Erdinger Dunkle (Dunkelweizen) Clone

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Have a few brews (Partial Mash) under my belt and the last two Iv done have come out very well, these were my own take on Blue Moon were I slightly altered an existing recipe I found.

I really enjoy Erdinger Dunkle so want to do my own version of this for my next brew. Iv used some existing recipes as inspiration and selected some of my own grains.

What I can’t work out is why my FG is coming out so low in Brewers Friend.

Target for this style is 1.010 - 1.014 and mine is coming out at 1.007 and nothing I change seems to alter this.

Obviously this is the first time Iv strayed from the safe path of a tried and tested recipe so was hoping for some help from this forum.

What changes should I make to bring the FG upto style guide ?

Any recommendations or alterations to my planned recipe ?

19L Batch

Wheat DME (1.5 kg)
Munich DME (1.5 kg) or Weyermann Munich II (Dark)

Weyermann Dark Wheat Malt (1 kg)
Weyermann Chocolate Wheat (0.25 kg)
Weyermann CaraWheat (0.25 kg)

Hops - Mittlefruh
Yeast - WB06
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Dude, if you want to try and work up this recipe im all in. Ive tried one recipe(all grain) i thought it would be and it was nowhere close to it. Since then ive been reading up on it and have come across wheat, pils, chocolate, melanoidin with wlp320 yeast to not have the banana most hefes have. Im down for this journey as i think its the best beer ive ever had.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Also add carapils or melanoidin to up the final gravity.
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Dude, if you want to try and work up this recipe im all in. Ive tried one recipe(all grain) i thought it would be and it was nowhere close to it. Since then ive been reading up on it and have come across wheat, pils, chocolate, melanoidin with wlp320 yeast to not have the banana most hefes have. Im down for this journey as i think its the best beer ive ever had.
from what Iv read it’s should be minimum 50% Wheat grains and 30% Munich grains but that’s for the traditional Dunkle style.
I imagine the Erdinger version been a commercial version it differs from the traditional a fair bit.

what was the recipe you tried ?
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Oh god it was:

5.8 lbs wheat
3.3 lbs munich
8 oz carafa 2
8 oz caramel 40
8 oz caramel 120
2 oz roasted barley

This made a type of Guinness beer vs erdinger, thats why im going with a clone someone did on here that said it was pretty close which is:

4.5 lbs pils
4.5 wheat
6 oz chocolate
1 lb melanoidin.

If i could muster up the courage to do a decoction i would leave out the melanoidin but ill try this one first. Also wlp320 is the least banana-y yeast that is still a hefe yeast, tried with wlp 300 and fermented at 61-62 and still had that banana aroma.
 

monkeymath

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
334
Reaction score
305
Do not use WB-06 for Hefeweizen. It's not at all appropriate, no matter what the packaging says.

From what I've read, the yeast cannot be harvested from the bottle. The flavour of Erdinger seems different from that procuded by the classic homebrew strains - I find it quite fruity and tart, with less banana. It's not favourite.

Legally, Weißbier must contain at least 50% wheat malt. But there's no reason to feel bound by that.
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Do not use WB-06 for Hefeweizen. It's not at all appropriate, no matter what the packaging says.

From what I've read, the yeast cannot be harvested from the bottle. The flavour of Erdinger seems different from that procuded by the classic homebrew strains - I find it quite fruity and tart, with less banana. It's not favourite.

Legally, Weißbier must contain at least 50% wheat malt. But there's no reason to feel bound by that.
would you agree with deuc224 that WLP320 would be the most appropriate?
 

monkeymath

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
334
Reaction score
305
would you agree with deuc224 that WLP320 would be the most appropriate?
I've never tried that yeast (and based on the descriptions I'm unlikely to do so in the future). Couldn't find too much info about it, but I think Erdinger is quite fruity (feel free to disagree), and I'm not sure if WLP320 brings that to the table?
Haven't had one in a while, though, so maybe I'm just not the right person to ask.

My mum loves Erdinger Dunkel, by the way. The only beer she ever drinks.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185

^^^^ this is what ive read so far on it. I was thinking of WLP 380 but erdinger dunkel doesnt have much clove taste either. WLP 300 is described as having suppressed banana and clove at 62F fermentation, i did it at 61-62 on glycol and still had some banana that has faded a bit over time but still hints are there. That is why wlp 320 is my next one to try even though its an american hefe yeast.
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Changing yeast to WLP320 resulted in me having the opposite problem (to WB-06) in regards to the FG which was then too high but increasing the batch size slightly brought that down.

So after playing about with BrewerFriend and and doing abit more reading Iv come up with the following:

20L Batch Partial Mash

Yeast - WLP320
Hops - Hallertau Mittlefruh (32g 60 min boil)

this gives 10.3 IBU, right at the bottom end of the style guide range 10-18 IBU so should be little hop influence.

Base Extract:
1.4kg Wheat DME
0.9kg Munich DME

Grains:
0.18kg Weyermann ChocWheat (4.8%)
0.3kg Weyermann CaraWheat (7.9%)
0.5kg Weyermann Dark Wheat
0.5kg Weyermann Munich II Dark

this bring be out at:
37% Munich Malt (recommended min 30%)
63 % Wheat Malt (recommended min 50%)

OG 1.051 (Style 1.044 - 1.056)
FG 1.013 (Style 1.010 - 1.014)
ABV 5%

Mash @ 68 C
Ferment @ 19-20 C (recommended 18-21)

Iv picked out Dark Wheat and Munich II to tailor the flavour on top of the DME base (that’s my theory anyway), if I had an all grain setup I’d use these in place of the DME in full amounts.

The ChocWheat and CaraWheat Iv picked to get the Roasted/Choclate/Caramel flavours that I think come through in the original. There is a little subtle hint of dark fruit in the original not sure if that will come through with these grains but hopefully the caramel flavour will.

Thoughts/Suggestions ?

Bottling my last brew in a week so looking to get this one done in the next 2 weeks.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
I know erdinger says the FG is lower but if you notice it has a full body and sweeter so having a highish finishing graavity wont be too bad.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Lets keep this alive ladies and gentlemen. We need to conquer this one.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Im gonna start growing yeast today on the wlp 320 to get it ready for Wednesday. I took the day off to watch godzilla so ill brew early and try the recipe i posted earlier and let you know how it comes out. I bought a case of erdinger dunkles and i do taste more carafa 2 than chocolate malt i must admit.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Also I dont wanna hear anything about taking the day off for godzilla lol, I need to take time off and what better reason than a good movie lol.
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
WLP320 starter is on and in the Ferm Fridge at 21*C ready for brewing tomorrow night. Not the best date on the yeast (18/04) so hopefully a little extra time will do it good.

First time using liquid yeast and doing a starter. Should I leave it stirring right upto using it or should it have a rest period before been added for fermentation ?
C86F334E-6213-4AD9-A82B-C2551C838482.jpeg
 

madscientist451

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
4,893
Reaction score
2,577
Location
Bedford
Lets keep this alive ladies and gentlemen. We need to conquer this one.
I think its been done:

 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Brewed last night only slight change was reduced the Chocolate Wheat down to 150g.

Cocked it up at the final hurdle though I think.

Didn’t get the wort cooled low enough before pitching. Yeast went in at 25*C was too late as the wort was already siphoned into the Carboy.

It did cool fairly quick once it went into the Ferm Fridge though, see how it turns out in 2 weeks. Was slightly over the planned OG aswel it came out at 1.058.

C11540BA-3317-4DA4-B755-66F5054C64E1.jpeg
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
433696C5-A774-4027-B322-08C1420D1D7D.jpeg


invested in some glasses and bottles of the original aswel so will be able to see what it’s like side by side
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Ill run my batch this weekend as well. Ill run up some wlp 320 and multiply it out and run my test batch as well. Will have to hit the up the $pecs for some erdinger to compare it to.

Mine is gonna be the :

4 lbs pils
4 lbs wheat
6 oz chocolate
1 lb melanoidin

Leaving out the munich and subbing the melanoidin to give the fake decoction a try.
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Was worried about the fermentation after pitching the yeast too hot, especially as there was some serious smell of banana throughout fermentation. However seem to have dodged the bullet dosnt seem to have any off tastes and hit 1.016 final gravity.

Bottling this weekend but won’t get to have a proper taste once it’s conditioned as I’m also due to go away for work for 7 weeks 👎🏻
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Looks the part, im getting mine done his weekend after the NEIPA comes out the fermenter.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Finally getting around to this one tomorrow night, i have to conquer this beer. Any news on those who have done it?
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Finally getting around to this one tomorrow night, i have to conquer this beer. Any news on those who have done it?
I havnt tried it yet still working away, but the feedback Iv had from my dad is that it’s spot on for an Erdinger dunkel a hint more chocolate’y could maybe dial that back abit on the next batch as will definitely be brewing it again.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
My grains are grinded and yeast grown and water fixed for the brewday. Im going all in tomorrow and i pray this is the one, I would love to get close to the famous erdinger, it really is my favorite beer ive tried to date. Wish me luck yall.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Fermentation seems to be done so ill give it a couple days at higher temp for the yeast to finish up the D. Ill put it on carbonation for 10 days to condition like i do with the other hefe and ill try it. So 12 days from now is the day! Im excited!
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Got around last night to kegging this up and placing it on carbonation and will let it condition for 10 days, keeping my fingers crossed for this one.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Tried the dunkel and its only about 60% there, missing the sweetness and breadiness of the original. This one is closer than ive been before so ill keep trying it until i get it but this isnt it, the chocolate malt is spot on with the flavor instead of the carafa 2 i used, maybe some caramel malt 120 would give it a little help. Onward with the journey.
 
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
Tried the dunkel and its only about 60% there, missing the sweetness and breadiness of the original. This one is closer than ive been before so ill keep trying it until i get it but this isnt it, the chocolate malt is spot on with the flavor instead of the carafa 2 i used, maybe some caramel malt 120 would give it a little help. Onward with the journey.
I have tried mine after it’s had 8 weeks bottle conditioning and it seems pretty good. I have ordered some Erdinger to try it side by side (drank all the ones I ordered when I brewed it 😅)
 
Last edited:
OP
M

mtom1991

Active Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
7
C5B3971A-820A-4E7A-84E9-C24D0F6F928F.jpeg


Had chance for my first proper sample and think it is close.

There’s a hint of a flavour that I can’t put my finger on but I suspect this was from the initial fermentation temp f**k up, it’s not unpleasant though.

Will be brewing this again at some point this year but substituting the Malt Extract out as I now have the equipment for All Grain.
 

deuc224

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
384
Reaction score
185
Mtom, at day 10 the beer was really really good. But its off of erdinger a bit. I will brew this with a few mods next time and post them up, im definitely gonna kick this keg soon lol.
 
Top