Epic cider recipe help

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Edcculus

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I've decided I want to do a pretty epic cider. I have a few ideas. With any of the recipes, I plan to source fresh apple juice during apple season. I believe there is an apple farm...plantation near where I live.

The first idea goes along the lines of a soured/wild beer. The initial fermentation would be done with a brewers yeast. Maybe Wyeast 3068, which I hear makes excellent cider. I would then secondary and add a sour strain like the Roselare blend. I would probably steep some crystal malts so it wouldn't turn out too puckeringly sour.

My next idea is a high ABV apple jack. Again, I would source fresh juice in season. I would add some honey/sugar to bump it to the 9-10% range. I would probably ferment with a brewers yeast again so it wouldn't attenuate all the way to 1.000 or below. I would then age it for at least a year, then freeze concentrate it. I'm not sure how well the process works, but 20%ABV would make a very good sipping drink on a cold winter night. After it ages for a bit, I might consider killing off the yeast, then back sweetening it with apple juice concentrate so it could be served still.

Any tips, suggestions?
 
For the "wild/sour" why not just use the yeast that is already in your fresh juice? (That is, unless the place you got it from pasteurizes their juice). There should be plenty of yeasts in the juice all ready for you to go, and under the right conditions, will even undergo malolactic fermentation in your secondary, without you having to do nearly anything!

As for the "Jacked" cider, why not do a "port-style" cider? freeze-distill the juice when you first get it in order to concentrate the sugars (only the water will freeze, remove the water), pitch a very tolerant yeast in there, EC1118 or K1-1116 comes to mind. Then, before fermentation is done, or at 1.020 or so, put some Apple Brandy or a neutral spirit to halt the fermentation in the same way Port is with Brandy.
 
I don't believe they allow freeze distilling talk on this website.

As far as I know, they do. Freeze CONCENTRATING is not a form of distillation. I don't have it at my fingertips, but there is a good episode of Basic Brewing Radio on the subject. While the legality seems a little gray in some states, as far as I know, its not ILLEGAL.

I don't want to turn this into a freeze concentrating debate like every thread on Eisbock or Apple Jack seems to turn into.


Freezeblade:
Great ideas. My problem with wild fermenation from the natural apple yeast is that its not completely proven. I'm sure some people sucessfully do it, but from what Ive read and heard, its not always the best. Granted I've never tried it. I kind of wanted a tried and true method. I know the Roselare or similar wild blend will work.

I really like the idea of an apple port. I think I'm leaning toward that one anyways.
 
I would only do a wild ferment if i was absolutely sure the juice had no treatment apart from chilling.
An important part of port is the tannins from fermenting the grapes on the skins. Maybe you could look at adding some tannin. If you have crab apple trees in the district they can be very high in tannin, otherwise I think you can buy tannins for adding to wine, or maybe use oak chips.
 
For the apple jack recipe, you might consider aging it on some heavy toast oak cubes and backsweetening with some molasses to give it a bit of a rummy flavor.
 
Freezeblade:
Great ideas. My problem with wild fermenation from the natural apple yeast is that its not completely proven. I'm sure some people sucessfully do it, but from what Ive read and heard, its not always the best. Granted I've never tried it. I kind of wanted a tried and true method. I know the Roselare or similar wild blend will work.

I really like the idea of an apple port. I think I'm leaning toward that one anyways.

The wyeast roselare blend is in season right now. You can order that and it has all the great yeasts and bacteria in it.
 
For the apple jack recipe, you might consider aging it on some heavy toast oak cubes and backsweetening with some molasses to give it a bit of a rummy flavor.

+ 1 on molasses, though use it sparingly, it can easily overpower virtually any other flavour. A few onces in 5 gallons is plenty. That being said, apple & molasses go together like bagels & cream cheese, you might think about tossing a vanilla bean in there too. Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, GF.
 
I don't believe they allow freeze distilling talk on this website.

That the theory of "freeze distillation" (which is kind of like saying "wet dry," since distillation involves heat) should be a prohibited topic is only defensible if there is a parallel prohibition on the discussion on the quantities some posters talk about brewing / distilling. It's perfectly obvious that there are significant numbers of people pursuing this pastime (and who post to that effect regularly on HBT and other forums) who make far, far more than the 200 gallons of beer or wine allowed per year per household by Federal law.
I can certainly understand why there would be a prohibition on discussion of distilling itself, or advertising distillation equipment for sale, but concentrating the ABV of a beverage by freezing it is simply too trivial to warrant concern.
OTOH, the owners of this forum can prohibit the discussion of anything they please- "Freedom of the press exists for those who own one."
 
Gratus, thanks for the tips. I think I'm going that way. This project is going on the back burner for a bit until I get more cornies to age in.
 
I'm going to pick this recipe up and run with it. A winter sipper would be nice. I will concentrate and then age tho. I think the concentration process will yield some stuff that needs some time with flavor developement.

Here's my recipe for 4 gallons, which will turn into 2 gallons

1 cinnamon stick, and 1 clove steeped in quart of hot water for 15 mins and added to primary.
4 cubes medium toast ( any reccomendation on wood origin?)
3 gallons apple juice
2lbs molases
2lbs brown sugar

I will add 4lbs honey when fermentation starts to slow.



Too much molases? I'm hoping to end up with a nice
 
I'm going to pick this recipe up and run with it. A winter sipper would be nice. I will concentrate and then age tho. I think the concentration process will yield some stuff that needs some time with flavor developement.

Here's my recipe for 4 gallons, which will turn into 2 gallons

1 cinnamon stick, and 1 clove steeped in quart of hot water for 15 mins and added to primary.
4 cubes medium toast ( any reccomendation on wood origin?)
3 gallons apple juice
2lbs molases
2lbs brown sugar

I will add 4lbs honey when fermentation starts to slow.



Too much molases? I'm hoping to end up with a nice

Wow, that's a LOT of molasses! I used 10oz in a 6 gallon batch of cyser & it was too much. Unless you REALLY like molasses, I'd say keep it to about 1 or 2oz per gallon or less. It doesn't take much molasses to overpower other flavours. Regards, GF.
 
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