Faux ice cider

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bmd2k1

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Call it faux or cheaters ice cider...whatever the terms - it's some of my fav stuff!

Just firing up a fresh batch using D47, 28cans FAJC & 2gals Sams 100% AJ. Should be ready for cold crashing in about 4weeks & looking for an ABV in the low to mid 14% range. OG was 1.132. Using my 5.3gal speidel & will keep room temp in the low to mid 60s. (This is double the batch size I cranked out earlier this year.)

Anyone else love this stuff? Please share your recipes...methods...thoughts

Cheers! [emoji111]


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RPh_Guy

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it's some of my fav stuff!
YES!!! LOVE it!
Looks great!

I made one batch so far with this process:
Old Orchard (rebranded as Great Value) FAJC diluted to OG 1.140.
Rehydrated and pitched 8g/gal R-HST.
Fermented in the low 50s and left it alone for a few months.
Added sulfite at bottling.

It finished at 1.059, sweeter than I wanted but tastes incredible. Tart, spicy, and sweet.
 

MarkKF

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Finished at 1.059? Fresh unfermented cider is usually 1.050-1.054 here
 

RPh_Guy

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Finished at 1.059? Fresh unfermented cider is usually 1.050-1.054 here
Yes sir!

Not where I was aiming but it is delicious. It does not taste cloying; the acidity and alcohol balance it very well.
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Dig the aroma of this D47 ice cider fermenting! Fills the entire basement with sweet apple goodness! [emoji111]
 
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bmd2k1

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Update time [emoji41]

30days in...getting an airlock bubble every low60 secs...room has consistently been in the mid-low60's.

SG is currently 1.035 -- so approx ABV 12.7%

Gonna let this go till the yeast hits it's alcohol tolerance in the low 14% range...which should be another point or so. Once it hits that will cold crash and let it sit on lees for a bit.

Currently tastes awesome -- very appley...smooth and sweet -- bit too sweet still...Lightly effervescent. Great apple aroma too. Dig it!

(still shooting to get a tilt hydrometer soooon...to take some of the guess work & bubble counting outta my processes)

Cheers!
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Anyone firing up some Faux Ice Cider over the holidays? I'll be starting a batch right around Christmas using my typical D47 protocol. Really dig this stuff!

Cheers [emoji111]
 
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bmd2k1

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What is this stuff? What makes it Ice cider? Only seen a few references of it and am here to lurk and learn.
Hi concentration of FAJC -- gives it opportunity to reach 13-14% (depending on yeast used) with Lots of residual sugars [emoji111]

The faux is using the FAJC rather than the traditional methods involving frozen grapes or freezing the must.

Cheers [emoji111]
 

Blacksmith1

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And I want to thank you guys again for turning me on to this idea. The wife loves the Concord done this way. I'll be starting a batch of apple soon.
 

gunhaus

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We have for years made a "cider" Using local juice and sugar up at 9-10% after two months. (No mystery here Old Orchard, sugar, EC-1118 to the numbers) Then we freeze distill this TWICE. A 50 percent reduction each time. (I.E. 5 gal to 2.5, 2.5 to 1.25ish.) We use dry ice for the second chill. Served still this is an intoxicating jack. But Ice cold, kegged, and carbed, this is one of the most dangerous things EVER!!!. Don't know if it is ice cider - but it IS thick, sweet, high alcohol, and GOOD. so same sorta thing.
 

CKuhns

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Would appreciate any comments or advice to the approach below from those who have tried this.

So.... What i am reading here is that unlike a high ABV Mead OG >1.125 using D47 with TOSNA 3.0, aeration and releasing CO2 down to 1/2 sugar break (I have pushed to < 1.000 FG) you are just letting the yeast do their thing and stop where they stop or stabilize?.

I did not see anywhere where aeration or nutrients were involved. As such....

Here is what I'm thinking....
- 2 packs (10g) D47 Yeast started 12 - 24 hours in a similar gravity must as the batch.
- Target 1.135 OG with 25 - 30 cans FAJC & 2gals Old Orchard 100% AJ for a total volume of just over 4.5 gallons
(Perfect for my open 5 gallon carboy.)
- Aerate the must well just prior to pitch and pitch the starter.
(No additional nutrients)
- Bring it to the basement - running at 62 Deg F (will be for a number of months)
(No releasing CO2 or aeration)
- In other words don't touch it other than checking gravity, observing it and tasting it once a week.
- Should be ready for cold crashing in about 4-8 weeks
- Looking for an ABV in the low to mid 14% range. Target FG somewhere near 1.025 to 1.035 FG.
- Clarify and Cold crash (MN Winter will help.)
- Bottle in beer bottles and crown caps.
- Pasteurize immediately after bottling to inhibit any remaining yeast. (I don't do Sulfites or Sulfates)
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Would appreciate any comments or advice to the approach below from those who have tried this.

So.... What i am reading here is that unlike a high ABV Mead OG >1.125 using D47 with TOSNA 3.0, aeration and releasing CO2 down to 1/2 sugar break (I have pushed to < 1.000 FG) you are just letting the yeast do their thing and stop where they stop or stabilize?.

I did not see anywhere where aeration or nutrients were involved. As such....

Here is what I'm thinking....
- 2 packs (10g) D47 Yeast started 12 - 24 hours in a similar gravity must as the batch.
- Target 1.135 OG with 25 - 30 cans FAJC & 2gals Old Orchard 100% AJ for a total volume of just over 4.5 gallons
(Perfect for my open 5 gallon carboy.)
- Aerate the must well just prior to pitch and pitch the starter.
(No additional nutrients)
- Bring it to the basement - running at 62 Deg F (will be for a number of months)
(No releasing CO2 or aeration)
- In other words don't touch it other than checking gravity, observing it and tasting it once a week.
- Should be ready for cold crashing in about 4-8 weeks
- Looking for an ABV in the low to mid 14% range. Target FG somewhere near 1.025 to 1.035 FG.
- Clarify and Cold crash (MN Winter will help.)
- Bottle in beer bottles and crown caps.
- Pasteurize immediately after bottling to inhibit any remaining yeast. (I don't do Sulfites or Sulfates)
Very similar to what I do on a regular basis -- my protocol :

2gals 100% AJ + 28cans FAJC -- gets me to 1.132 +/- .001

1pak D47 rehydrated in 2oz warm h20 + 1/4tsp nutrient & 1/4tsp white sugar -- for 45mins

My fermentation done in the mid to low 60s typically is 5-6weeks till D47 poops out at an ABV of 14% +/- a tenth or 2. I don't do anything to it during this time.

Typical FG is 1.03

Cold crash for 48hrs....then rack into 1gal containers & refrig. Zero chemicals ever added.

Cheers & Good luck [emoji111]
 
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MarkKF

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I’ve tried it with FAJC. But next year I wanna get some fresh pressed juice and freeze concentrate it myself. I think better juice makes all the difference. So which yeast do you recommend for 14%?
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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I’ve tried it with FAJC. But next year I wanna get some fresh pressed juice and freeze concentrate it myself. I think better juice makes all the difference. So which yeast do you recommend for 14%?
I'm a D47 guy [emoji111] Hits 14% regularly 4 me in my faux ice ciders -- cold crashes great -- leaving thick caramel-like lees & the flavor profile is fantastic. (I'm sure others have their favs.....)

Let us know how ya make out next year [emoji106]
 

Rockybrew

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@bmd2k1
This is a great post, thanks for sharing!! I can't wait to give this a try... maybe this weekend!! I've been making cider for a few years and I've always "amped up" the ABV by adding a few cans of FAJC and corn sugar or brown sugar to my fresh pressed AJ or Costco AJ. OG is usually 1.085 to 1.095. But this, this is a whole different level.

I see in your photos you have an airlock on your fermentor, but I also read that @CKuhns mentioned no aeration or releasing Co2. To clarify... your fermentation is venting Co2 with your airlock correct, and it looks like your primary fermentation is about 6 weeks?

I have never used D47, but as noted in this thread, it's tolerance is 14% which leaves you with a FG of 1.003. Have you ever tried EC-1118, or do you not want it that dry?

Troy in NE Ohio
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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@bmd2k1
This is a great post, thanks for sharing!! I can't wait to give this a try... maybe this weekend!! I've been making cider for a few years and I've always "amped up" the ABV by adding a few cans of FAJC and corn sugar or brown sugar to my fresh pressed AJ or Costco AJ. OG is usually 1.085 to 1.095. But this, this is a whole different level.

I see in your photos you have an airlock on your fermentor, but I also read that @CKuhns mentioned no aeration or releasing Co2. To clarify... your fermentation is venting Co2 with your airlock correct, and it looks like your primary fermentation is about 6 weeks?

I have never used D47, but as noted in this thread, it's tolerance is 14% which leaves you with a FG of 1.003. Have you ever tried EC-1118, or do you not want it that dry?

Troy in NE Ohio
Yeppers...I use Speidel fermenters & always use an airlock [emoji111]

Only do a primary ferment & yep it's typically 5-6weeks.

Nope on EC-1118.

Cheers & Good luck [emoji106]
 

CKuhns

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I think the idea here is to let the final product be very sweet. Something near 1.030. EC 1118 has a tolerance of 18% or more if i remember correctly. I drove a mead to nearly 19% with it. I would suspect EC 1118 would drive this dry and defeat the purpose.
 

RPh_Guy

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RHST handles low temperature and is well behaved. It stops at 13.5% ABV for me.
I rehydrate, no starter.
I haven't used nutrient besides Go-Ferm and there hasn't been any H2S production.
It drops brilliantly clear on its own.
I stabilize and bottle after a few months.
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Firing up a New Year's 2020 batch today!

My standard recipe being used:
D47 - rehydrated
28cans FAJC
2gals 100% AJ

Cheers & Happy New Year All :)
 

CKuhns

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Started mine yesterday!

Same recipe.
1.138 OG
Started 2 packs D47 12 hours prior to pitch.
Aerated for 30 minutes after yeast pitch with a fish tank pump.
Coming along nicely at 62 Deg F.

As it is my first try at this I will check the gravity every week and taste it to see how it is coming along.

Looking forward to seeing how this comes out.

Thanks for the inspiration.
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Started mine yesterday!

Same recipe.
1.138 OG
Started 2 packs D47 12 hours prior to pitch.
Aerated for 30 minutes after yeast pitch with a fish tank pump.
Coming along nicely at 62 Deg F.

As it is my first try at this I will check the gravity every week and taste it to see how it is coming along.

Looking forward to seeing how this comes out.

Thanks for the inspiration.
Sweeeeeeet [emoji106]

Cheers [emoji111]
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Eden in the process of cranking out the non-faux version [emoji12]

Cheers!

Screenshot_2020-01-09-17-15-18.jpeg
 

CircleC-Brewer

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I’m about to do my first Frost Cider. Heard that description from a cidery that uses a freezer instead of Mother Nature. The OG they recommended was 35 brix (1.153 sg) or higher. The final gravity should not be below 1.050 sg (which is to the style guidelines). They use the wild yeast that’s on the apples they press to ferment the juice. However some people are using 71B with great results. I will ferment around 55f to minimize any fusel alcohols.

I’ve heard Ice Cider is delicious, but it can be a bit sweet. I’m thinking of letting mine dry out a bit more to 1.040sg. I will post pictures soon.
Cheers
 

RPh_Guy

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FG around 1.030 to 1.040 and ABV 13-14% creates a more balanced cider, less dessert-like but still unmistakably sweet.

FG around 1.060 is definitely dessert sweet and more true to the ice wine style.

However YOU are the winemaker and do NOT have to follow any kind of style guidelines. :)

Cheers!
 

CKuhns

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Update
OG at D47 yeast pitch on 1-30-19 = 1.138
As of today 1-16-2020 SG 1.052
Temp held constant at 62 Deg F
Apple flavor is pretty prevalent and no H2S or off flavors. Was concerned due to no additional nutrients, aeration and or even the lack of mixing. This is behaving more like a hard cider with an OG of 1.060 with the timeline more like my Meads at a similar OG. But with much less "Care and feeding".

Very excited to see how this does over the next few weeks. Target OG is 1.030 Then cold crash to clarify bottle and pasteurize "still".
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Update
OG at D47 yeast pitch on 1-30-19 = 1.138
As of today 1-16-2020 SG 1.052
Temp held constant at 62 Deg F
Apple flavor is pretty prevalent and no H2S or off flavors. Was concerned due to no additional nutrients, aeration and or even the lack of mixing. This is behaving more like a hard cider with an OG of 1.060 with the timeline more like my Meads at a similar OG. But with much less "Care and feeding".

Very excited to see how this does over the next few weeks. Target OG is 1.030 Then cold crash to clarify bottle and pasteurize "still".
Its been fermenting for almost 1 year?!?
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Update
OG at D47 yeast pitch on 1-30-19 = 1.138
As of today 1-16-2020 SG 1.052
Temp held constant at 62 Deg F
Apple flavor is pretty prevalent and no H2S or off flavors. Was concerned due to no additional nutrients, aeration and or even the lack of mixing. This is behaving more like a hard cider with an OG of 1.060 with the timeline more like my Meads at a similar OG. But with much less "Care and feeding".

Very excited to see how this does over the next few weeks. Target OG is 1.030 Then cold crash to clarify bottle and pasteurize "still".
Cool [emoji106] Keep us posted on this bad boy. It really is a fantastic, low maintenance cider [emoji111] Interested to hear where ur ABV stops w/D47... I tend to top out at 14/14.1% with this recipe & protocol.

Cheers [emoji41]
 

CKuhns

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Update
OG at D47 yeast pitch on 12-30-19 = 1.138
As of yesterday 1-30-2020 SG 1.038
Temp held constant at 62 Deg F throughout.

Apple flavor is about where I would like it to be with no H2S or truly "off" flavors. It will likely require some age as there is some small amount of fusel present. I suspect will need a bit of citric acid to "brighten it up" and perhaps tannen to balance mouth feel a bit.

Still "chugging" along and obviously although slow still actively fermenting. Plan is to rack and cold crash at 1.030 with an expected ABV of roughly 14.2 then clarify if needed and pasteurize while bottling for a "still" cider.
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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Update
OG at D47 yeast pitch on 12-30-19 = 1.138
As of yesterday 1-30-2020 SG 1.038
Temp held constant at 62 Deg F throughout.

Apple flavor is about where I would like it to be with no H2S or truly "off" flavors. It will likely require some age as there is some small amount of fusel present. I suspect will need a bit of citric acid to "brighten it up" and perhaps tannen to balance mouth feel a bit.

Still "chugging" along and obviously although slow still actively fermenting. Plan is to rack and cold crash at 1.030 with an expected ABV of roughly 14.2 then clarify if needed and pasteurize while bottling for a "still" cider.
I add 2t acid blend to All my ciders...including my faux ice.

I've aged this bad boy in a charred oak barrel (2L) for 40 days -- tasted amazing [emoji16] -- like a low ABV bourbon.

I've got a 5gal batch I started on 12/31 -- still chugging along & will check at the 6week mark - which is typically when mine have finished fermenting...ie) D47 tends to poop out at 14.1ish% in this cider for me.

Mine have never been Hot -- and I can enjoy em right after cold crashing. My walkout basement tends to experience wide temp swings in the winter due to a gas fireplace & me opening a window to air out from pets -- looking at my log this year it's been anywhere from 54F up to 70F. [emoji111]

Cheers [emoji111]
 
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bmd2k1

bmd2k1

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This batch is at the 5week mark -- decided to check SG -- low & behold it blew past my 1.03 target --- down to 1.022 --- which is pushing 15% ABV. Tossed it in fridge to cold crash. Tastes great...not hot at all...but not as sweet as previous batches -- so May hit with some FAJC on back-end....May!

The wonders of fermentation [emoji111]
Screenshot_2020-02-04-20-21-24.jpeg
 

CKuhns

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As of 2-5-20 Hit 1.034. Yeast and ferment itself looked like it was still moving right along. Racked from lees and cold crashing. (Ya gotta love MN winters.) Figure D47 can still work albeit much slower at very cool temps. Will give it a week, add an ounce of med toast oak chips, a bit of vanilla and some acid then another two weeks rack and clarify if needed. Will bottle and pasteurize them.

Will post additional comments and thoughts about the process and how it tastes shortly after.
(So far, very pleased with it at this stage.)
 

CKuhns

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Final thoughts 2-28-20

I like how this faux ice cider turned out. Falls into the desert cider (wine) category.

Added a couple of thoughts and observations to the process for consideration.

D47 at 62 deg f. Took nearly 8 weeks to get to 1.034 and was clearly still actively fermenting. Required cold crash to stop the little buggers. Not too surprising and given enough time they would have kept working well beyond their posted tolerance.

Added 2 oz med toast oak chips, 1.5 tsp citric acid and 1.5 oz vanilla to hit the flavor profile i prefer. Clarified using KC Super Kleer and bottled then immediately pasturized "still". Will require a little age, drinkable now but should be great in 6 months.

For furure batches :
- Target the desired FG and cold crash vs. waiting for the yeast to hit their tolerance.
- I will add a small amount of additional nutrient (Fermaid-O) to help it along at yeast pitch.
- Will ferment cooler. Thinking closer to 50 and certainly no more than 55 Deg F. Will take a lot longer but should be much cleaner and preserve more of the apple flavor.

This faux ice cider is a "keeper" and I will definately do it again!

Thanks so much for the inspiration!
 
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