Epic Fail

[redarmy990]

Hi guys
Needing some help if possible please
I have been fermenting a chocolate milk stout.it has been fermenting for 3 weeks was right on final hydrometer check on Thursday night.
On Friday started to cold crash but here's the epic fail. We went to the beech over the weekend and just got back. And my Stout has drunk my star San from the blow off container. There was around quarter of a gallon of water/star San gone it my brew.

So with no solution in the blow off container will the stout have a infection
And with that much star san solution in the beer will it need throwing

This was a 5 gallon batch.

Thanks
Dean

 

[day_trippr]

A quart of Star San/water mix in five gallons of beer may not even be noticeable, never mind harmful in any way (it isn't).
I would not toss that stout.
Instead, each time you savor a pour, remind yourself "Always Switch To An S-Lock Before Cold Crashing", so it'll stick

Who knows wrt infection. Probably unlikely, but best to not let this batch hang around long enough to find out...

Cheers!

 

[triethylborane]

Blowtorch? Is that your air lock? If so, probably doesnt matter that it was without fluid, as it is unlikely an infection would occur given fermentation was, determined by you, to be complete.

As for the starsan entering the beer, some have tried to siphon off the beer "below" the starsan. I dont know how the two separate or whether this is possible, there are some threads on this if you do a search. Given the volume, might be drinkable anyway.

 

[redarmy990]

A quart of Star San/water mix in five gallons of beer may not even be noticeable, never mind harmful in any way (it isn't).
I would not toss that stout.
Instead, each time you savor a pour, remind yourself "Always Switch To An S-Lock Before Cold Crashing", so it'll stick

Who knows wrt infection. Probably unlikely, but best to not let this batch hang around long enough to find out...

Cheers!

Here lies my 2nd problem at the moment i cannot get a sLock on there as im currently using the Kegerator as a fermentation chamber, I have a catalyst fermentor and because of the height of bucket and the stand have no room for the airlock, i only just manged to get a blow off tube in there.

 

[redarmy990]

Blowtorch? Is that your air lock? If so, probably doesnt matter that it was without fluid, as it is unlikely an infection would occur given fermentation was, determined by you, to be complete.

The predictive text did me on this one lol

 

[redarmy990]

As for the starsan entering the beer, some have tried to siphon off the beer "below" the starsan. I dont know how the two separate or whether this is possible, there are some threads on this if you do a search. Given the volume, might be drinkable anyway.[/QUOTE]\

It does look like they have separated, and with the Catylist fementor i can rack from the bottom, so hopefully it will be good

 

[flars]

Here lies my 2nd problem at the moment i cannot get a sLock on there as im currently using the Kegerator as a fermentation chamber, I have a catalyst fermentor and because of the height of bucket and the stand have no room for the airlock, i only just manged to get a blow off tube in there.

Use a cover of sanitized aluminum foil.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

It only takes an inch of starsan in a cup to seal off your beer. If that is a half cup worth, it isn’t enough to get into your beer. For my blowoff I use a couple ounces of whatever the cheapest alcohol I have around is. I did have some suck back about 2 batches ago, but a few drops of Captain Morgans was undetectable in a gallon of amber ale.

 

[ba-brewer]

Here lies my 2nd problem at the moment i cannot get a sLock on there as im currently using the Kegerator as a fermentation chamber, I have a catalyst fermentor and because of the height of bucket and the stand have no room for the airlock, i only just manged to get a blow off tube in there.

If the tube is flexible enough you can either bend it to form a S or just make a loop and put some starsan it in the tube.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I can't think of a reason to cold crash a stout honestly.

 

[JohnSand]

I have not had the suck back problem, so can't answer the starsan question.
I don't think you have to worry about infection. When I use a blow-off, the tube doesn't go into the sanitizer at all, just hangs above it. In order to cause infection, a contaminant would have to fall into the bottle, miss the starsan, (yours was probably still wet) get sucked up the tube (yours was wet with starsan) and fall into your brew. Very unlikely.

 

[kh54s10]

Someone sells a system for this problem. It consists of 2 mason jars connected by tubing and an airlock. If there is any suck back it just moves Starsan from one jar to the other. It is impossible to suck the Starsan into the fermenter.

Also whenever you use a blow-off tube, put the end in a small cup of Starsan with just enough depth to keep the end of the tube submerged. Put that in a larger container in case of overflow.

Your Stout is now diluted some but it is safe to drink.

I also wonder the real need to cold crash a Stout.

In 6 1/2 years I have cold crashed only one beer. An it was not really any more clear than others.

 

[aprichman]

It only takes an inch of starsan in a cup to seal off your beer. If that is a half cup worth, it isn’t enough to get into your beer. For my blowoff I use a couple ounces of whatever the cheapest alcohol I have around is. I did have some suck back about 2 batches ago, but a few drops of Captain Morgans was undetectable in a gallon of amber ale.

Alcohol needs to be at 70% to be an effective sanitizer.

 

[redarmy990]

I also wonder the real need to cold crash a Stout.

In 6 1/2 years I have cold crashed only one beer. An it was not really any more clear than others.

The cold crash was intentionally unintentional

I am a apartment brewer so struggle with space for a fermentation chamber, I was using my Kegerator but it wasn't plugged in, Was holding at 66 degrees during fermentation, at the weekend whilst we were away the temps in these parts plummeted and so did my beer temp.Causing the suck back

This is part of the learning curve and only my 3rd all grain brew,
The mix of water /star san is sitting nicely on top of the stout so hopefully i can rack most of the brew off.

The last brew i cold crashed but with the kegerator running and it was great, And as this brew had a lot of trub from the cocoa powder just wanted to try and drop as much out of suspension as possible

 

[passedpawn]

I cold crash every single beer. I like them clear, and quickly clear. You can taste yeast in a stout, you can detect a muddy mouthfeel in a stout, and you can even use your eyes to see the clarity in a stout (if you're really looking for it). All of that will go away in a few weeks anyway, especially in the keg, but it's so easy for me to crash there's not reason not to.

Anyway, I had about a quart of starsan sucked back into an IPA and it had a very soapy taste - had to dump. Might not have been the starsan at all, and I realize that starsan doesn't taste like soap, but there it was.

Regarding infection, seriously doubt it. Once wort becomes beer, it's pretty hard to infect it. Is it safe to drink? Sure. So, just try it and if there's no noticeable defect, enjoy.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Alcohol needs to be at 70% to be an effective sanitizer.

Alcohol above 70% is an effective disinfectant, which is a level above sanitizer. For an airlock it is just fine. If alcohol was such a bad sanitizer it wouldn’t keep so well after opening it. I agree that using it to rinse a fermentor is a recipe for probably a pretty ugly infection, because some bacteria love it. So a wash of alcohol would probably feed that kind of bacteria. Prolonged exposure to alcohol levels above 20% will certainly inhibit an probably kill most of the things that will hurt your beer.

 

[jdonley]

when I cold crash beers i leave them in the primary and just switch out the bung that has a hole in it for whatever youre using to allow the co2 to escape (blow off tube S-lock) and replace it with a solid bung of the same size

 

[JohnSand]

Red, it sounds like you're in good shape. You can probably rack from under the starsan, and it's presence on top will have prevented any possible infection.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Try this next time you need a blowoff system.
Use approx 8 oz of Starsan in the bottom of a 1/2 gal milk jug, and stick your (diagonally-cut) tube down to the bottom just enough to bubble.
Now you have 56oz of space to catch and hold blow-off foam (important), and just 8oz of starsan in the event of suck-back. Also 3-4 feet of 1/2 tubing can hold 8oz, so your risk of sucking sanitizer into the fermenter is practically none.

 

[The_Bishop]

when I cold crash beers i leave them in the primary and just switch out the bung that has a hole in it for whatever youre using to allow the co2 to escape (blow off tube S-lock) and replace it with a solid bung of the same size

That sounds like a great way to implode a fermenter, especially if it's glass.

 

[aprichman]

Alcohol above 70% is an effective disinfectant, which is a level above sanitizer. For an airlock it is just fine. If alcohol was such a bad sanitizer it wouldn’t keep so well after opening it. I agree that using it to rinse a fermentor is a recipe for probably a pretty ugly infection, because some bacteria love it. So a wash of alcohol would probably feed that kind of bacteria. Prolonged exposure to alcohol levels above 20% will certainly inhibit an probably kill most of the things that will hurt your beer.

A lot of bacteria can survive but not reproduce in alcohol below 70%. That's why it's a potential problem if you get suck back into your beer which is a pretty friendly environment for several spoilage organisms. A good number of people use distilled water in their air locks and have no problems, but using anything but starsan in an airlock is not a best practice.

 

[jdonley]

That sounds like a great way to implode a fermenter, especially if it's glass.

Always glass, and have never had an issue

 

[kh54s10]

Always glass, and have never had an issue

I shouldn't but I will..... YET! and if you never do, count yourself lucky.

 

[The_Bishop]

Always glass, and have never had an issue

Then your bung isn't sealing all the way.

 

[jdonley]

Then your bung isn't sealing all the way.

It doesn't just slip out. I have to pry it out. And when i do peel it away you can hear a loud suction noise.

 

[J-T]

It doesn't just slip out. I have to pry it out. And when i do peel it away you can hear a loud suction noise.

That sounds like a great way to implode a fermenter, especially if it's glass.

Not sure that I agree the pressure is anywhere near enough to implode the glass. I've never been the least bit concerned about tossing any warm, capped beverage into a refrigerator... granted we have more head space in a carboy. I've had completely empty 5 gallon plastic carboys crumple just a bit from big temps swings, but there is a lot more airspace in there as well.
I'd think the concern would be more around pulling the bung completely into the carboy.

 

[The_Bishop]

Glass carboys are not designed to withstand *any* pressure, internal or external. If you think an internal vacuum isn't much pressure then get some physics/engineering books and see how much pressure even a slight 'vacuum' in a carboy creates.

It's bad/dangerous advice and anyone contemplating it should be forewarned.

Here's some relevant info:

https://pveng.com/external-pressure-methods/

https://www.engineersedge.com/mater...essel_external_pressure_calculations_9857.htm

 

[kh54s10]

Not to mention that each warm to freezing cycle weakens the glass. Then one small tap......

 

[J-T]

The links demonstrate clearly what external pressure can do to a cylinder. It is still unknown what level of pressure we are dealing with or how much the carboy can withstand. Maybe someone with a physics book could figure it out, but as this not a technique I employ, it won't be me. I can say I'm not worried about imploding bottles of apple juice or condiments when I toss them in the fridge either.

OP: you could always keg the beer, put it under pressure and cold crash at the same time. You'll draw some initial cloudy pints unless you use a top draw system like Clear Beer.

 

[Sadu]

Also, if you don't have much height to work with, you can put the blowoff in the fermentor and put the S airlock in the other end of the blowoff.

 

[jeeppilot]

Someone sells a system for this problem. It consists of 2 mason jars connected by tubing and an airlock. If there is any suck back it just moves Starsan from one jar to the other. It is impossible to suck the Starsan into the fermenter.

Also whenever you use a blow-off tube, put the end in a small cup of Starsan with just enough depth to keep the end of the tube submerged. Put that in a larger container in case of overflow.

Your Stout is now diluted some but it is safe to drink.

I also wonder the real need to cold crash a Stout.

In 6 1/2 years I have cold crashed only one beer. An it was not really any more clear than others.

Don’t buy it, build it!

I have two jars with Star San connected to an empty jar. All connections use a 1/2 barbed elbow from HD in the irrigation section. Maybe a buck a piece. The extra tube that is capped can attach another fermenter to it. Any massive blowoff is caught in the empty jar. When crash cooled, the Star San jars are vented and any large vacuum will pull Star San into the empty jar, but not the fermenter.

 

[brewbama]

+1. Easy to make. Mason jars, o-rings, lamp kit (threaded posts and nuts), tubing. Five minutes of drilling and threading and there ya go. Works great. Fermentation moves the liquid from one jar to the next, cold crash moves it back. No liquid in the fermenter.

 

[ba-brewer]

+1. Easy to make. Mason jars, o-rings, lamp kit (threaded posts and nuts), tubing. Five minutes of drilling and threading and there ya go. Works great. Fermentation moves the liquid from on jar to the next, cold crash moves it back. No liquid in the fermenter.

View attachment 552615

I tried a similar thing with grommets and pieces of a broken racking cane, but it only works one way. Co2 pushes the water from jar1 to jar2, but I can get the water to return when I cool. Jars seem to be sealed, any suggestions?

 

[jeeppilot]

I tried a similar thing with grommets and pieces of a broken racking cane, but it only works one way. Co2 pushes the water from jar1 to jar2, but I can get the water to return when I cool. Jars seem to be sealed, any suggestions?

Switch which jars your have the Star San in. The empty jar should be sealed, while the jar with Star San in it can be vented. That way the Star San would have to jump 2 jars to make it to the fermenter. Or just don’t have the tube in jar 1 sitting all the way down in the Star San.

 

[ba-brewer]

Switch which jars your have the Star San in. The empty jar should be sealed, while the jar with Star San in it can be vented. That way the Star San would have to jump 2 jars to make it to the fermenter. Or just don’t have the tube in jar 1 sitting all the way down in the Star San.

Thanks. I did have jar 2 with a airlock to allow it to vent. Star san would move partially up the tube but then stop, one time it looked like some did move from jar 2 back to jar 1 but very little. I also tried without a airlock too, same thing. I will have to try that again with the tube in jar1 not so far down or maybe reverse which jar is 1 and 2.

 

[BrewBrains]

I cold crashed a liter of StarSan into 5 gal of Hefeweizen and it won gold and 2nd BOS in our local competition.

 

[Beerswimmer]

If you have a kegging setup, or CO2 at all, why not just fill a balloon with CO2 and attach it to the airlock??

 

[brewbama]

It works as advertised. Here’s a description and operation video: http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/CO2-Carbon-Dioxide-Harvester-Kit.html