Enhancing or adulterating?

[ColoHox]

We are throwing around the idea of using flavor syrups at the tap.

For example, one could order a purposely-brewed blond ale and add a pump of banana extract, or a session pale and add a pump of orange or grapefruit extract.

I have had feedback from a lot of people about this already. The beer purists have said: "if you want a beer to have more grapefruit flavor, brew it that way."

I totally agree with that sentiment. However, we are also in the business of selling beer. Many people have commented that they would enjoy the novelty of the flavor enhancements, or that it would be interesting to try out different flavors in the same beer. Many of the women drinkers, a large segment of our market, seem very interested in this concept.

Of course, if you want your beer to stay how it is, that's fine too.

People add flavors to their coffee all the time, so why not also try it out with beer?

What do you guys/gals think?

 

[JF_HBrews]

I think you should feel free to add 'flavorings' if you have the market for it. Anyone that is a purist can get theirs 'neat'. Flavorings and firkins are ways to keep something new on hand every week or month (you decide) and some other breweries already do this. How about coffee in that stout? I'd be surprised if you haven't seen that at a tasting room.

 

[kh54s10]

Adding extract flavorings (in most cases) sounds disgusting to me. But I would be interested in experimenting.... The problem when buying the beer is knowing how much flavor syrup you can add without making the beer you just bought undrinkable.....

You seem to be covering a lot of bases. Light flavored beers for the ladies and heavier flavored beers for the men. Even plain beer for the purist.

Where is the problem in offering the syrups? If someone doesn't want to flavor their beer, they don't have to......

 

[m00ps]

I think its a great idea to draw in people that arent exactly beer lovers or that just are adventurous in their tastes

You may have the occaisonal hipster snob turn their nose up at it, but in the end it would be the customers decision to add anything to the beer

 

[ncbrewer]

It might make purists think you just don't understand/respect beer??? (But probably not)

 

[ColoHox]

Adding extract flavorings (in most cases) sounds disgusting to me. But I would be interested in experimenting.... The problem when buying the beer is knowing how much flavor syrup you can add without making the beer you just bought undrinkable.....

You seem to be covering a lot of bases. Light flavored beers for the ladies and heavier flavored beers for the men. Even plain beer for the purist.

Where is the problem in offering the syrups? If someone doesn't want to flavor their beer, they don't have to......

We have been testing many flavors to determine the appropriate amount to add to particular beers. The problem stems from comments that m00ps mentions below:

I think its a great idea to draw in people that arent exactly beer lovers or that just are adventurous in their tastes

You may have the occaisonal hipster snob turn their nose up at it, but in the end it would be the customers decision to add anything to the beer

A number of snobs have said it is a terrible idea: that I would be perceived as a lazy or inexperienced brewer if I were to just add flavors post-fermentation. Really, this would be a pretty small segment of our sales, so our neat-beer would still have to be top-notch.

I wanted to see what the perception was around HBT.

 

[Hello]

A brewery here added Monin's raspberry flavor to their berliner weisse and it was awesome. Also, the same was done at a bottle shop in town and that keg was kicked quite fast as soon as the flavor syrup was available. People who preferred fruity beers loved it as it cut the sourness. Not everyone likes tart/sour but they loved the crispness of the style. If you use high quality flavor syrups and you don't use too much, it could really be nice in some instances. It is not like you are requiring people to order a beer with them.

 

[BGBC]

You're almost talking about beer cocktails, which I've seen more places offering these days. That might be a way to market it, so you could offer suggested combinations.

 

[ColoHox]

You're almost talking about beer cocktails, which I've seen more places offering these days. That might be a way to market it, so you could offer suggested combinations.

Good point. We will definitely suggest specific flavors, but experimentation is fun too.

 

[hunter_le five]

I hate the idea of adding flavor syrups to MY beer.

I love the idea of adding flavor syrups to other people's beer if it will make money.

If you think there's a market for it, then go for it. Just don't put it in my beer.

 

[kh54s10]

As long as you don't give the impression that you are using syrups to make inferior beer better there should be no problem.

Stress good beer with the syrups as an option.

If you lose a few beer snobs you are probably better off anyway......

 

[ColoHox]

I hate the idea of adding flavor syrups to MY beer.

I love the idea of adding flavor syrups to other people's beer if it will make money.

If you think there's a market for it, then go for it. Just don't put it in my beer.

Why don't you like it? Have you just not had the right combo?

 

[aangel]

Plenty of beer recipes involve using extracts. Throwing a vanilla bean into secondary is really just doing a rudimentary extract (alcohol + water + compounds soluble in alcohol or water).

Ignore the purists and do flavor shots. Or give them lip service and use flavorings but just put them into the keg so they think it's unadulterated.

 

[BGBC]

Are we talking about a brewery/tap room? Or a craft beer bar?

 

[ColoHox]

Are we talking about a brewery/tap room? Or a craft beer bar?

Taproom. We aren't adulterating other people's beer.

 

[d3track]

I think I'd want the White Labs type flight for it: base beer then three different flavors.

 

[Gavin C]

We are throwing around the idea of using flavor syrups at the tap.

For example, one could order a purposely-brewed blond ale and add a pump of banana extract, or a session pale and add a pump of orange or grapefruit extract.

I have had feedback from a lot of people about this already. The beer purists have said: "if you want a beer to have more grapefruit flavor, brew it that way."

I totally agree with that sentiment. However, we are also in the business of selling beer. Many people have commented that they would enjoy the novelty of the flavor enhancements, or that it would be interesting to try out different flavors in the same beer. Many of the women drinkers, a large segment of our market, seem very interested in this concept.

Of course, if you want your beer to stay how it is, that's fine too.

People add flavors to their coffee all the time, so why not also try it out with beer?

What do you guys/gals think?

I think it's a really good idea. I've never been a massive fan of fruit beer so I think it would be great to be able to have both options available, additions at the faucet or after the pour is a great way to have your cake and eat it too in terms of pleasing the greatest number of customers.

In Ireland it's common practice for bar tenders to add a dash of blackcurrant upon request to a Guinness. I'm not a fan but it is extremely popular as I know first hand from working in a bar as a server/cellarman (lounge-boy) many moons ago.

Snake-bites have a similar addition but when it comes to beer, the clientelle would be less discerning in general than what your likely aiming to please.

I say go for it.

ETA: Look at Berliner Weisse. Even ze Germans are at it and there are few who would describe them as non-purists when it comes to beer.

 

[hunter_le five]

Why don't you like it? Have you just not had the right combo?

I've never even tried it. I just don't like the idea of it, as I said.

Perhaps if I tried it, I would like it. I just get weirded out by the thought of adding flavorings to beer, when what I really want is to just taste the beer itself. I don't generally like "flavored" beers, novelty beers, etc, and in my mind this seems like an extension of that.

But I am a fan of making money, and finding ways to appeal to more customers. I do see this as a potential way of attracting customers who are more into BMC, or novelty beers, or flavored malt beverages, or cocktail drinkers, into drinking craft beer instead.

 

[ColoHox]

I think it's a really good idea. I've never been a massive fan of fruit beer so I think it would be great to be able to have both options available, additions at the faucet or after the pour is a great way to have your cake and eat it to in terms of pleasing the greatest number of customers.

In Ireland it's common practice for bar tenders to add a dash of blackcurrant upon request to a Guinness. I'm not a fan but it is extremely popular as I know first hand from working in a bar as a server/cellarman (lounge-boy) many moons ago.

Snake-bite's have a similar addition but when it comes to beer, the clientelle in would be less discerning in general than what your likely aiming to please.

I say go for it.

We've seen it done other places. Blackcurrant in Guinness was pretty interesting, but not my favorite. The Germans traditionally add Woodruff syrup to a Berliner Weisse. We thought it would be a way to attract a craftbeer novice or let people test their beer pallets.

 

[BGBC]

Taproom. We aren't adulterating other people's beer.

Cool. Make the extracts yourself, use high quality ingredients, and control the options available, just like I'm sure you're doing with your beer already.

Experimentation is fun, but if someone has a bad experience in your taproom because they tried a nasty banana IPA (instead of a tasty banana blonde), that's bad.

I think I'd want the White Labs type flight for it: base beer then three different flavors.

+1 for this. Might not want a full pint, but would be cool to try side by side tasters.

 

[TheCADJockey]

You could skip the extracts and syrups, and consider having other items to pair with the beer that could have a similar effect. Some fresh fruit added to the drink or served in a way that would allow the customer to add it directly, mash or muddle it and add as they wish might be a nice option. A few bars in the area serve a local blueberry wheat with blueberries added to the pint.

I think something along these lines might be a slightly safer approach unless you really figure out the extracts. I'd rather get something to experiment with on the side than to have it left to a bartender or server's discretion. Hell, coffee shops I go to just have to press a button to release the amount of sugar I want.. and it still comes out inconsistent from day to day. Just let me add it.

 

[Gavin C]

The blasphemy to which I earlier referred.

Apparently they make a commercial version. Who knew.

 

[ColoHox]

You could skip the extracts and syrups, and consider having other items to pair with the beer that could have a similar effect. Some fresh fruit added to the drink or served in a way that would allow the customer to add it directly, mash or muddle it and add as they wish might be a nice option. A few bars in the area serve a local blueberry wheat with blueberries added to the pint.

I think something along these lines might be a slightly safer approach unless you really figure out the extracts. I'd rather get something to experiment with on the side than to have it left to a bartender or server's discretion. Hell, coffee shops I go to just have to press a button to release the amount of sugar I want.. and it still comes out inconsistent from day to day. Just let me add it.

Good idea. The fresh ingredients aspect is interesting. However, I don't think we could do that with our specific liquor license.

Our initial goal is to use the smallest amount of the syrup as possible, as determined by our sensory panels. Then, if you want more, we could add it I guess.

 

[ColoHox]

@Gavin_C pretty clear who their target market for that product is.

Edit: how do you link your name with the space in it?

 

[Mismost]

1. You will never please all the people all the time...so don't even try.

2. I like the idea. Would I order a flavor shot? Maybe.

3. Also think you could actually stumble into some interesting new beer ideas/flavor combo's that might just get brewed that way in the future.

One thing for certain, you will never know until you try. Can't win if you don't try. If you fail, it won't be the first time. Onward though the fog!

 

[TheCADJockey]

Good idea. The fresh ingredients aspect is interesting. However, I don't think we could do that with our specific liquor license.

Couldn't serve fresh fruit/herbs on the side? Man. I didn't know that was a thing. Well, I'm sure you will find something that works. I see nothing wrong with it if people want it and it's not just some disgusting squirt of artificial flavoring.

 

[ColoHox]

Couldn't serve fresh fruit/herbs on the side? Man. I didn't know that was a thing. Well, I'm sure you will find something that works. I see nothing wrong with it if people want it and it's not just some disgusting squirt of artificial flavoring.

Let me tell ya, liquor licensing is a special sort of stupid. We can only have prepackaged food items, otherwise it means a full prep kitchen, health inspections, and a different license type.

We are clarifying with the TTB if we can prepare our own extracts, like was mentioned. Also, none of the flavors will be "artificial," so to speak. We have talked with a number of companies who produce natural extracts.

 

[McGarnigle]

ETA: Look at Berliner Weisse. Even ze Germans are at it and there are few who would describe them as non-purists when it comes to beer.

In fact, the Germans are far from being purists. The breweries may espouse purity, but the people love to drink beer mixed with fruit juice, cola, etc.

 

[Gavin C]

@Gavin_C pretty clear who their target market for that product is.

Edit: how do you link your name with the space in it?

Yes. Definitely not this demographic with the sweetheart neckline on the bottle.

No idea on the linking. This has cropped up before. I am unlinkable it seems. Makes me feel very exclusive

 

[Malty_Dog]

Honestly it seems pretty revolutionary. I know how much I struggle as a homebrewer to satisfy a certain *ahem* demographic (SWMBO's friends ) with homebrew. A few actually like beer but there's a whole contingent who are into Bud Light Lime and sweet mixed drinks. It may cost you a few beer snobs, but may gain you a whole slew of new customers. Folks who like to go out and actually buy someone else's brew!

 

[ImNoExpert]

I am 100% against it. Although I'm also against shandys and Black and Tans.

So I say, if it sells more beer, go for it!

 

[TropicAl]

Why not. If you can get people to part with an extra 50 cents a draft good for you

 

[iijakii]

I've had some syrups in Berliners that were fantastic. I also really enjoy grapefruit juice in some pils/blondes. I say go for it and market them as beer cocktails. Why would anyone care about an optional offering?

I can imagine some 'purist' *****ehole raging at someone for putting an orange slice in their hefe or lime in a light lager.

 

[iijakii]

I am also against black and tans, but only because I'd rather have 100% delicious Guiness. Now if it was one pint of black and one pint of tan, now that I could abide.

 

[Gavin C]

I am also against black and tans, but only because I'd rather have 100% delicious Guiness. Now if it was one pint of black and one pint of tan, now that I could abide.

Testify!

 

[day_trippr]

It's been done...

http://www.bruflavor.com/flavors.html

Cheers!

 

[ColoHox]

It's been done...

http://www.bruflavor.com/flavors.html

Cheers!

Of couse people sell flavorings. I don't often see them in taprooms.

 

[day_trippr]

Of course you haven't - because nobody asked for them...

Cheers!

[edit] I thought the story behind the product might be illuminating.
As in "What the hell do I do with all this fizzy yellow pisswater".
But, if that paradigm seems aspirational, go for it

 

[pdxal]

I've seen several breweries in Oregon serve their Berliner Weiss with a shot of house made flavored syrups alongside for the customer to add as much as desired. Probably more folks go for the syrup than go without like I do.
Go for it if you can do it in a cost effective manner and make money at it.

 

[Jwin]

Just make sure is non-gmo, certified organic flavorings made by Amish with hipster mustaches.

No, seriously, just pick one or two pairings to start and give out some free flights with a small survey(printed on 100% recycled hippie tampons) and see what the reaction is.