Equipment questions for 3 gallons batches

[koubiak]

Hi guys,

I have been lurking on HBT for almost 2 years now and I finally need to get some advises to set myself up. I have been brewing with a friend of mine in NC for more than a year now (mainly partial mash). And since I moved in San Francisco a month ago and I need to set up my equipment from scratch again.

I am considering going all-grain but doing mostly 3 Gallons batches. I used to split our 5 Gallons batches in 2 before and I was happy with the quantity. I am thinking that I will mainly do single 3 Gallons batches or Partygeil (2 or 3) so I will first get 3 gallons fermenter vessels. I am thinking latter to get a 6 Gallons carboy as primary to do split batches (of medium to low gravity beer like splitting a wit with different fruit in the secondary). I mainly want to brew often and don't want to have to many bottle on my hands.

So my concerns : are mainly what size mash-tun and kettle should I get.

I am looking at the the 8.5 megapot with spigot. It seems to be what I am looking for or will it be too small when doing a 6 gallons batch full boil? Or will it be too large for a 3 Gallons FB and I will have evaporation problem? I know that the motto here is buy always bigger, so should I
Also is it a good idea to buy a large stock pot and convert it or should I just spend the money.

For the mash-tum I am thinking of converting a cooler. Should I stick to a 5 Gallons one or I am better off with a 10 Gallons? I read the sticky and it seems that 10 Gallons might be the safest bet. I will wait a bit before getting a hot liquor tank for sparging.

For boiling I have a gas stove which should be fine for 3 gallons I will test for 6 Gallons later.

I have question about cooling. I don't think I have a hose outlet in my apartment. Does anyone as a trick to use a copper coil in this situation? Or will I need to stick to an Ice bath?

For the fermentation vessels I am thinking of a 3 gallons plastic carboy ( http://www.eckraus.com/plastic-3-gallon-carboy.html ) Any feedbacks on them?

I am thinking of fermenting in my garage for the moment. (I am not going to lager at first) Are the temperature stable enough in SF for that or should I build a fermentation Chamber?

Still about SF, any advice for a brew club or a LHBS? I will try to visit the one in Richmond next week-end.

Cheers and brew strong

 

[audger]

if you are doing batches where you expect to end up with 3 gallon post-fermentation, you will need 5 gallon carboys. 6 gallon wouldnt hurt either, and 6's are sometimes available on amazon.com for $30-35 shpped.

i would also suggest the 10 gallon cooler for the mash tun. 5 gallons might work, but the cost difference is only a few bucks and its much easier having extra space to work with.

if you want 3 finished gallons, you should probably shoot for 3.5 gallons at the end of the boil. so you will be starting with 4.5-5 gallons. you can boil that amount in an 8.5 gallon pot without much trouble.

 

[erikpete18]

Yeah, you'll definitely want to go with at least 5 gal fermenters for your 3 gal batches. If you figure you might lose 0.5 gal to trub, that puts you at 3.5gal into the fermenter, and then you're gonna need plenty of room for krausen. For the 6 gal you're really going to be pushing even a 6.5 gal fermenter, so you might want to stick with 5 gal carboys and split the 6 gal batches going into 5 gal primary carboys.

For the mashtun, go with the 10 gal. A 3 gal batch won't fill up much, but it will give you plenty of room to move up to 6 gal batches. I've heard of people cutting a circle of insulation and using it to set on smaller mashes in the 10gal mash tun to cut down on heat loss to the airspace, so something to consider if you start losing too much heat on your 3 gal batches.

Again, since it sounds like you're thinking about doing 6 gal batches at least at some point, I'd get a pot that can handle that. The only reason to go with a smaller pot is if your stove can't boil a 6 gal batch, you don't want to/can't upgrade to propane, and you're planning on boiling in 2 pots for the 6 gal batches. As far as pots, for a 6 gal batch you might start with about 8 gal of wort, so an 8.5 gal pot will be pushing it. Use some fermcap to keep boilovers down. Also, just FYI, Adventures in Homebrewing has a decent 9 gal pot.

No idea on San Fran weather, but you'll probably at least want to do a swamp cooler to keep temps fairly steady. For chilling, most ICs come with a garden hose end and you can buy an adapter at most big home improvement stores to connect it to your faucet.

 

[Jdm5209]

...
I have question about cooling. I don't think I have a hose outlet in my apartment. Does anyone as a trick to use a copper coil in this situation? Or will I need to stick to an Ice bath?
...

No, they sell adapters to go from kitchen sink to garden hose fittings.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002FYIVBO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=905
Or I think I got mine at HD or lowes for about the same price as Austin Hombrew. They're for portable dishwashers I think.

 

[koubiak]

Thanks for all the useful info.

I will order the faucet adapter.

As for the batch size, the rational was that I want to use the 3 gallons garboy as primary (with blow-off tube). Is this realistic? I think it will be easier for me to do temp control with smaller vessels.

General question about batch size, I always thought that batch size was related to the volume introduced in primary. am I wrong?

 

[audger]

a 3 gallon carboy will usually be 3 full gallons up to the very top. so even if you put 2.5 gallons into it, you only have 2-4 inches of space. with a blowoff tube, you are going to be blowing all the top-fermenting yeast in the krausen out of the tube and essentially underpitching your beer. this can cause stalled fermentation or low attenuation.

if you want 3 finished gallons of beer, you need a 5 gallon carboy. if you want a 3 gallon carboy, you can only ferment 1.5-2 gallons at a time in it. no way around this really.

usually when you say "3 gallon batch" that means 3 finished gallons that you can drink, excluding all losses. meaning, 3 full gallons going into bottles or kegs. you usually loose half a gallon in the primary with the yeast cake, you normally leave some in the boil kettle, etc... so a "3 gallon batch" would need to be more like 3.75 to 4 gallons after the boil is done, and 3.5 or so gallons pre-fermentation.

if you want 3 finished gallons, but only use 3 gallon fermentors, you could split it- 1.5gallons in two fermentors.

 

[koubiak]

Ok thanks for the information!

I will look into larger vessels and see how to change my strategy.

 

[koubiak]

Hi, I am making progress for my order list

I am still debating whether I want or not to stick to 3 gallon fermenter and then I remember of the burton blow-off technique (http://beersmith.com/blog/2009/10/10/better-beer-with-the-burton-union-blow-off-method/) any counter indication?

 

[koubiak]

So I pre-ordered my brew pot from adventure. I can't wait to get it.

I stopped by my LHBS to discuss what was the best option given my plan and so I settle for a bucket as primary (my guess will be 3.5 gallons) and a glass 3Gallon carboy for secondary. When I get additional hardware I will get plastic carboy but they did not have any.

For the mash-tum I am going to get a conversion kit and order the cooler from walmart. Should I get a false bottom or a bazooka screen. I read very different comment on each. I think that I will batch sparge so the screen should be fine.

I still need to order my chiller but since the kettle will take time I am in no-rush.

I am looking forward to my belgium-wit

 

[seefish]

Another option would be to use the kettle as the mash tun. Maybe try the Brew in a Bag technique before you commit to buying and converting a cooler.

 

[koubiak]

yes I was considering that too for the first couple of batches.

So I would do it with no sparge? I just increase the temp a 170 and drain the grain?

 

[seefish]

I believe that is the way to go, but take a look at the forums, just like any other technique there are bunches of ways to do it. There are some biab brewers that do sparge by dunking the grain in a separate container or sprinkling water over the grain.

 

[bchurch]

I think you will be pleased with your pot. I have the same one and the picture on the website doesn't do it justice, and the price is awesome.

 

[DSmith]

I do 3.5 gallon end-of-boil batches. Originally built a 5 gallon cooler mash tun to do partial mashes but decided doing smaller volume all-grain was for me and I can keep the entire process in the kitchen. I get 36 bottles of ale and 32 bottles of lager because of the transfer loss. I also dump everything from the boil kettle into the carboy to reduce losses.

Here's my equipment list:
5 Gallon Mash Tun with braid or bazooka screen - batch sparge.

2" Thick syrofoam disk wrapped in foil/plastic wrap to help with heat loss inserted before the lid is on. Wrap cooler in a blanket.

5 gallon boil kettle minimum (my boil-off rate is 5/8 gallon/hour so a 90 minute boil is the absolute max volume (4.4 gal) that can be boiled if watched really careful. The pot in that pic looks great.

Stainless pots for sparge water and mashout water (look at goodwill/resale shops for these pots).

I choose a 5 gallon carboy with blowoff tube, 3 gallon carboy for lagering.

Software for recipe scaling.

NOTE
Besides equipment, I think a some reading in the Brewing Science forum on the water primer will help your first AG batch, not knowing your water. It will also required a fine scale, CaCl2 & acidulated malt.

 

[audger]

as long as you are filtering your water, i would probably ignore water chemistry for now. for small batches, buy a few gallons of spring or filtered water from walmart for 60 cents each. if you have well water, its often good enough to use right out of the tap. if you have city water, you want to run it thru a charcoal filter to remove chlorine(and possibly do some other things to remove chloramine, if present). other than that, dont worry about exact water chemistry untill you have your main procedure down and want to fine tune.

 

[DSmith]

Agreed with buying jugs labeled Spring water for the first batch and skip and salt additions (CaCl2 & CaSO4), there's advantages to think about RO or tap water in the future.

I also think campden tables are a must and easy to break up and toss in the water to ensure no chlorine/chloramine, even with purchased water. 1 tablet = 20 gallons of water treated and rough estimated is good enough.

I'd still advocate using an acidulated malt based on the Brewing Science primer correct for mash pH.

Water and pH are just as important for smaller batches.

 

[koubiak]

Thanks for all the information. It seems that I am about right on the equipment and I already a fine scale (<1gr precision) I still need to get a wort chiller and a yeast starter kit.

The pot indeed looks great thanks for the pics.

As for the water profile and balancing I will ask my LHBS what they recommend.