English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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HM-2

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Standard black malt, or debittered? I find myself quite sensitive to black malt in almost any style so my personal lean would be towards chocolate rye to possibly put a bit of twist on it. I might slightly up the DRC and slightly lower the black/patent/choc/whatever you end up using slightly.
 

cire

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Either grainbill would be good in my eyes. My only concern would be the value of adding good hops to the FV in a malty beer that would benefit significantly from a chloride forward liquor profile. I find sulfate and/or lack of chloride in dark beers can make some darker malts quite bitter.
 

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I decided to go with Chocolate since black malt might make it a wee bit too dark. Gonna go with my porter/stout profile, 300 mg/L Cl, 80mg So4, 70-85 mg Na.
Or my Mild/Brown Ale profile wich is 230 mg Cl, 140mg So4 and 50mg Na.
Both are slightly tweaked variants of Graham Wheeler profiles.
Have been looking at some clone recipes for Old Peculier and most feature a small dry hop, and I have a couple kilos that needs using so why not?
 

Erik the Anglophile

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Plugged it all in to Beersmith, and it estimates color to just above 50 EBC.
The color contribution of invert is often a bit overestimated in my experience, so it will likely be a wee bit lighter, but oto OP looks kinda black unless held directly to a light source and since it will be an OP inspired brew it should come out about where I want it.
Will go with my mild profile for water, a bit of sulfate but still cloride forward liqour.
@DBhomebrew @cire
 

Erik the Anglophile

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The stout got bottled last weekend, 35 0.5L bottles.
Might do a slightly altered re-brew of it with the OG bumped up to 1.070 since this came out a bit too weak for a proper late victorian Brown Stout, and then compare wich I prefer.
Guess I could always call this one a victorian porter or inter war era Brown Stout...
 

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eshea3

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Just a note to advise that Darkstar Brewery has. now made available a rebrew of Gale's Prize Old Ale. Martyn Cornell provides the details far more eloquently and knowledgeably that I could. Rush out now and buy as much Gale’s Prize Old Ale as you can

The initial bottling sold out very quickly, but there will be another 1300 bottles made available on December 2 on the brewery web shop
 
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monkeymath

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Since I always jump between various styles and never make the same thing, I have a tendency to attempt to incorporate every trick into my brews - and then struggle to really learn anything from my experiments.
I plan to brew a bitter using the homemade "invert no2"-ish sugar syrup I made earlier this year and this time I want to keep it as simple as possible, while still making a delicious beer. It should be pale, grainy, biscuity, with substantial floral and fruity aromas from hops and yeast, with no flavour sticking out too much.
Rough idea: 11 deg plato (1.044 OG), 25-30 IBU, Warminster Maris Otter as base. A good amount (10% by weight? Too much?) of the sugar syrup. Maybe a bit of Warminster crystal malt to maintain body and head retention, but I'm not dead set on that. Mix of EKG and Bramling Cross with roughly 30g total at 15" and 0" each (and a bittering addition at 60" to hit the target IBU). Ferment with either M36 Liberty Bell or WY1469 at the slightly cooler end of things, 17-18 °C.
Bad idea and I should feel bad? Or suggestions to fill in the details?
 

Erik the Anglophile

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That sounds nice, I'd drop the gravity down to 1.040 and mash so it ferments out on the dryer side, high 70's AA, and increase the bitterness to reach a bu:gu of 0.8-0.9. definitely throw in a few percent crystal and a little wheat maybe. I have a bitter right now where I used 8% wheat and it got a slight haze and a little weissbier like wheaty/grainy tang, will keep it down to 5% in the future.
Keep in mind though I prefer Northern or Yorkshire style Bitters, if you want it more in the Southern style keep your gravity and IBU as is.
 

eshea3

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Since I always jump between various styles and never make the same thing, I have a tendency to attempt to incorporate every trick into my brews - and then struggle to really learn anything from my experiments.
I plan to brew a bitter using the homemade "invert no2"-ish sugar syrup I made earlier this year and this time I want to keep it as simple as possible, while still making a delicious beer. It should be pale, grainy, biscuity, with substantial floral and fruity aromas from hops and yeast, with no flavour sticking out too much.
Rough idea: 11 deg plato (1.044 OG), 25-30 IBU, Warminster Maris Otter as base. A good amount (10% by weight? Too much?) of the sugar syrup. Maybe a bit of Warminster crystal malt to maintain body and head retention, but I'm not dead set on that. Mix of EKG and Bramling Cross with roughly 30g total at 15" and 0" each (and a bittering addition at 60" to hit the target IBU). Ferment with either M36 Liberty Bell or WY1469 at the slightly cooler end of things, 17-18 °C.
Bad idea and I should feel bad? Or suggestions to fill in the details?
Have a very similar beer in the fermenter. 7.5# of Chevalier, 1# of homemade invert #2. Mash and boil 90 minutes with Pilgrim and Goldings at 60, Goldings at 30, and First Gold at 5. Fermented with an out of date pack of 1469 supplemented with a pack of S-04.
 

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i've got a couple quick questions before i pull the trigger on my first premium bitter. i should have brewed this months ago but i laid off of brewing for a while. The imperial pub yeast pack is now 6months old. software says it would be zero viability? Not sure i'm buying that, what do you think? if 60b were viable id cover the 319b i need for a 10.5g batch with a starter. Option would be to drive an hour to the hbs for some Notty.
also-is 8.6% invert #2 too much ?
1.043, 4%, fg: 1.012, ibu: 32, srm: 9.98
 
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tracer bullet

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I'd suggest doing a starter from the yeast, almost certainly still has good cells, enough for a starter anyhow. Once that's done it's thing you should be good to go.

I did 5% #2 in my last ESB, and not sure I could actually tell. I'm planning to brew it again later this week and go with 10% of the #2. IIRC that was actually the original recommendation in this thread and I should have just gone with it.
 
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scrap iron

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i've got a couple quick questions before i pull the trigger on my first premium bitter. i should have brewed this months ago but i laid off of brewing for a while. The imperial pub yeast pack is now 6months old. software says it would be zero viability? Not sure i'm buying that, what do you think? if 60b were viable id cover the 319b i need for a 10.5g batch with a starter. Option would be to drive an hour to the hbs for some Notty.
also-is 8.6% invert #2 too much ?
1.043, 4%, fg: 1.012, ibu: 32, srm: 9.98
The 09 Pub is a good yeast. I have successfully revived it after six months if properly stored.
If you have a couple of vessels for starters, you could do this. Make your usual starter then after about an hour gently pour it off to the second vessel leaving the dead cells behind on the bottom. The healthy yeast is still suspended in the wort and you can add more wort to up the cell count.
 

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i've got a couple quick questions before i pull the trigger on my first premium bitter. i should have brewed this months ago but i laid off of brewing for a while. The imperial pub yeast pack is now 6months old. software says it would be zero viability? Not sure i'm buying that, what do you think? if 60b were viable id cover the 319b i need for a 10.5g batch with a starter. Option would be to drive an hour to the hbs for some Notty.
also-is 8.6% invert #2 too much ?
1.043, 4%, fg: 1.012, ibu: 32, srm: 9.98
+1 for the starter, the pack will be still ok for a starter. You should do a starter with liquid yeasts anyway. Yes, also with imperial yeast. Trust me, I learned it the hard way.

I go mainly with 10% invert, so yes, 8,6% is completely fine. Anything up to 20% is generally possible. Even more.
 

Miraculix

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The 09 Pub is a good yeast. I have successfully revived it after six months if properly stored.
If you have a couple of vessels for starters, you could do this. Make your usual starter then after about an hour gently pour it off to the second vessel leaving the dead cells behind on the bottom. The healthy yeast is still suspended in the wort and you can add more wort to up the cell count.
Dead and living cells do not behave like that. What you are actually leaving behind is the well flocculating portion of the yeast, containing both dead and living cells. And you are propagating further the not so well floccing portion of the yeast, also containing dead and living cells.
 

WesBrew

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thanks, cooking up the starter now. i'm never sure on the store packs, my harvested yeasts no question. i could totally bump the invert, i wasn't sure how much to use but have 2lbs that i made.
-ive never tried a multi-step starter and likely wont here, but i'd let step one runs its course before adding to a second starter.
 
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scrap iron

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Dead and living cells do not behave like that. What you are actually leaving behind is the well flocculating portion of the yeast, containing both dead and living cells. And you are propagating further the not so well floccing portion of the yeast, also containing dead and living cells.
I would think that the short time between the transfer, one hour or less would mostly be dead or unhealthy yeast. I'm not an authority on this just had success in using this to use old yeast.
cheers
 

Miraculix

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I would think that the short time between the transfer, one hour or less would mostly be dead or unhealthy yeast. I'm not an authority on this just had success in using this to use old yeast.
cheers
The yeast is not actively swimming around, the turbulances keeping the yeast in suspension are generated by rising bubbles of co2. This force impacts dead and living cells the same way. Yeasts that clump togehter, ie. flocculate can build up bigger mass per particle, this means they settle down and do not get affected by the currents as much as single cells. Therefore, dead cells do not sink more often to the bottom than living cells, meaning by decanting off the mass at the bottom, you are removing the best flocculators, not the dead cells.
 

scrap iron

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The yeast is not actively swimming around, the turbulences keeping the yeast in suspension are generated by rising bubbles of co2. This force impacts dead and living cells the same way. Yeasts that clump togehter, ie. flocculate can build up bigger mass per particle, this means they settle down and do not get affected by the currents as much as single cells. Therefore, dead cells do not sink more often to the bottom than living cells, meaning by decanting off the mass at the bottom, you are removing the best flocculators, not the dead cells.
I see what you're saying but when I transfer there is no activity started yet and no turbulence or visible co2 activity yet.
 

balrog

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FWIW, YMMV, IMHO, OMO, etc
I *always* (except when I don't) overbuild on a stir plate, everything in suspension until I pull it off the stir plate, then save approximately 100b from the SWAG (no microscope or hemacytwhateverthehell here) calculated total. But I do often crash a day or two before decanting, swirling the remainder, and using/saving. That having been said, I suppose I am therefore typically overbuilding and selecting better floculating yeast.

It works until you get sloppy with sanitation, and you **WILL** know when that is because you'll open a saved mason jar to create the next overbuild starter and it will smell like the underside of a roadkilled yak. Ask me how I know.
 

Miraculix

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I see what you're saying but when I transfer there is no activity started yet and no turbulence or visible co2 activity yet.
Exactly and therefore, the yeast begins to sink. The ones which form the particles with the bigger mass sink faster than the ones with the lower mass. The ones with the bigger mass are the yeast cells that have flocculated. Therefore the flocculated yeast sinks to the bottom quicker than the single cells. Which means what you are leaving behind are the well flocculating cells, not the dead ones.
 

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Listening to the other beer lug away in the blowoff got me motivated. - I feel sure this is going to kick off soon.
 

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Northern_Brewer

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i've got a couple quick questions before i pull the trigger on my first premium bitter. i should have brewed this months ago but i laid off of brewing for a while. The imperial pub yeast pack is now 6months old. software says it would be zero viability? Not sure i'm buying that, what do you think? if 60b were viable id cover the 319b i need for a 10.5g batch with a starter. Option would be to drive an hour to the hbs for some Notty.
also-is 8.6% invert #2 too much ?
1.043, 4%, fg: 1.012, ibu: 32, srm: 9.98
I've resurrected White Labs yeast that was 4.5 years old, so I wouldn't sweat 6 months - just do a starter.

As a general comment, if you're not a regular bitter drinker, I'd aim for a final ABV of about 4.3% - although 4.5% is pretty much the upper limit of cask beer in the real world (pubs struggle to get the necessary turnover on strong beers unless they're eg in city centres) it gets exponentially harder to make a satisfying one the lower ABV you go, so that classic Best level of 4.3% or so is the sweet spot.

And personally I'd go for a bit more bitterness, around 0.85 BU:GU. Nothing wrong with 4% and 0.75 BU:GU, it's just a bit more of a southern/commercial style that way and it's less to my personal taste.

Anything up to 10% invert is fine - again it comes down to personal taste.
 

WesBrew

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I've resurrected White Labs yeast that was 4.5 years old, so I wouldn't sweat 6 months - just do a starter.

As a general comment, if you're not a regular bitter drinker, I'd aim for a final ABV of about 4.3% - although 4.5% is pretty much the upper limit of cask beer in the real world (pubs struggle to get the necessary turnover on strong beers unless they're eg in city centres) it gets exponentially harder to make a satisfying one the lower ABV you go, so that classic Best level of 4.3% or so is the sweet spot.

And personally I'd go for a bit more bitterness, around 0.85 BU:GU. Nothing wrong with 4% and 0.75 BU:GU, it's just a bit more of a southern/commercial style that way and it's less to my personal taste.

Anything up to 10% invert is fine - again it comes down to personal taste.
I gave it a slight bump to .044, 4.2%, 35.4ibu. If the yeast gets it down to .011 I might be at 4.3%, all ekg, touch of brown malt for color
 
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Colindo

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Hi guys,

I finally got through this amazingly long thread. Very nice topic, lots to discuss. My favourite English ale is definitely the Timothy Taylor Landlord, because it tastes amazing and its simple recipe is quite easy to reproduce.

I recently tried to clone the Meantime Now IPA that was designed in collaboration with the Craft Beer Channel. Quite a nice bunch of fruits from the modern English hops, though my reverse-engineered recipe differed a bit from the original that they released later. I just published the recipe video.


Just a note to advise that Darkstar Brewery has. now made available a rebrew of Gale's Prize Old Ale. Martyn Cornell provides the details far more eloquently and knowledgeably that I could. Rush out now and buy as much Gale’s Prize Old Ale as you can
I was one of the guys buggering Fuller's and Asahi to make it available in the shop. It worked, but indeed sold out quickly. I managed to get 6 bottles sent to a friend in the UK and will get those in January. Am looking forward to trying to revive the mixed culture sediment and try to clone the beer.
 

eshea3

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I was one of the guys buggering Fuller's and Asahi to make it available in the shop. It worked, but indeed sold out quickly. I managed to get 6 bottles sent to a friend in the UK and will get those in January. Am looking forward to trying to revive the mixed culture sediment and try to clone the beer.
Thank you for your efforts. I got three bottles that arrived at my daughters and I will be meeting up with them in a few weeks.
 

Erik the Anglophile

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Hi guys,

I finally got through this amazingly long thread. Very nice topic, lots to discuss. My favourite English ale is definitely the Timothy Taylor Landlord, because it tastes amazing and its simple recipe is quite easy to reproduce.

I recently tried to clone the Meantime Now IPA that was designed in collaboration with the Craft Beer Channel. Quite a nice bunch of fruits from the modern English hops, though my reverse-engineered recipe differed a bit from the original that they released later. I just published the recipe video.



I was one of the guys buggering Fuller's and Asahi to make it available in the shop. It worked, but indeed sold out quickly. I managed to get 6 bottles sent to a friend in the UK and will get those in January. Am looking forward to trying to revive the mixed culture sediment and try to clone the beer.

So you are the British Pint guy?
Your Old Peculier video actually inspired me to do my latest brew that's fermenting RN. An OP, well not a clone but designed to be in the same general niche as, brew as a nod towards one of my favourites, Old Peculier.
 

Erik the Anglophile

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I used a recipe I deviced myself, gonna keg next weekend then condition and mature for ~2 months before I start pulling from it.
OG 1.056
FG 1.015
IBU ~40
Abv about 5.5 or thereabouts
GP as base, 4% Simpson light crystal, 3% DRC, 4% Simpson Chocolate malt, 8% invert 3 added late boil. 68c/60 min mash and fermented with Verdant/Liberty Bell.
90 min boil,Hops were challenger as bittering, EKG 0.5g/ L for 20 min and 0.5g/L of Styrian Goldings/Bobek thrown in with the yeast.
 

Colindo

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That definitely sounds like a great beer. Though it is quite far away from the current recipe of Old Pec, I believe. Your hops will give an interesting floral combination. Let me know how that combines with the roasted malts.
 

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The yeast is not actively swimming around, the turbulances keeping the yeast in suspension are generated by rising bubbles of co2. This force impacts dead and living cells the same way. Yeasts that clump togehter, ie. flocculate can build up bigger mass per particle, this means they settle down and do not get affected by the currents as much as single cells. Therefore, dead cells do not sink more often to the bottom than living cells, meaning by decanting off the mass at the bottom, you are removing the best flocculators, not the dead cells.
It would be great if yeast did actively swim around though. Especially if they had shark fins. Imagine how exciting that would be.
 

duncan_disorderly

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I've resurrected White Labs yeast that was 4.5 years old, so I wouldn't sweat 6 months - just do a starter.

As a general comment, if you're not a regular bitter drinker, I'd aim for a final ABV of about 4.3% - although 4.5% is pretty much the upper limit of cask beer in the real world (pubs struggle to get the necessary turnover on strong beers unless they're eg in city centres) it gets exponentially harder to make a satisfying one the lower ABV you go, so that classic Best level of 4.3% or so is the sweet spot.

And personally I'd go for a bit more bitterness, around 0.85 BU:GU. Nothing wrong with 4% and 0.75 BU:GU, it's just a bit more of a southern/commercial style that way and it's less to my personal taste.

Anything up to 10% invert is fine - again it comes down to personal taste.
Spot on, this.
 

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Fermenting yeast cells kind of do swim. CO2 acts as a yeast 'swim bladder' that affects cell buoyancy. Partly why a krausen forms. Flocculation occurs once the cells get pushed out of the wort. Then they sink back into the wort, due to gravity, and become active again, as long as there are fermentables. CO2 builds up inside the clumps of flocculated cells, the clump ruptures releasing CO2 gas, which sends the clumps whizzing off randomly through the fermenting wort. A bit like scud missiles really. Unpredictable projectiles. Dead cells sink very quickly, unless they're attached to an active flocc that gets launched out of the yeast cake. The weirdest thing is what looks like yeast murmurations, when you watch for long enough. Probably just a random trick of the brain.
 
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