Ethanol adds problems?

[Willy Boner]

Went to "happy hour" last night and got into conversation about the gas crisis. Buddy told me that here in Oregon, they have been adding 15% ethanol to all the gasoline since April. Then said he was told that this gas will break down like rubber things and such that we will start having problems in about a year with everything we use this gas in from lawnmowers to boats to ATV's. Anybody heard of this? Don't sound that good,THANKS Governor!

 

[BrewWench]

All I heard is that the price of tequila is going to skyrocket since so many Mexican farmers are tilling under their agave crops to grow corn for ethanol instead. This will be a huge problem in our household.

 

[k1v1116]

ethanol is a powerful solvent and will attack certain rubbers/plastics, this usually isnt a problem unless you switch from gasoline and a fuel system that is designed for it into pure ethanol. I think it takes much more than 15% to cause problems, in brewing you need different materials to handle distilled alcohol (40% by volume and up) than regular fermented stuff up to 20% or so. I think 15% is to low to cause problems. I cant see many rubber components dissolving in wine. but maybe someone with a better understanding of the chemistry will correct me.

 

[Homercidal]

Any engine designed to run gas and ethanol will be fine. For gas only cars, the ethanol will damage plastic and rubber parts at a certain percentage, but not sure what it is. Probably ok for 10-15%.

Hard to believe farmers would get a better price for ethanol than for tequila. That stuff takes years to grow before you can harvest it.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

I believe it was only 10%.

 

[dirtymike1]

The biggest problem that I've seen with ethanol is that the cars ECU needs to re-learn a fuel map to run on the mix, so when they first started adding it, many older cars were running sluggish on it til the computer caught up and re-learned the new mix.

 

[Professor Frink]

In North Carolina, I believe all gasoline is 15% ethanol.

 

[BigKahuna]

All I heard is that the price of tequila is going to skyrocket since so many Mexican farmers are tilling under their agave crops to grow corn for ethanol instead. This will be a huge problem in our household.

That's a cool thought...but the week American dollar is most of our problem with high oil prices. And don't even start to complain about food cost being because of Ethanol.

Adding Ethanol to Gasoline Lowers Prices, Iowa State Says

Analysis by researchers at Iowa State University found the growth in ethanol production has caused retail gasoline prices to be 29 cents to 40 cents per gallon lower than would otherwise have been the case.

The analysis shows the effects of ethanol on gasoline prices varies considerably across regions. The Midwest region benefits most, at 39 cents per gallon, while the Rocky Mountain region benefits by about 17 cents per gallon. The results also indicate that ethanol production has significantly reduced the profit margin of the oil refinery industry.

A 27-page .pdf version of the report released by the Center for Agricultural and Rural Development is available by clicking here.

And Furthermore....

Texas A&M: Oil, Not Corn, at the Heart of Food Price Rise

A new report by Texas A&M University’s Agricultural Policy and Research Center confirms petroleum prices are behind today’s rising food prices, the Brownfield Network reports. Iowa Farm Bureau Federation President Craig Lang is quoted in the article.

The 40-page report, titled “The Effects of Ethanol on Texas Food and Feed,” found high oil prices “are the primary driver of higher food prices and that corn prices would have risen substantially anyway as petroleum-based input costs like fertilizer went up. The report also found only a tiny correlation between higher corn prices and food price inflation, noting higher corn prices ‘do have a small effect on some food items.’”

In addition, the report acknowledged that high corn prices have hurt Texas livestock producers, but researchers found that rolling back the Renewable Fuels Standard for corn-based ethanol probably would not affect corn prices because high oil prices are driving continued ethanol industry expansion.

And if you don't believe that:

Farmers, Products Helping American Pocketbooks

While Americans are feeling the pinch of high gasoline prices, the fuel could cost as much as 5 cents to 10 cents more a gallon if it was not routinely blended with ethanol. Overall,U.S. consumers and taxpayers benefit from saving $7 billion to $14 billion in lower gasoline costs as a result of increased ethanol use, according to Terry Francl, senior economist at the American Farm Bureau Federation.

Francl said Americans will benefit in other ways, too. After farmers endured years of barely breaking even with corn priced around $2 a bushel, today’s relatively high market prices for corn, soybeans and other crops mean federal farm program payments will be reduced by at least $8 billion and possibly as much as $12 billion annually, he said. The overall gains to the economy from ethanol will more than offset any incremental food price increases associated with the production of biofuels.

These and other points about the emerging ethanol industry were shared by Francl during his presentation at a renewable fuels conference in Omaha Wednesday. The aim of the 25x’25 Alliance, the sponsor of this week’s National 25x‘25 Renewable Energy Summit, is to advance the concept that by 2025, 25 percent of U.S. energy needs will be met by resources produced by this country’s farms, forests and ranches.

And just for the record...I don't want to talk politics any more. This is about beer...and uniting a group of people with common interests...no divisive issues of the country.

 

[malkore]

I know this, my car runs poorly on 10% ethanol "Super Unleaded" gas. Less power, less miles per gallon.

 

[BigKahuna]

I am paying $4.79 for Diesel...Gas is $4.00...E-85 is $2.50
My Diesel gets 18 MPG or $0.266 per Mile.
My Gas Gets 32 MPG or $0.125 per Mile.
If a gas Engine gets 15% less miles per gallon on E-85 than Gas.
E-85 Gas Car, 27.2 MPG or $0.0919 per gallon.
If You have a Piece of crap that gets 50 % less mileage.
E-85 JUNKER...16 MPG or $0.15 per mile....but you're helping the planet!

That's NINE CETS PER GALLON! I can stand to fill up a bit more often for that.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I know this, my car runs poorly on 10% ethanol "Super Unleaded" gas. Less power, less miles per gallon.

That may not be completely attributable to ethanol. Generally, for the most efficient use of fuel, you should use the lowest octane rating possible for your engine. If your engine doesn't knock with 87 (or even lower, sold, at high elevations), use it - it's cheaper, and you may get slightly better performance.

 

[z987k]

That may not be completely attributable to ethanol. Generally, for the most efficient use of fuel, you should use the lowest octane rating possible for your engine. If your engine doesn't knock with 87 (or even lower, sold, at high elevations), use it - it's cheaper, and you may get slightly better performance.

I wish more people understood octane. This is very very true. Don't run premium unless you actually need it. Very high compression, nitrous, or lots of boost come to mind all of which few cars have.


Also we've had ethanol in our gas in Illinois since god knows when, and no one has ever had a problem with it doing anything to the lines/rubber/whatever **** someone wants to make up.

 

[Homercidal]

Yes, Premium does not always mean better. This stuff was formulated for high compression engines usually a sports car or performance engine. Sometimes it can be used to "correct" an old, knocking engine, but that's jsut covering up the engine's real problem, which should be fixed anyway. (unless it's simply not worth it for the amount of driving you do in that old car).

 

[Liquidicem]

I believe we have been running 15% ethanol in Minnesota for several years now during the summer months. I think they drop that requirement through the winter.

Correction: We run 10% currently and the governor is pushing to bump that to 20%.
Interesting story on different ethanol blends: http://www.the-land.com/currentedition/local_story_142114827.html

 

[aekdbbop]

we put some 15% in my wifes car the other day.. it ran so rough, we thought the transmission was going out.. so we took it in.

The guys said we prolly just got bad gas, or the ethanol content was too high..

i think he was right, we havent used that gas again, and it runs fine now..

 

[BrewWench]

In Montana when I lived there they sold 85.5 octane as their regular gas. You can bet I used that! Nothing that low around here.

 

[dirtymike1]

If I remember correctly, the requirement for added ethanol needs to meet a certain amount through the whole year. This means that at one fill up, the "true" content maybe only 7%, and the next one maybe more around 18%. Please stop me if I'm wrong, but I belive I heard this on NPR a few years ago. I will look to see if it true.

 

[malkore]

That may not be completely attributable to ethanol. Generally, for the most efficient use of fuel, you should use the lowest octane rating possible for your engine. If your engine doesn't knock with 87 (or even lower, sold, at high elevations), use it - it's cheaper, and you may get slightly better performance.

You're quite right, my car IS rated for 87 octane, i.e. regular unleaded around here. our 10% ethanol is all 89 or 90 octane. I guess I was too vague, but the general point was "you might help the environment, but get worse milage and less horsepower"

I learned about octane when I bought my Ninja and the dealership told me to run premium. I did til I found a forum for my bike, adn a bunch of people told me to read the manual...my Ninja is also 87 octane, and the first time I refueled with that, I noticed the bike had better performance.

 

[EdWort]

WALKING AND BEER:

A recent study found the average American walks about 900
miles per year.

Another study found Americans drink, on average, 22 gallons
of beer a year.

That means, on average, Americans get about 41 miles to the
gallon.

I believe this HBT group gets lower mileage.