Espresso Stout

[ruffiano31]

Ok, our recipe is:

8lbs. light malt extract

1 1/2 lbs chocolate malt

1 lb dark roasted malt

1 lb oats

stumptown espresso (quantitiy???)

Burton yeast (already did yeast starter)

2 lbs northern brewer hops- bittering

1lb perle- flavoring

1lb perle- aroma

Now, we are confused about a few things:

1.)when should we add the espresso? (we heard the best time is when you bottle)
2.) how much espresso should we use for 5 gallons? we want a medium espresso flavor. ( we were thinking about 15 ounces of espresso.)
3.) How and when do we steep the oats? With the other grains? How long?
4.)Would .5 to 1 lb of chocolate powder go with this stout?
5.) I was thinking it would be better to use the perle for the bittering hops, and the nothern brewer hops for flavor and aroma. Is that better?

It's a lot, but any other general thoughts about this recipe would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!!

 

[arturo7]

What's up ruff? Welcome to HBT.

I haven't done an espresso stout yet but it's on the list.

If you go the recipies forum you can find a ton of info for this beer.

 

[ruffiano31]

Will the oils in the espresso kill the head? Is there a way to reduce the oils?

 

[avaserfi]

2 lbs northern brewer hops- bittering

1lb perle- flavoring

1lb perle- aroma

Did you really mean lb here? That is way too much. for a 5 gallon batch and based on the amount of extract listed this is a 5 gallon batch...

 

[arturo7]

Sorry, I can't answer many questions for you. I have no experience with the coffee stouts except for swilling.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

ruffiano, stop re-posting this. Once is enough.

 

[Pete08]

Why not do a partial mash with the oats and other grains.

Not sure about espresso, but I just bottled an oatmeal Kona stout that used 1/2 lb of coffee grounds. After two week in the primary, I dumped 1/2 lb of Kona grounds in a 1/2gallon growler, topped off with water and let sit 24 hrs in the fridge. I poured this through a fine SS kitchen strainer into a sauce pan and heated to 160* for bug-killing purposes. Others have said this is unnecessary, may be so, but I didn't want to chance it. Don't heat it too hot, or it may get bitter. Once cooled, it went into a secondary and the stout was racked on top. The samples up through bottling day were great. Pronounced smooth coffee with the roasted barley and caramel malt coming right behind. It is good now, but will only get better as it conditions.

 

[Jester369]

Adding the espresso at secondary (if you secondary) or bottling is fine. 1 pint per 5 gallons gives a nice balanced coffee flavor, but adjust for personal taste of course. If you wait to add until the beer has conditioned before adding, you can do partial adds and taste test until it's right for you.

 

[sneakypete]

I added espresso during bottling when I made mine and it may be the best beer I have ever made.

 

[ruffiano31]

Sneakypete,

did the oils from the espresso have any effect on the head? how much espresso did you add? What do you think about the hops in our recipe? (too much?)

 

[sneakypete]

I went to starbucks and got .5 lbs of espresso and had them findgrind it for me, then I brewed that with water to make about 1 gallon of espresso, which I have an espresso machine that makes 4 oz. at a time (it took forever). I only had about 2 oz. of northern brewer hops, but I had about 1 lb of hersheys cocoa that I added (mine was a chocolate espresso stout), so I didn't want to do much to change the flavor of the chocolate in it. My first few bottles didn't have a very good head on them, but after about 4 weeks in the bottles for carbonating, they had a real good head on them.

 

[MacBruver]

1/2 lb of coffee is a lot for 5 gallons... especially something as dark as espresso roast. I would suggest 1/4 lb of coffee, cold pressed. Search around a bit here for more on that.

 

[oberon567]

1. Espresso Timing - Add the espresso after primary fermentation is done. If you choose to do a clarifying/secondary fermentation, add it then, otherwise just right into the main primary tank.
2. Espresso Quantity - I wouldnt worry about the amount of coffee in pounds, I would be considering the quantity of the liquid. Make 16oz - 24oz of cold brewed espresso, regardless of how much beans that takes, and add that.**See note below**
3. Oats - it was hinted at when an above person recommended a partial mash, but the oats do not have the enzymes to convert themselves in any useful way. If not doing a proper partial mash you still would want to soak the oats with a 1:1 ratio of 2-row, in order to let the enzymes from the 2-row convert itself as well as the oats. I would steep all of that stuff for 45 minutes at about 158 or so before bringing it to a boil and adding the remainder of ingredients. If possible, steep all of that stuff in a grain bag, not in a full brew kettle, and then after steeping as you raise the heat to bring your brew kettle to a boil g ahead and dunk/rinse the bag in water that is 175 or so (a quick and dirty sparge) and add that to your boil kettle.
4. Cocoa - Adding cocoa powder would be a decent addition to this style. A full pound seems like a lot, I would say start with half a pound. As it has a hard time dissolving in cold liquids, I would boil a small amount of water and then dissolve the cocoa powder in that, and then cool that liquid down and add it at the same time as your espresso.**See Note Below**
5. Hops - Cant help you too much with this one. But you mean ounces, right? Pellets? What are you looking at for alpha acids? And what times are you planning your flavor and aroma additions, 15 and 5? You dont really want your IBUs to be too much over 50 or so for this style, I would guess. (Again, someone correct me if they disagree). With this much dark roasted grain, as well as coffee and possibly cocoa, it is going to take a lot of hops to make a big flavor impact, and you really need to decide what you want the final impact to be. They are super important for the bittering, and I have had great imperial stouts with pronounced hop flavor, but you need to let us know what youre going for...

**Note**
True, in big stouts your flavors will take time and settle in different ways, including any coffee and cocoa flavors. But the great thing is, it is not going to hurt a beer this big to sit in the fermenting vessel. So when you add your cocoa and coffee, remember, you can always add more, you cant take it out. Add it, let it sit a day, and taste it. Sure the beer is green and as it ages the flavors will change, but it will give you a baseline for what kind of coffee or cocoa flavor to expect (they will both mellow a bit). If it seems like there isnt nearly enough, add some more. If it seems like it is dead on perfect you can either add a bit more, hoping to compensate for what may settle as it ages, or just keep it as is. If it is already too much, dont worry, just bottle her up and let her age for a while, it will be great.

Another note:
1) If you are going to add cocoa, sometimes a little bit of vanilla, either in the form of vanilla extract (easiest) or a bean (also easier but takes more time to develop the flavor) really accentuates the cocoa and coffee flavors well. Don't add too much, you dont really want your beer tasting like vanilla. But adding just a bit, maybe 2 Tablespoons or so of extract, also when adding coffee and cocoa, can add a little bit of vanilla in the nose and can elevate some of your coca and coffee flavors very nicely. Someone can correct me if my quantity is off.

 

[MacBruver]

I wouldnt worry about the amount of coffee in pounds, I would be considering the quantity of the liquid. Make 16oz - 24oz of cold brewed espresso, regardless of how much beans that takes, and add that.

I dunno... That's a bit like saying the amount of grain in a recipe has no bearing on the strength of the beer. If you add a half pound of coffee to 24 oz of water, it's going to have a lot more flavor than a quarter pound of coffee. Conversely, 1/4 pound of coffee in 16 or 24 or 32oz of cold water is not going to significantly change the flavor. Sure, a "thinner mash" as it were will give you a bit more extracted coffee flavor but not a ton.

My personal experience is that 1/4 pound of coffee, cold pressed, gives a subtle coffee note that does not completely overwhelm the beer. If you are looking for a more in-your-face coffee flavor you can go bigger.

 

[arturo7]

My personal experience is that 1/4 pound of coffee, cold pressed, gives a subtle coffee note that does not completely overwhelm the beer. If you are looking for a more in-your-face coffee flavor you can go bigger.

I'm on board with cold pressed. But how much water are you using for the 1/4 pound of bean? I've read a few articles, not necessarily beer related, that suggest double the amount of water that would be used for a hot brewed coffee.

 

[oberon567]

Sorry - I should have added that I just make make coffee as recommended for normal-strength drinking. And then I add 16 - 24 oz of normal strength cold pressed coffee. If you do a hot press then the quantity of liquid would hypothetically be the same, though the quantity of beans would change (and it might also change the flavor of the coffee, at least that's the argument).

 

[MacBruver]

I'm on board with cold pressed. But how much water are you using for the 1/4 pound of bean? I've read a few articles, not necessarily beer related, that suggest double the amount of water that would be used for a hot brewed coffee.

That is way too much water. There is a company called Filtron that sells a cold coffee brewing system, and their ratios work out to about 1-1.5 qt of water per pound of coffee- so about 2 to 3 fluid oz of water per oz weight of beans. This makes a concentrate that you use at a 1:5 ratio with water to make regular strength coffee.

Filtron Cold Water Coffee Brewing System - FREE SHIPPING

I actually went a bit over that when I did mine, using about 16oz of water for 4oz of ground beans. Using a filtron system is not necessary... either a french press, or just a glass jar and pouring it through a coffee filter at the end works great too.

 

[ruffiano31]

thanks for everybody's replies! Oberon567, we were stupid and added 4.4 oz of cocoa and 8.8 oz of brown sugar for the last 15 min of the boil. The problem was cooling it, and it seems too thick. We cool it for over an hour. I finally, because I got impatient, I added my yeast to the wort at about 78 degrees. I'm worried now it's too high, and I have it in a room at only 65 degrees, but carboy is still at 78+ degrees!. Is it the cocoa that is not letting it cool down? I put Ice packs over the carboy to cool it. On the other hand, fermentation is very active and it seems to be normal. The trub/cocoa sediment is up over 2" at the bottom. Any suggestions from anyone?
We ended up adding the Northern brewer hops (2 oz) for the bittering and 1/2 oz of perle for flavoring (20 mins) . It tastes good, I am just worried about the temperature of the wort, and the thickness of the wort. We are planning on adding the espresso at bottling time.

also, do you think I should do a secondary fermenter and if so is about a week of primary good enough?

 

[sneakypete]

I had about 2 or 3 inches of that sludge on the bottom of my fermenter. I think I had mine in a primary for about a week or so, then I transfered everything but the sludge to my secondary and let it set in there for 45 days, or until your final gravity is reached.

 

[wild]

I kegged my Espresso Imperial Stout with 17 oz. of fresh brewed espresso. The beer came out great.

 

[oberon567]

Adding the cocoa when you did is not the reason for the temperature. It is just a thick beer that wants to stay warm as the yeast undergo the exothermic process of converting sugars to alcohol. Anything you can do to cool it would be good... I suspect that you might get a little bit of hot alcohol/fusel taste as a result of pitching and fermenting warm. But, in a big beer that may not be too much of a problem... some RIS have this and it is nice in small doses, plus since the beer is so big and complex you will let it age for a while which will give some of those alcohols the chance to drop out. But if fermentation isnt done yet, go ahead and try to cool that girl down a little... Put her in an ice bath, use a wet t-shirt with a fan, do whatever you can.

I have pretty crappy cooling capabilities right now, and in the past have had to wait 4 - 6 hours to cool to a pitchable temperature, especially in my all grain batches which had no cooler water to mix with them after the boil. It is messing with my clarity as I am failing to get the cold break proteins, I know... my point is, while quicker is better and less than 15 minutes might be ideal, for apartment brewers with minimal setups, an hour is not a surprise.

You might want to go to a clarifying tank (secondary) to try and clean it up a little... But, really, I wouldnt. You will never taste yeast autolysis in this beer, thats for sure. And sitting on the cocoa muck will just give it more time to play with those flavors. I might even rouse the tank after a few days, or, if you have the space in the fermenting vessel, add the coffee right to there a few days before bottling, giving you the chance to taste it and add more at bottling if you think it needs it. I wouldnt really worry about clarity, this beer is going to be thick and black...

 

[Dog House Brew]

Wrap the fermenter with a thick beach towel and put a spray bottle in the fridge. I can keep ferments of 13 gallons down to 63-65 with a cold water mist and a small fan. With my Sumatran Stout I use a full 12 cup pot of cold pressed for 4.5 gallons of brew. I'm doing 13.50 gallons of Sumatran with 2 pots of strong cold press for the batch. I add it at bottling and use 1oz more of priming sugar. It does take a long time for this beer to carb. Not sure if it's from the coffee addition or the fact that it's a 1.095 brew. Just remember the coffee is a personal taste. I would recomend putting it in at bottling and keep adding until you fnd the taste you are looking for.

 

[ruffiano31]

thanks so much for everyone's info. I ended up racking the beer, and I added the espresso at bottling time. We used 12 oz of Stumptown coffee (locally brewed here in Portland, Or) So far, the carb is a little low, but it's no problem. I think that the cocoa powder (added during boil) and espresso we added kinda killed the creamy head. Ever espresso/coffee stout I've tried didn't have a creamy head like Guiness. anyway, we bottled it about 2 weeks ago. I tried it just now, and it's fantastic! Let me know if anyone else tries this recipe!