Extract to all grain conversion question

[wfowlks]

Hey guys,

So I had previously made an extract Weizen IPA which I liked. However, I thought that it could have had a bit more body.

The extract I was using was 50% wheat / 50% barley.

I am planning on doing BIAB if that makes any difference, however, I wasn't sure which of the barley or the wheat to add more of, or if any other part of the process was a limiting factor?

Below is the recipe that I was planning on using before i switched up the wheat/barley:

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Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.02 gal Distilled Water Water 1 -
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 38.5 %
5 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 38.5 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.7 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 7.7 %
1 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 6 7.7 %
1.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 27.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 7.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
1.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Aroma Steep 5.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.066 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 37.7 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 13.3 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: BIAB, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs
Sparge Water: 0.00 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.1 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Saccharification Add 35.87 qt of water at 162.9 F 156.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

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[jbsg02]

If you want more body, then just mash at 155. I'm not an expert at recipes, but that seems like a lot of specialty malts

 

[wfowlks]

How much specialty grain is normally used?

 

[scoundrel]

How much specialty grain is normally used?

I don't think you're using too much specialty grains, however one addition of magnum for aroma instead of bittering seems odd. Also, IMO mashing @ 152 would give you medium body and would work nicely for an IPA.

 

[H-ost]

Distilled water is not what you want to use for all-grain. Only thing I can think to add.

 

[wfowlks]

I just use distilled water in the recipe builder because it doesn't let me put filtered tap water, and i'm to lazy to input/find the Baltimore water info, for the water after I use my pur filter

 

[Newbeerguy]

Personally I'd drop the Crystal 60. I think both the C60 and Caramunich is just too much...

What yeast are you using? Mashing at 156 and using a pound of Carapils will help out on the body/head retention. Also you could sub out 1/2lb of the carapils and add some oats for a little more texture.


I also agree that the flamout Magnum addition is a bit strange....why not use 1/2oz of the Magnum for bittering and use more Cascade for flavor?

 

[wfowlks]

Last time I used WPL300 (Hefeweizen Ale), when I did the extract version.

 

[Newbeerguy]

Last time I used WPL300 (Hefeweizen Ale), when I did the extract version.

Hmm...never tried a Wheat IPA before, well had a Shock Top IPA, but never tried to brew one.......maybe think about using WLP320. Little less clove/banana and attenuates a tad less too...might leave a bit more body you're looking for.

 

[wfowlks]

I had actually had a beer from Germany, braufactum Indra, if say a few flights up from shock top, but it had a banana finish with a grapefruit head, I will try the yeast you suggested, I actually may mix them after reading the notes on it

 

[Newbeerguy]

Yeah I am interested to see how this comes out. Keep us posted!

 

[helibrewer]

I agree on using the Magnum early to bitter and the Cascade for aroma, especially if you like the grapefruit.

I would also drop the Crystal. Might consider 3-4 oz of Acidulated malt, it helps stabilize the mash pH very nicely without adding any flavor components.

 

[wfowlks]

What is the reason you would stabilize the ph?

 

[scoundrel]

I just use distilled water in the recipe builder because it doesn't let me put filtered tap water, and i'm to lazy to input/find the Baltimore water info, for the water after I use my pur filter

I live in Ellicott City but our water comes from Baltimore. Our water is actually pretty good. I also filter but I use one of these.

Camco-Water-Filter-with-Hose/14504321

Pur just gets pricey over time. Perfect for drinking but you run through filters quickly when brewing. The Camco filter lasts for about 5000 gallons for $18.

 

[wfowlks]

I just moved here from Boston well water and all I can smell and taste is the chlorine, plus I get the filters at Costco. I've been brewing every month and I through pur filters every 3 months. I think I'll go with your filter thanks for the suggestion

 

[wfowlks]

I also agree that the flamout Magnum addition is a bit strange....why not use 1/2oz of the Magnum for bittering and use more Cascade for flavor?

So now I have it:

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Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.02 gal Deer Park (R), Bottled Water Water 1 -
5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 38.5 %
5 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 38.5 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4 9.6 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 7.7 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.8 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.9 %
0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 23.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 6.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 10 17.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 3.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs
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Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 35.87 qt of water at 159.6 F 153.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

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[wfowlks]

Just a quick update, I started brewing today, a red IPA, not this one, this one will be next weekend, so that I can work on the recipe a little more with a little more research, however, here is the picture that I took of the extract version of this:

I'm hoping to get a little bit more opaque with the all grain one, so I think the 1/2 lb of oats should do that ?

 

[Newbeerguy]

Just a quick update, I started brewing today, a red IPA, not this one, this one will be next weekend, so that I can work on the recipe a little more with a little more research, however, here is the picture that I took of the extract version of this:

I'm hoping to get a little bit more opaque with the all grain one, so I think the 1/2 lb of oats should do that ?

Well not sure it oats will effect the clarity much. The yeast/wheat will.

I still don't think your recipe will look like that beer though. You still are using alot of Crystal malt. Caramunich is a Crystal malt. I'd cut out the C60 entirely. I'd also scale back the Caramunich to a pound. Maybe even cut the Carapils out or at least to 1/2lb. The wheat will provide plenty of head retention.

I just think as it stands now it has too much going on. Too sweet (with all the Crystal malt). Couple that with higher mash temps, it won't attenuate very well and leave alot of sweetness behind. Something you really don't want in an IPA. Also, I'd do either the oats or the Carapils. No reason to do them both IMHO.

The hopping schedule looks good. But those are the changes I'd recommend and go with.

 

[wfowlks]

Ok, so after looking at your comment I've made some more changes to it after re-reading the actual beer that I was trying to replicate. It's funny that you were pretty close to spot on with the recipe I was trying to create

Keep in mind this is translated from German.

(page: http://www.braufactum.de/Kollektion/Indra::15.html) -- Chrome can translate on the fly.

INGREDIENTS Water, wheat malt (pale wheat malt, Weizencaramelmalz), barley malt (Vienna malt, caramel malt), hops (Cascade, Magnum)

TASTING NOTES A color like bright golden yellow, slightly cloudy with slight foaming. Surprisingly opening with aromas of oak, which pop up from behind a mix of honey, and herbs such as sweet woodruff Orangenlimo. In the mouth, fits with an earthy undertone to another facet.


So after re-reading these, I have updated the recipe to:

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Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.02 gal Deer Park (R), Bottled Water Water 1 -
6 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 44.4 %
5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 3 40.7 %
1 lbs Caramel Wheat Malt (46.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.4 %
1 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5 7.4 %
0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 22.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 6.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 17.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [35.49 ml] Yeast 10 -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.068
Est Final Gravity: 1.016
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.8 %
Bitterness: 50.6 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 13.1 SRM

<< Same Mash Profile >>

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Also here is a picture of the color/haze I was looking for, I was close, but I like perfection:

 

[wfowlks]

*** UPDATE ***

Ok, So I finally got around to acquiring all the materials and having the time I needed to brew this. I brewed this on Sunday, and I ended up with about 6 gallons of 1.055 wort instead of the 5 gallons of 1.068. But after plugging it all into Beersmith, I had a efficiency of 82%. (Not bad for the first all grain)

The temperature did drop to 146 for about 10 min before I got it back up. Hopefully this wont cause me any problems, or result in un-fermentable sugar.

It is now vigorously fermenting at about 69 degrees, (thank goodness for the blowoff tube).

Also another question... Would it have been possible to get the OG up to 1.068 like predicted? If so how?

Thanks for your help guys.