Espresso brewers, roasters, lovers...

[nostalgia]

Yeah, my dad always taught me to return things cleaner than they were when you got them. And I listen

Good luck!

-Joe

 

[senorswiss]

Good to see some coffee geeks here. Add one more to the list.
I got into artisan coffee about 2 years ago - started with a french press and popcorn popper for roasting, but quickly started adding other methods of brewing. Got a decent entry level espresso machine and commercial grinder on Craigslist, upgraded to a Sylvia, and switched to roasting with a bread machine and heat gun so I can do 1 pound at a time. Then I got my current grinder (Mazzer Major) used from a coffee shop and refurbished it (see Flickr).
Finally got my Izzo Alex Duetto II about 9 months ago. Upgradeitis has been on remission since then.

Now beer brewing has taken it's place...
Here's my current setup.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Awesome!!!!!!!

 

[CrankyOldLibrarian]

Roasting is awesome. My wife is big into it and has a Gene Cafe. It's the coolest doodad, ever.

I'd like to get hold of a La Pavoni lever machine just for fun

-Joe

La Pavoni really makes a great shot, but the Gaggia is way more forgiving to human error.

I've really been enjoying the Gene roaster. I picked mine up a few weeks ago, and have only run a few pounds through it. I think that I like the roasting smell more than wort while brewing.

 

[JonW]

Another coffee geek checking in!

Been roasting for about 5/6 years now. I made my own roaster based on designs found on the internet. The type is generally referred to as a "Stir Crazy / Turbo Oven" design. This thing is fantastic and you can build it for under $100. I roast 1 pound at a time. NONE of the commercial roasters I've found for under $1000 come close to this. My favorite espresso beans are the Greenline ones from Metropolis Coffee in Chicago. Greenline is the unroasted version of their Redline espresso blend.

You're all familiar with MoreBeer.com, did you know that they also have MoreCoffee.com? I sometimes get greens from them and do my own blends.

I brew on a (direct plumbed) La Spaziale S1 and grind with a La Cimbali Jr. grinder.

 

[SwampassJ]

Kind of a coffee geek, but I don't care about the frills of it. I like to try the different beans at the store with my coffee maker and my espresso maker. I just picked up a container of Bustelo Espresso grinds. Making some tonight.

 

[superfluent]

OK. I'm a espresso-geek too... Got a Rancilio Silvia that I just had to fit a PID temperature control unit into (yes, I'm one of those techno-geeks). It's just like mashing, actually, when you got the right grind dialed in, what it all boils down to is the right temperature...

H

 

[HalfPint]

Man, those set-ups are awesome. I'm still using my first espresso machine (Saeco Aroma) with the Non-Pressurized PF upgrade. It seems to do well for only costing around $200 bucks. With up-dosing I can pull 25 second shots no problem. My grinder sucks (Capresso Infinity) though. Swmbo and I like Deus, decided to get a machine because it's so much cheaper than buying the commercial stuff, but since I have OCD about everything, I really wish I would have spent A LOT more on my equipment.

Any advice on upgrades from where I'm at now? I want to eventually get a better machine, but for now, I think I really want to get a better grinder. I've really been considering a Rancillio Silvia with a Rocky grinder, but I think I may want a better machine than that.

Advice?

 

[DeusInnomen]

Certainly. We have a Rancilio Rocky grinder (doserless kind) and that purchase alone greatly improved the quality of our coffee. Even on our old machine, I can take Caribou's own Espresso blend that they use in the drinks they serve, run it through our grinder and produce better tasting shots than them. A quality and consistent grind makes a large difference. The price may seem a bit high (hell, you can get a decent espresso machine for less than that ), but you're getting a commercial-grade grinder.

 

[senorswiss]

...
Any advice on upgrades from where I'm at now? I want to eventually get a better machine, but for now, I think I really want to get a better grinder. I've really been considering a Rancillio Silvia with a Rocky grinder, but I think I may want a better machine than that.

Advice?

Sounds like you've got a good entry set up. It's very close to what I started with, and that served me well for the time I had it.

First and foremost, are you using fresh beans? Within two weeks of roast date (not 'Best By' date)? If not, that's going to be the easiest way to improve your espresso. After that, you might consider equipment upgrades.

A better grinder really is good investment for espresso. I would strongly recommend looking into a used commercial grinder if you have the space for it. They can be had for a great value, but of course you have to be somewhat careful if buying from Craigslist or Ebay (My latest came from a CL posting, and it worked out just fine). A stepless (meaning infinitely adjustable) grinder is very nice for dialing in the perfect grind, but it's not absolutely necessary - most commercial grinders, I think, have sufficiently small step sizes if not stepless. Still, go for stepless if you can. I've used both - it's worth it. A Mazzer Super Jolly is a popular choice as they are relatively easy to find used.

I'm not sure what the rules are about promoting other forums, here, so I'll just say that there are some coffee specific forums where you can generally find well-cared-for equipment.

If you don't have the room or desire for a commercial-sized grinder, I've read lots of good things about the newish Baratza Vario. However, it's pretty new, so a used one will be hard to find, and a new one will be more expensive than a good deal on a used comm. one. Maybe do some reading on that.

As for the espresso machine:
I owned a PID'd Silvia for about a year, and it is a very capable machine - a little touchy about grind, but capable of great espresso. For the retail price of a new one, with a PID, though, you can spend a little more and get lots more machine (or again something used). The main thing to consider about the silvia is that it's still a single boiler dual use (SBDU) machine, so you have the wait times between pulling a shot of espresso and steaming milk. If you only make one drink at a time (or primarily drink straight espresso), this is probably not too much of an issue. Multiple drinks can become a pain though, so consider that.

I recommend doing some reading on a coffee forum. As you can imagine there are tons of posts that will help answer your upgrade questions.

 

[senorswiss]

The price may seem a bit high (hell, you can get a decent espresso machine for less than that ), but you're getting a commercial-grade grinder.

I don't mean this to sound like it's going to, but a Rocky is emphatically not a commercial grade grinder. By home standards, it is a good grinder, but not commercial grade.

 

[DeusInnomen]

I don't mean this to sound like it's going to, but a Rocky is emphatically not a commercial grade grinder. By home standards, it is a good grinder, but not commercial grade.

Could'a sworn it was, but alright, I'm ready to believe that. Reset my measuring stick for me, then, what's commercial grade then?

 

[senorswiss]

Could'a sworn it was, but alright, I'm ready to believe that. Reset my measuring stick for me, then, what's commercial grade then?

Well, perhaps it can be used in a light commercial setting. What I meant when I typed that was it's not up for constant heavy use (as in a busy cafe), from what I've read over the last couple of years. I have not owned one, so I feel somewhat badly for making a comment like that. My knowledge of the rocky is strictly from what I have read on coffee forums, so take it only for what that's worth. I know many many people have been completely satisfied with them and that they are definitely quality grinders.

Some heavy duty commercial grinders that come to mind are: Mazzer, Mahlkonig, and Compak. There are many others...those just come to mind.

 

[HalfPint]

First and foremost, are you using fresh beans? Within two weeks of roast date (not 'Best By' date)? If not, that's going to be the easiest way to improve your espresso. After that, you might consider equipment upgrades.

When I first found out that pulling espresso wasn't as easy as I thought, I went over to Coffeegeek.com and one of the things a lot of people said was just that. With that said, I typically shop at whole foods and get my fresh roasted beans from there. I always only buy for one week at a time as well.

I would strongly recommend looking into a used commercial grinder if you have the space for it.

Thanks for the advice. I think I may look on CL for a commercial grinder, but I'm feeling lazy and may actually just buy one on ebay or something (when I do decide to buy). Also, I've actually priced those Baratza's and I really like the digital display. I've also priced the Ascaso I-mini, which I've heard is a great grinder for the $$.

I owned a PID'd Silvia for about a year, and it is a very capable machine - a little touchy about grind, but capable of great espresso. For the retail price of a new one, with a PID, though, you can spend a little more and get lots more machine (or again something used).

So what type of machine do you think would be a good pick? I know you say for more I can get a better machine, but are you talking about a rocket more?

Thanks for all of the advice,
Jacob

 

[DeusInnomen]

Well, perhaps it can be used in a light commercial setting. What I meant when I typed that was it's not up for constant heavy use (as in a busy cafe), from what I've read over the last couple of years. I have not owned one, so I feel somewhat badly for making a comment like that. My knowledge of the rocky is strictly from what I have read on coffee forums, so take it only for what that's worth. I know many many people have been completely satisfied with them and that they are definitely quality grinders.

Some heavy duty commercial grinders that come to mind are: Mazzer, Mahlkonig, and Compak. There are many others...those just come to mind.

Nah, no worries man, I'm capable of taking criticism if I'm wrong or disagreed with. It's definitely marked as a commercial-grade device, but on closer inspection it's mostly the burrs that are referenced as such. In either case, Mazzer definitely is something I'd pick up for a cafe, that's for sure.

 

[senorswiss]

Sounds like you've already done quite a bit of reading, so that's good (Coffee Geek is the forum I had in mind).

So what type of machine do you think would be a good pick? I know you say for more I can get a better machine, but are you talking about a rocket more?

Perhaps I also should have said you can get almost as nice of a machine for a bit less money. From what I have learned (reading, not owning), something like a Gaggia will give you similar performance to the silvia for less money. Part of this is b/c the silvia is built like a tank and housed in brushed stainless.

If prices haven't changed lately, a new silvia and PID will set you back something like $850, which is too much for that machine, I feel. If you can find a great deal on one (as I did), then by all means, it's a great machine with a waning cult-like following (meaning tons of info about modding or fixing it). The PID is not necessary, but it makes consistency a lot easier. You can read about temperature surfing, otherwise.

Once you're near $1000, you start to get into the range of affording an HX (Heat Exchanger) machine. The Salvatore One Black comes to mind as being around $1000...I think they increased the price to $1100, though a while back. An HX will allow you to pull a shot and steam without the wait time associated with a single boiler machine. So will a Double Boiler machine, but those get even more expensive. Again, buying used can save you a bunch of money; you've just got to be sure it has been well-maintained.

I think you're best off doing a lot of reading about the various choices / experiences over at CG or elsewhere and see what you feel matches your needs / budget. From the sounds of things, you likely have already been doing this. Have fun!

 

[JonW]

Sounds like you've already done quite a bit of reading, so that's good (Coffee Geek is the forum I had in mind).

Perhaps I also should have said you can get almost as nice of a machine for a bit less money. From what I have learned (reading, not owning), something like a Gaggia will give you similar performance to the silvia for less money. Part of this is b/c the silvia is built like a tank and housed in brushed stainless.

If prices haven't changed lately, a new silvia and PID will set you back something like $850, which is too much for that machine, I feel. If you can find a great deal on one (as I did), then by all means, it's a great machine with a waning cult-like following (meaning tons of info about modding or fixing it). The PID is not necessary, but it makes consistency a lot easier. You can read about temperature surfing, otherwise.

Once you're near $1000, you start to get into the range of affording an HX (Heat Exchanger) machine. The Salvatore One Black comes to mind as being around $1000...I think they increased the price to $1100, though a while back. An HX will allow you to pull a shot and steam without the wait time associated with a single boiler machine. So will a Double Boiler machine, but those get even more expensive. Again, buying used can save you a bunch of money; you've just got to be sure it has been well-maintained.

I think you're best off doing a lot of reading about the various choices / experiences over at CG or elsewhere and see what you feel matches your needs / budget. From the sounds of things, you likely have already been doing this. Have fun!

Some good suggestions here, but I've had a couple of Gaggia's and while they are OK, they're not the caliber of a Silvia/PID. They also run out of steam quick (although the Silvia can also since it is a single boiler). Both he Rocky grinder and the Gaggia MDF grinder are very usable home grinders. Neither are considered professional grade, but they're about the only (prosumer) ones in the $300 price range that can grind espresso adequately. All the professional ones go up in price from there.

Do your research for what is important to you. Just like building an all grain setup, there are choices to make that will affect your brew (espresso). Interested in a HX style machine? Then learn the terms: water dance, temp surfing and cooling flush - they'll rule your shots. Do you do a lot of milk based drinks (especially for dinners or company)? Then look for a dual boiler with fast recovery times. Good dual boiler machines let you pull shots and steam simultaneously (but will likely require a dedicated 20 AMP circuit) and can do it with no recovery times.

You can spend $200 or $2000 (or more) for a machine. Only your research and what's important to you can dictate what to get.

 

[HalfPint]

Thanks Jon and Senor.

I have done a lot of research about machines and grinders and read around on coffeegeek.com, but it's still nice to hear others opinions on things.

I do temp surf with my current machine ALWAYS and don't typically make milk based drinks unless swmbo wants one. I think when I first got my machine I offered to make drinks for company and since then, I don't do it anymore (takes too much dang time). I know SeattleCoffeeGear.com has a Rocky/Silvia package for around $1000 or so I think http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/Rancilio-Silvia-and-Grinder-Package-p/scg14032-03.htm. I think with the money I can get for my current machine, it really wont break the bank that bad. I believe that I'll keep my current grinder simply because it's good for french press and my Technivorm that I'll get some day (also good to have separate grinders for espresso and drip/press).

Overall, I'll continue to dream until then,
Jacob

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I am dreaming about picking up a Silvia and a Rocky for the office. Not sure if it can happen, but I am going to try to get some help from Christmas gift exchanges and hope for some luck.

Also, I have been drinking machiatos lately and those are great.

 

[CrankyOldLibrarian]

I am dreaming about picking up a Silvia and a Rocky for the office. Not sure if it can happen, but I am going to try to get some help from Christmas gift exchanges and hope for some luck.

Also, I have been drinking machiatos lately and those are great.

Check craigslist. I picked up an older Silva & a Rocky for $200 a few weeks ago. The Silva needs a new gasket, but that is a simple repair.

 

[JonW]

Check craigslist. I picked up an older Silva & a Rocky for $200 a few weeks ago. The Silva needs a new gasket, but that is a simple repair.

That's a huge score for that combo!