools, this recipe will give me something like 6.3% ABV and about 100 IBU, which seems just about right to me. Beer tools is a robot though, which is why I’d appreciate input from master homebrewers like yourselves! What are your impressions looking at this recipe?

Many thanks in advance!

 

[chickypad]

If you want dry and bitter I think you've got it. I'd expect the rye, roasted barley, and victory with nothing else really to balance them will come out sharp with dry toast and roast in a beer that's not that high gravity and heavily bittered. When you say you don't want a black IPA, what characteristics do you mean? Should come out at least brown, maybe dark brown if the roasted barley is an English type in the 500L range.

I don't think it would be to my taste but maybe it's what you want. I also wonder though about the other details of your first batch - what were the OG and FG? That Stone clone does use more crystal at 7% than I typically include in IPA's, but if you get it to attenuate well it doesn't actually taste sweet in the final product IME with brewing it (though I used chico yeast not the 002). The alcohol taste might be related to fermentation practices, how are you controlling temp? If you want the hop character more pronounced I'd up the flameout addition by a couple oz and do it as a hopstand at lower temp, and also consider upping the dry hop.

 

[m00ps]

IME, youll need a lot more rye to be able to taste it, especially with the roasty notes. I would put in 3 lbs. I like using flaked rye along with regular rye since they both have slightly different rye flavor and this rounds it out

i also second the hopstand suggestion. IMO, that is not even in the ballpark of how much hops youd need in an IPA. Also the hops will be competing with the roast flavors. I would use upwards of 8oz total easy with 90% of them going in very late additions

 

[Torrefaction]

Hi Chickypad - thanks for the feedback. My Stone Clone OG was 1062, FG at 1010. I'm wondering if the English Ale yeast (WLP 002) turned up the sweet on me--apparently the 001 finishes dryer...
I kept temp between 66-68 for the entire fermentation (fermenter in basin filled with water, in the pantry, which I'd adjust as need with ice packs as needed).

 

[Torrefaction]

Chickypad: when you say it wouldn't be to your taste, what do you mean? In what ways would you find this beer unbalanced, and how would you correct it? Also, when I say I don't want to make a black IPA, I only mean I want this beer to basically be an IPA with hints of spicy and roasty kind of hanging out in the background. I like black IPA's, and I plan to make one down the road, but this ain't it.

M00ps: thanks for the flaked rye suggestion - do you think this will contribute to body as well or just flavour? Also, thank you for the suggestion to add more hops. The Stone Clone had 4.5 oz of hops including the dry hop, so I thought I was being pretty daring with my 6 in this recipe. I think I'll double my late addition to 2 oz cascade (5 min) and 1 each of amarillo and ff at flameout, then double the dry hop as well for a total of 10 oz of hops (!!!). I don't own a hopback as of yet, so I'll work with what I've got...

Thanks again. I'll let you know how it turns out!

 

[chickypad]

My tastes run toward the light, crisp, not too malty IPA's, and I'm not really a fan of brown/black IPA's in general. Something about the roast/dark malts and hops together just turn me off. I like a little victory, and rye too, but I think the half lb of roasted barley would be too much for me. I guess that's why I was confused about what you're aiming for if you don't want anything like a black IPA, as I think the RB is dragging it that way.

 

[m00ps]

Yeah, flaked rye will help with body and head retention like flaked oats or flaked wheat.

 

[GuitsBoy]

I played it conservatively with my first rye PA and only used two pounds. For sure it needed another pound or two. At only 2 lbs, you can tell its there, but you cant really pinpoint what it is. At only one pound, you probably wont even detect its in there.