English style yeast, and stuck fermentations.

[NYShooterGuy]

I've been having a problem recently with my London ESB yeast and S-04 yeast. After pitching these strains into my wort, I ferment at about 64-68°F for about 3-4 days and raise the temps to about 70-72°F for a day or 2 and then let sit in about 68-69°F for 21 more days.

I prime with table sugar according to calculated levels appropriate for the style and bottle.

I've bottled about 40 batches in my time.of homebrewing. A few batches had the 1 or 2 bottles that were gushes, but recently I've have 2 batches that resulted in bottle bombs.

The batches were not back to back, the equipment used is cleaned and sanitized just as with the other batches that didn't result in bottle bombs, the same sugar and calculators are used for each batch.

The only difference I can think of is the yeast strain. I take hydrometer readings and the FG falls in the acceptable range, but the yeast just doesn't finish up.

The first ever batch of bottle bombs was from a batch that should have been at a much lower gravity and I didn't realize that I should have done some problem solving before bottling. A Stout fermented with S-04 and held at about 67°F for 4 weeks.

Since, if faced with a high FG after 4 weeks in the primary, I would stir the bottom of the fermenter and place a heating pad around the fermenter and get the beer warmed up for about 2-3 days, just to raise the temperature to about 72°F

Well. It happened again. I didn't think I had a very high FG, bottled and *POP!* A barley wine fermented with Wyeast London ESB yeast and held at about 68°F for 4 weeks.

Incidentally, the day of the first bottle exploding, another batch in a fermenter in the same closet as the bottles started to bubble from the airlock after being dormant for 14 days. This newly reactive batch is a ESB fermented with Wyeast London ESB yeast. Also, the day of the bottle bombs, a storm had moved in and the temps shot up to about 74-76°F in the closet.

So if I learned anything, it's to never trust these English yeast strains to finish after holding steady with temperatures. Heat the fermenter up for a few days before bottling, get a FG that is appropriate for the attenuation percentage and I need to line my closet with plastic because I hate how my beer is ruining my carpeting.

 

[flars]

You should do more than get a FG that is appropriate for the attenuation percentage. The attenuation percentage is mainly for comparison of different yeasts. The actual attenuation is very often a higher percentage. Give your beers more time in the primary and take SG readings three to five days apart. I would go for at least 10 to 14 days in the primary at a steady temperature before taking the first SG reading. Some yeasts take quite some time to finish the last few gravity points.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

Give your beers more time in the primary and take SG readings three to five days apart. I would go for at least 10 to 14 days in the primary at a steady temperature before taking the first SG reading. Some yeasts take quite some time to finish the last few gravity points.

I've been doing this as a general rule for my beers after realizing they finish better sitting on the yeast cake for longer. I've been (incorrectly) believing that the beer HAS to be finished after sitting in the primary for 28 days and this has lead to my bottle bombs. I accepted a high FG as a finished beer, bottled and had problems.

I have to do something to rouse the yeast into working again be it, stir the cake, heat the beer, or *eck* add another strain.

The hydrometer is our friend and I just can't accept a high FG anymore before I decide to bottle with these English Ale yeast strains. I don't like the dangers and the mess that come with it.

 

[ncbrewer]

You should do more than get a FG that is appropriate for the attenuation percentage. The attenuation percentage is mainly for comparison of different yeasts. The actual attenuation is very often a higher percentage. Give your beers more time in the primary and take SG readings three to five days apart. I would go for at least 10 to 14 days in the primary at a steady temperature before taking the first SG reading. Some yeasts take quite some time to finish the last few gravity points.

I agree with all this, but it seems like a stout fermenting with S-04 for four weeks should be finished. IMO there is a problem that needs to be addressed - yeast health or fermentation conditions.

 

[flars]

I've been doing this as a general rule for my beers after realizing they finish better sitting on the yeast cake for longer. I've been (incorrectly) believing that the beer HAS to be finished after sitting in the primary for 28 days and this has lead to my bottle bombs. I accepted a high FG as a finished beer, bottled and had problems.

I have to do something to rouse the yeast into working again be it, stir the cake, heat the beer, or *eck* add another strain.

The hydrometer is our friend and I just can't accept a high FG anymore before I decide to bottle with these English Ale yeast strains. I don't like the dangers and the mess that come with it.

I missed the part about an extra 21 days in your original post.

I had a similar problem with a brown ale using Windsor yeast for the first time. OG was 1.052 and finished at 1.019. Sample was thick and sweet. I tried rousing the yeast and warming the fermentor. After a week with no change I pitched a half liter starter of WY1056 at high krausen. Very slow fermentation resumed. After two weeks SG stabilized at 1.011. Taste and body was the same as when I had used WY 1332 for all of these ales previously.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I agree with all this, but it seems like a stout fermenting with S-04 for four weeks should be finished. IMO there is a problem that needs to be addressed - yeast health or fermentation conditions.

Other than using fresh, new yeast, fresh DME for a starter, fresh sanstar, yeast nutrient, steady primary fermentation temps, and clean sanitized equipment, what else would you suggest I could do to address this issue?

 

[ncbrewer]

Other than using fresh, new yeast, fresh DME for a starter, fresh sanstar, yeast nutrient, steady primary fermentation temps, and clean sanitized equipment, what else would you suggest I could do to address this issue?

I was having consistent high FG for a while. These are the things I tried:
Maintain constant temperature while hydrating (without stirring) [This didn't help]
Minimize time between starting rehydration and pitching (less than 30 minutes)
Added ~3/4 oz wort after attemperation if waiting too long to pitch.
Keep max of 18 deg temp drop per cool-down step during attemperation
Reduced rehydration water from 8 oz to 6 oz before boiling [This didn't help]
Pitch dry [This didn't help]
Varied pitching temperature
Yeast hydration temperatures (may be strain dependent)
Yeast nutrients
Yeast hydration - water problems (tried using spring water w/o chlorine)

I greatly improved the attenuation using a combination of several of these, but I never backed off of some to determine which specific procedures were responsible for the improvement.

Note: You mentioned starters. I'm thinking you were referring to liquid yeast - starters are not generally recommended for dried yeast.

 

[NYShooterGuy]

I greatly improved the attenuation using a combination of several of these, but I never backed off of some to determine which specific procedures were responsible for the improvement.

Note: You mentioned starters. I'm thinking you were referring to liquid yeast - starters are not generally recommended for dried yeast.

I use a lot, if not all the suggestions you mentioned. I really have started losing interest in the hobby because of the compounding difficulties I've been faced with (bottle bombs, gushers, poor taste, etc.). I've made 45 batches in the 18+ months I've been brewing. I remember how terrible my first batches were, learned what I did wrong, and my beer started to greatly improve. Then, somewhere along the time line, my product began taking a dip. I realized the problem, corrected it, and again began having good beer.

I now have this problem with attenuation and bottle bombs. I tried to work with the problem and had some success, but I'm still failing to make that "Great" beer. Now what comes out of the bottle after months of waiting, and hours of labor is just "beer", carbonated, bitter, colored alcohol and water. They all have their own characteristics; darker, more bitter, lighter less body, but they fail to impress me and I would be embarrassed to present a pint to a friend stating "I made that!"

I've just recently realized another mistake I've overlooked was hop freshness. I keep my unused portions of hops in the mylar bags they are shipped to me in and vacuum seal them and place them in my room temperature closet. Hops as old as 12 months have been stored in a closet that swings from 64°F to as high as 76°F for months. I started to make room in my freezer to accommodate my supply of hops that are left.

I'm hoping that the freshness of ingredients that is universally known as important as sanitation is will correct my current slump.

 

[flars]

I use a lot, if not all the suggestions you mentioned. I really have started losing interest in the hobby because of the compounding difficulties I've been faced with (bottle bombs, gushers, poor taste, etc.). I've made 45 batches in the 18+ months I've been brewing. I remember how terrible my first batches were, learned what I did wrong, and my beer started to greatly improve. Then, somewhere along the time line, my product began taking a dip. I realized the problem, corrected it, and again began having good beer.

I now have this problem with attenuation and bottle bombs. I tried to work with the problem and had some success, but I'm still failing to make that "Great" beer. Now what comes out of the bottle after months of waiting, and hours of labor is just "beer", carbonated, bitter, colored alcohol and water. They all have their own characteristics; darker, more bitter, lighter less body, but they fail to impress me and I would be embarrassed to present a pint to a friend stating "I made that!"

I've just recently realized another mistake I've overlooked was hop freshness. I keep my unused portions of hops in the mylar bags they are shipped to me in and vacuum seal them and place them in my room temperature closet. Hops as old as 12 months have been stored in a closet that swings from 64°F to as high as 76°F for months. I started to make room in my freezer to accommodate my supply of hops that are left.

I'm hoping that the freshness of ingredients that is universally known as important as sanitation is will correct my current slump.

Throw out all of the old hops. Hops that have soured will ruin any beer no matter how carefully it is brewed.

A poorly aerated wort will cause problems with attenuation.
Bottles that have not had the crud scrubbed out will result in gushers.
Fermentors that have crud remaining will result in bad beer.
Hot fermentations will result in bad beer.
Oxidizing the beer during the bottling process will result in bad beer.

The details of your last bad beer would help with the diagnosis.

 

[ncbrewer]

In the 1990's, after 3+ years of reasonably good success, I started getting totally unacceptable results. Finally had to give up because there was no where else to go. I didn't start back until 2011. I don't want that to happen to you. Although there are many specific changes you could try, I'll suggest one sweeping change: simplify. To get back on track, drop all the extra things people might do to make better beer. For example:
-Brew some “normal” beers - not high gravity, no sours, etc.
-Extract instead of all-grain
-For extract batches, don't use steeping grains. Williams Brewing has some blended extracts that produce good beer without any steeping grains.
-Forget the late extract addition - add all extract at the beginning of the boil
-Forget hop stands - Use early and late boil hop additions
-Very controversial measure: If your tap water is good/safe, do partial boil, and chill in a sink of ice water with the lid on. This avoids having the kettle sit open while cooling. The boil water and top-off water will both need campden treatment. (Be very careful about sanitation of the top-off water.)
-Don't strain out the trub when transferring to the fermenter
-Use dry yeast. Although I strongly prefer to rehydrate, consider pitching dry to really simplify.
-If using dry yeast, don't get carried away with aeration. Just pour the wort from shoulder high. It will foam up nicely.
-Plan on 3 weeks in primary
-No secondary
-Don't dry hop
-No gelatin
-Don't sample or stir until 2 - 3 days before anticipated bottling day. -Then take a gravity sample - also drink the sample.
-Sample again on bottling day. Bottle if gravity is reasonable and stable, and beer is clear or slightly hazy.
-If you feel the need to stir after racking into the priming syrup in the bottling bucket, give it just a few gentle stirs - with some vertical component to break up any stratification. I think most brewers feel that the swirling action of racking the beer in on a tangent into the syrup is sufficient mixing - your choice, but the simpler the better.

Many brewers will take issue with these ideas, with good reason. These are intended to get you back on track - not to produce the absolute ultimate prize-winning beer.

I understand many prefer to make one change at a time, but this can lengthen the process. If you go this route, it's easy to slowly move back by adding the “extras” one at a time. Meanwhile, you're making good beer.

The best of luck to you.