Fast Souring - Modern Methods

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Sc0ttyt^

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My latest sour brew:
4 lbs 2-Row
1.5 lbs Vienna
2 lbs White Wheat
Sach Trois, WY5112 Brett Brux from starters
12 drops of Brutzyme (amyloglucosidase, a-amylase, pullulanase and other dextrinases)
1 Swanson pill Lacto P. starter (1g/L chalk) 0.2L pitched at 24hr (50% AA)
Started at 67°F, rise 1°F/day until 72°F
5.7 gallon batch size (after starter pitches)

One issue, the first 20 hours (40% AA) of fermentation had no pressure relief so ester production may be suppressed. Sample taken after 7 days - 1.000 with a PH of 3.72. It seems the lacto P. does not reach terminal sourness with this method/organisms/temperature (neither good nor bad). I decided to add 0.5 lbs/gallon of frozen (pasteurized) raspberries which kicked the gravity up maybe 1.5 points. This fermentation took off. Note my graph does not display the -0.002 calibration offset for my Tilt. I'll see how things go, but I may keg this as early as day 14. Also, I am planning on adding 1oz of Hallertau Blanc hop tea at some point.

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RPh_Guy

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I have a Sour Noir (Stout) Solera that I have been cycling since 2014. I was using a 50 gallon barrel and the project/experiment has to be taken a different direction for me, so have emptied the barrel into Carboys and will referment 15 gallons for a friend to play with, he wants to distill it. the other 35 gallons will be set aside for blending and refermenting. Roselare yeast was the base, but I have added dregs of Brett and every Gueuze that I enjoyed over the years. I will refermenting with different fruits and sharing with others that will also do the same.

It has been interesting to experience the changes over time. A couple of years ago it was more acidic than I liked, but it has mellowed with age and is now changed again. It has been a very nice experiment overall and one that I would encourage others to take on. If anyone is in Michigan and Detroit area, I would love to share or collab, just message me.
You probably want to start your own thread. This has little to do with the topic here. Best of luck!
 

Beer666

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I have a beer thas finished at 996. How is this even possible? Its carbing up at the moment so i have not had a glass yet. Follows the method in this thread. Fingers crossed it drinks well as i have pitched onto the yeast cake.
 
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RPh_Guy

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I have a beer thas finished at 996. How is this even possible? Its carbing up at the moment so i have not had a glass yet. Follows the method in this thread. Fingers crossed it drinks well as i have pitched onto the yeast cake.
A hydrometer measures density. Alcohol is less dense than water.
 

Sc0ttyt^

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In addition, assertively diastaticus (STA-1+) yeast or the addition of exogenous enzymes, as outlined in this method, can easily result in a FG of 0.996. I state "assertively" because many STA-1+ yeasts will not approach critical attenuation in normal conditions. How active this gene is varies across strain and environmental conditions. The type and amount of exogenous enzymes also plays a role.
 

ryking13

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I had Tiny Esses by Partisan Ales last night, really fun and good sour! I'm curious if anyone knows how they get that tangy sour flavor? It was probably the most sour beer I've had. Not puckering but def higher than your typical kettle sour. And it was different than a lacto sour, like a tangyness. Any thoughts? Thanks!
 

Dgallo

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I had Tiny Esses by Partisan Ales last night, really fun and good sour! I'm curious if anyone knows how they get that tangy sour flavor? It was probably the most sour beer I've had. Not puckering but def higher than your typical kettle sour. And it was different than a lacto sour, like a tangyness. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Could be using pedio for their lactic producing strain which gives little more depth. That says, I would honestly describe all lacto sours as tangy, is there any other ways you could describe the difference in flavor. Like did it have a slight hint of vinegar?
 

ryking13

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Could be using pedio for their lactic producing strain which gives little more depth. That says, I would honestly describe all lacto sours as tangy, is there any other ways you could describe the difference in flavor. Like did it have a slight hint of vinegar?
I'm bad at describing flavors ha, I guess I don't consider my lacto-based sours all that "tangy" where this beer was. The other way I'd describe it is that sourness that makes you pucker, def had more of that than most sours beers I've had. It didn't remind me of vinegar really but I've never had a beer with vinegar; or at least that I've known of :)
 

Dgallo

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I'm bad at describing flavors ha, I guess I don't consider my lacto-based sours all that "tangy" where this beer was. The other way I'd describe it is that sourness that makes you pucker, def had more of that than most sours beers I've had. It didn't remind me of vinegar really but I've never had a beer with vinegar; or at least that I've known of :)
Gotcha. Vinegar character is acetic acid. Some microbs make it In Healthy fermentations and others make it when stressed.

Do you drink primarily kettle sours or do you also drink mix ferms with Brett. It’s certainly possible your getting a combined character from the culture blend used
 

ryking13

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Gotcha. Vinegar character is acetic acid. Some microbs make it In Healthy fermentations and others make it when stressed.

Do you drink primarily kettle sours or do you also drink mix ferms with Brett. It’s certainly possible your getting a combined character from the culture blend used
Primarily kettle sours and then my own lacto "fast" sours. Hmm yeah I wonder if they used a Brett.
 

Dgallo

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Primarily kettle sours and then my own lacto "fast" sours. Hmm yeah I wonder if they used a Brett.
I just looked up the beer. Its a kettle/copitched lacto sour that was aged on candy. The candy most likely has citric acid and artificial flavors/sugars so it could be the difference you’re tasting
 

ryking13

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I just looked up the beer. Its a kettle/copitched lacto sour that was aged on candy. The candy most likely has citric acid and artificial flavors/sugars so it could be the difference you’re tasting
Citric acid would make sense as citrus fruit can give you that puckering feeling. Yeah I'm assuming they're adding Skittles in it, hence the tiny S's :)
 
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