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BBlack

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Hi

I tried and experiment and need help. I have wanted to do a dragons milk stout clone without buying a kit and using what I have. I had already on hand 2 stout kits form Beer Simply Beer. One kit is .25 lbs black malt, .25 lbs chocolate malt, 6lbs dark malt syrup, 1lb dark dry malt extract, 1oz cluster (60min) and 1oz cascade (20min). So because they have been sitting around 6 months plus and I hadn't gotten to using them, I decided to experiment, I basically brewed two kits as 5 gallons. Super concentrated, so much syrup which may be the problem. I did however leave out half the hops to dry hop in second. Also in second I added 2 cups whisky and 4oz American oak soaked in the whisky. Because I knew this was going to be tricky I used a lot of yeast nutrient 5 tablespoons, instead of teaspoons. I did a big starter of safale s-05, s-33 and a touch of red star Dady. Day two I added another starter and more yeast nutrient. Starting gravity was 1.115. it fermented super fast in one day to 1.062. Then it slowly crept for two weeks to 1.056. At this point I racked to second and added the whisky and added the dry hops in a spider and removed after 48 hours. This lowered the gravity to 1.052 immediately, as expected, and it has been now stalled for two days doing nothing. Even with the whisky the yeast should still be within tolerance range. Last night I pulled a 500mL sample and added Red Star Premier Blanc to see if it was indeed the yeast that petered out. It fizzed within the first few hours and this morning there was no activity. I also did this with Dady and nothing at all. I go home in the next 3 hours and hope to see activity in one of the samples. Otherwise I am at a loss. I would like to get 11-12% like the dragons milk. I know it's not a true close but it's an experiment. Any ideas what I could do to or should I just let it sit and see? I am prepared to let this rest for the next 6-8 weeks. I am not taking samples constantly I have a RAPT pill in there, I have checked against the hydrometer and the are within 0.002 points each time. I I should have never got the RAPT pill cause now I can't stop watching it, which is probably the real problem. Anyway thanks for the help in advance.
 

Kickass

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Wow, lots of tinkering. I’d say agitate, warm and wait. And verify with hydrometer. You said you have 6-8 weeks, take it easy for at least a couple weeks.

In the future, lots of 02, temp control and a giant fresh yeast pitch. Then you don’t have to fuss with it. I had a 12% RIS reach terminal gravity in 12 days with Nottingham last year.

Good luck!

Edit: and welcome to HBT.
 
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BBlack

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Wow, lots of tinkering. I’d say agitate, warm and wait. And verify with hydrometer. You said you have 6-8 weeks, take it easy for at least a couple weeks.

In the future, lots of 02, temp control and a giant fresh yeast pitch. Then you don’t have to fuss with it. I had a 12% RIS reach terminal gravity in 12 days with Nottingham last year.

Good luck!

Edit: and welcome to HBT.
Yep lots of tinkering. I probably should have initially just ignored it until second, then ignore again.

Thanks for your suggestion, agitate I will try I forgot the yeast could have fallen from suspension. It has been warmed and I will intend to just wait it out a few weeks before checking it again. I will say this is the first time I have used O2 knowing that the yeast was likely to struggle on such a high OG.

Thanks!
 
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I had a 12% RIS reach terminal gravity in 12 days with Nottingham last year.
Nottingham has the alcohol tolerance to do that.



S-33? US-05? 1.115 OG wort is definitely on the high end. And six month old (purchase date) dark malt syrup isn't going to contribute to a 'highly' fermentable wort.

I've read (and respect) the anecdotal success stories around high gravity beers and US-05. So there may be hope.

The results from a fast / forced ferment test would have been helpful - but I suspect it's too late to do one (as beer appears to have been moved to secondary and whisky was added).



I did a big starter of safale s-05, s-33 and a touch of red star Dady. Day two I added another starter and more yeast nutrient. Starting gravity was 1.115. it fermented super fast in one day to 1.062. Then it slowly crept for two weeks to 1.056.

Fermentis has a Tips & Tricks brochure (link) which includes graphs of apparent attenuation over time.

The chart (below) is for a lower gravity wort but ...

... if the relative performance is similar with higher OG worts (subject to alcohol tolerance limits)

... it's possible that S-33 (solid red line) was involved in the "super fast" phrase (then dropped out) and

... US-05 (dashed red line) was still working slowly for the remainder of the two weeks.

If you moved the beer to secondary and added whisky, that may further slow any additional fermentation.

Time will tell.



pp 28-29 of Tips & Tricks brochure.
1660051909689.png
 
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BBlack

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Nottingham has the alcohol tolerance to do that.



S-33? US-05? 1.115 OG wort is definitely on the high end. And six month old (purchase date) dark malt syrup isn't going to contribute to a 'highly' fermentable wort.

I've read (and respect) the anecdotal success stories around high gravity beers and US-05. So there may be hope.

The results from a fast / forced ferment test would have been helpful - but I suspect it's too late to do one (as beer appears to have been moved to secondary and whisky was added).





Fermentis has a Tips & Tricks brochure (link) which includes graphs of apparent attenuation over time.

The chart (below) is for a lower gravity wort but ...

... if the relative performance is similar with higher OG worts (subject to alcohol tolerance limits)

... it's possible that S-33 (solid red line) was involved in the "super fast" phrase (then dropped out) and

... US-05 (dashed red line) was still working slowly for the remainder of the two weeks.

If you moved the beer to secondary and added whisky, that may further slow any additional fermentation.

Time will tell.



pp 28-29 of Tips & Tricks brochure.
View attachment 777280
Wow great chart. I suspect you are correct the s-33 contributed to the less than 48 hour attenuation 45-50% I saw, based on this chart.
What I'm reading is a fast/forced ferment is kinda similar to what I did pulling samples and adding the new yeast to se if it does anything, and your are right that looks like it would have been better to do that before adding the whisky. .
Interesting to use the Nottingham, I haven't used that in ages. May try that next time I do this particular experiment, I've had great success with that yeast and ciders but never done in a stout.
Thanks for the information I appreciate it. I think the consensus right now is to leave it alone for a spell. Thanks
 

Kickass

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Nottingham has the alcohol tolerance to do that.
Valid point. I’ve never used s-33. So, no say.

The following is slightly less relevant for these particular circumstances since you pointed out some of the more serious challenges at play here. But, one thing I’ve learned from spending time with the mazers on the mead pages is that a well cared for yeast will typically outperform its tolerance.

Interesting to use the Nottingham
It’s a work horse in my brewery. I can’t sing it’s praises loud enough.
 

Ronald C Gregory

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Worst case scenario and your yeast for one reason or another has reached its limit. There are a couple of ways to fix this. The easiest is to agitate as others have said and let it warm up a bit, not sure what you are keeping the temp at in your fermentation room so it may want to be higher on the scale then normal. You can always repitch yeast if nothing happens over the next couple of weeks. I made an imperial stout over the winter and had issues with bottle conditioning. I ended up having to use some yeast designed for use at cask strength liquor. I wouldn't pitch a lot of it i used a quarter of a bag of dry yeast for my 3 gallon batch.

best of luck
 
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