English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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How much, if any, roast would be in a Burton ale from this period?
I don't think there ever was roast in a Burton Ale. Just like mild ale up to the 60s it was all coloured with sugars.

@duncan_disorderly Thornbridge seems to be doing some amazing beers. I must try to find them during my next UK visit. From what I understand they bought the Burton Union sets from Marston's, so that will be the ultimate authentic Burton Ale. Even better to hear they took advice from Ron. I wonder where they got the invert no 3 from, since two years ago Henry Kirk from Gale's said they could only use No 1 in their Prize Old Ale because Ragus does not sell less than a ton (1000 kg) of the darker ones.
 
I brewed the 1937 version a few years back that turned out nice. I used WLP030 and got an attenuation in the low 70s for an ABV in the low 7s which seems inline with the version that was brewed in 2011 from the article.
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2015/10/lets-brew-wednesday-1937-courage-kkk.html
This one seems to be from the right year: https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2013/11/lets-brew-wednesday-1923-courage-kkk.html
Haven't seen WLP030 anywhere for a long time. Is it the same as WY1275, or WY1882?
 
@Colindo
Wouldn't surprise me if they made their own invert.
On the milds and burtons and roasted malt, the common way of colouring was various caramels, but if you look in the recipes in the books strong! And mild!, you can see that in burtons a few percent of black or chocolate could occasionallybe included in the grist, so it would not be wrong to do it.
Milds, especially some northern breweries "best mild" could often have a bit of roast, not more than max 5% though, see Lee's and Boddington's milds for example. The main colour agent was dark invert and caramel though.
 
On the milds and burtons and roasted malt, the common way of colouring was various caramels, but if you look in the recipes in the books strong! And mild!, you can see that in burtons a few percent of black or chocolate could occasionallybe included in the grist, so it would not be wrong to do it.
Milds, especially some northern breweries "best mild" could often have a bit of roast, not more than max 5% though, see Lee's and Boddington's milds for example. The main colour agent was dark invert and caramel though.
You're right, the 1923 Courage recipe also has a bit of black malt. But not in an amount that would be noticeable in flavour. I have the MIld! book somewhere, will have a look.
 
I toasted the Imperial malt that is to be used for my coming stout.
Seems to have turned out good, it had deeper flavour and a bit of that sort of nutty and biscuity flavour of amber but without the sharp burnt flavour of modern amber.
 

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I have two people inside of me, one that wants to slowly stop drinking and brewing and the other one wants to buy 25kg of Imperial malt :D .

Yeah I've had like 3 pints the last 2 weeks.
But that's because I managed to stress myself into an acute gastritis since I started my university studies...

Doing home renovations, studying and being a life long blue collar worker who barely finished high school and really has no experience at all of more serious school stuff is daunting. Then throw in ADHD and me thinking "I don't need to do weekly schedules and a daily task list to get anything done"
 
100% This ticks all the boxes on a Burton Ale. But BJCP knows nothing of this beer style, of course
@Witherby Nice find! I had only checked the 2021 guidelines. Looks pretty solid to me, with most of the details pinned down. I would have mentioned that among the characteristic ingredients are also molasses and high-dextrin glucose syrup, but I guess this is less known.
They've messed around with it, they introduced it as a provisional style along with Catharina Sour, NZ Pilsner and NEIPA in 2018, but seem to now take the view that the main guidelines should be for beer as it is today (with historical beers lumped into 27), and Burton ales have disappeared/merged into modern barleywines and the winter-warmer end of strong bitters. I'm OK with that, it fits the European tradition of not sweating about styles so much.

From what I understand they bought the Burton Union sets from Marston's, so that will be the ultimate authentic Burton Ale.
They acquired (not sure how much money changed hands, they're a huge ongoing cost liability) part of a set not all of them. Epochal also took some.

Except Burton ales predate unions - unions are first recorded in their modern form in the 1860s, and their predecessors had emerged in the early 1800s, whereas Burton ale in its original form effectively died in 1822 when Russia slapped big tariffs on imported beer. Allsopp then reformulated it as a hoppier, less sweet beer for the British palate.

This is a nice history of the unions :
http://www.breweryhistory.com/journal/archive/129/Burton unions.pdf

Even better to hear they took advice from Ron. I wonder where they got the invert no 3 from, since two years ago Henry Kirk from Gale's said they could only use No 1 in their Prize Old Ale because Ragus does not sell less than a ton (1000 kg) of the darker ones.
One would have thought that it would work for Ragus to do a pre-order-only "vault" release of #3 in August or so with min order of 50kg say, specifically for the Christmas market. If anyone at Ragus is listening...? <g>
I had this this cask Burton ale last week, brewed by Thornbridge in collaboration with Kernel on the Burton Union set they acquired earlier this year from Marston's. They took advice from Ron P and based It on a 1922/23 Courage KKK recipe.
Sadly I know exactly where you are, my dad used to work around the corner in King St *many* years ago, when that area was a lot less fancy than it is now! Sadly I keep missing the Thornbridge union beers, one day...
 
One would have thought that it would work for Ragus to do a pre-order-only "vault" release of #3 in August or so with min order of 50kg say, specifically for the Christmas market. If anyone at Ragus is listening...? <g>
That would make brewing with invert so much more fun. And breweries would certainly have less issues rediscovering it.

Thanks also for the other details. I was looking for more information on Burton Unions, so the link is much appreciated.

By the way, from what I understood before I thought all those beer cleansing systems were supposed to get rid of the surplus of yeast, because that creates what is called "yeast bite", but then I recently realised many breweries in Germany skim the brown yeast off their barm mid-fermentation. Could it be that it is that brown yeast (hop resins etc) that British brewers tried to get rid off all that time ago? I never skimmed during fermentation and read previously in some German texts that it is not necessary, but am now curious if anyone has any hard facts or even scientific insight into this.
 
@duncan_disorderly Thornbridge seems to be doing some amazing beers. I must try to find them during my next UK visit. From what I understand they bought the Burton Union sets from Marston's, so that will be the ultimate authentic Burton Ale. Even better to hear they took advice from Ron. I wonder where they got the invert no 3 from, since two years ago Henry Kirk from Gale's said they could only use No 1 in their Prize Old Ale because Ragus does not sell less than a ton (1000 kg) of the darker ones.
The Union set was donated to Thornbridge by Marston's when they closed their remaining sets down earlier this year, and they also helped to install it and providing training in how to use it. A Scottish brewery also got one. These arrangements were brokered by Garrett Oliver of Brooklyn Brewery, who has relationships with Carlsberg, who bought out Marston's, and with Thornbridge. The cask version is 5.5% but they have bottled some at 7.2%. I don't know how they came about the invert. They probably had to make it themselves.

https://www.petebrown.net/2024/05/06/thornbridge-and-garrett-oliver-save-the-famous-burton-unions/

The barman who served me the Burton Ale told me that the English IPA they brew on the union set is excellent, it's called Union IPA. I'll keep my eye out for that one. The same bar is serving a cask of Thomas Hardy Ale this Thursday, I'm hoping to get down there for that too.
 
Sadly I know exactly where you are, my dad used to work around the corner in King St *many* years ago, when that area was a lot less fancy than it is now! Sadly I keep missing the Thornbridge union beers, one day...
You're not too far from source, it's worth the effort. The bar above I can cycle to in 15 minutes. Pretty handy.
 
By the way, from what I understood before I thought all those beer cleansing systems were supposed to get rid of the surplus of yeast, because that creates what is called "yeast bite", but then I recently realised many breweries in Germany skim the brown yeast off their barm mid-fermentation. Could it be that it is that brown yeast (hop resins etc) that British brewers tried to get rid off all that time ago?
My understanding is that it's another case of what is now revered heritage that originated in accountants trying to cut costs, and avoid paying people to skim yeast like the inefficient Germans. It was also a response to the challenges of industrialisation, the sheer scale of UK brewing in the 19th century created its own problems at a practical level. And something that people don't tend to talk about but I suspect was quite important - it was a response to the particular demands of Burton yeast. I think it's no coincidence that proto-unions emerged as they were starting to ramp up exports to India etc where they wanted to maximise attenuation in the brewery to avoid barrel bombs in the tropics. To get that attenuation they seem to have ended up with saison-type yeasts that don't flocculate that well (even today Marston use a different strain for cask conditioning) so needed special attention in yeast management, and generous aeration like you get in unions seems to restrain the phenols of strains like WLP037.
 
This one seems to be from the right year: https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2013/11/lets-brew-wednesday-1923-courage-kkk.html
Haven't seen WLP030 anywhere for a long time. Is it the same as WY1275, or WY1882?
I picked it during one of the vault purges and keep it alive for a while, I have not used those two yeast to comment. To be honest WLP030 was not my favorite as it was fairly clean in best bitter gravities and a little inconsistent with attenuation for me, but in the KKK it had more character and produced more fruit esters.
 
Got a question for people using gelatin, I recall I've seen @Witherby talking about his use of it.
I've had some issues with chill haze my last few batches, despite using karragenan for the last ~15 min of the boil.
I prime my kegs to about 2vol co2 and let them sit 2 weeks at room temp then about 1.5-2 weeks in the ~11c fridge before I start the keg, to get a bit more cask like feel to it.

Would it be possible to just add a bit of gelatin with the priming sugar solution i boil shortly and then let it take care of haze when I put the keg in the fridge or do I need to add it at the same time I put the kegs in the fridge?
 
Got a question for people using gelatin, I recall I've seen @Witherby talking about his use of it.
I've had some issues with chill haze my last few batches, despite using karragenan for the last ~15 min of the boil.
I prime my kegs to about 2vol co2 and let them sit 2 weeks at room temp then about 1.5-2 weeks in the ~11c fridge before I start the keg, to get a bit more cask like feel to it.

Would it be possible to just add a bit of gelatin with the priming sugar solution i boil shortly and then let it take care of haze when I put the keg in the fridge or do I need to add it at the same time I put the kegs in the fridge?
I would be scared that the gelatin coagulates and with it the priming sugar, making it unavailable to the yeast.
 
I add priming sugar and gelatine to every keg I fill and have never had a bad interaction between the two. I bloom the gelatine (half an envelope) in a cup of cold water in the microwave for 15min, then hit it with a few bursts and stir with my thermometer to get it just up to 155 to pasturize. It goes in with the beer, still warm, right on top of granulated sugar.

I don't do a closed transfer, but I fill quickly and purge the headspace a few times. I don't get any noticeable oxidation, but the leg only sits for 2 weeks at room temp, then 3 or so on the gas. I don't brew neipas. YMMV

Unless the beer is being transferred at serving temperature, this won't take the chill haze out. I don't have a good way to get the beer down to serving temp in the fermenter, so I have tried a few other things. The old method usually works petty well, but it adds time: once the keg is cold, roll/tip/shake to get the gelatine off the bottom and mixed back in, then let it settle for a few days.

Done this way, when the keg kicks, there's less than a pint of sludge in the bottom.
 
Got a question for people using gelatin, I recall I've seen @Witherby talking about his use of it.
I've had some issues with chill haze my last few batches, despite using karragenan for the last ~15 min of the boil.
I prime my kegs to about 2vol co2 and let them sit 2 weeks at room temp then about 1.5-2 weeks in the ~11c fridge before I start the keg, to get a bit more cask like feel to it.

Would it be possible to just add a bit of gelatin with the priming sugar solution i boil shortly and then let it take care of haze when I put the keg in the fridge or do I need to add it at the same time I put the kegs in the fridge?
2 ml of clarity ferm or an equivalent of brewers clarex. Bonus reduction of gluten to next to nothing.
I still use SuperF and kettle finings.
 
Got a question for people using gelatin, I recall I've seen @Witherby talking about his use of it.
I've had some issues with chill haze my last few batches, despite using karragenan for the last ~15 min of the boil.
I prime my kegs to about 2vol co2 and let them sit 2 weeks at room temp then about 1.5-2 weeks in the ~11c fridge before I start the keg, to get a bit more cask like feel to it.

Would it be possible to just add a bit of gelatin with the priming sugar solution i boil shortly and then let it take care of haze when I put the keg in the fridge or do I need to add it at the same time I put the kegs in the fridge?
My wife is vegan so it really isn’t ideal for me, so I’ve only ever used gelatin once for a Grodziskie many years ago and I added it to very cold beer in a carboy and it worked beautifully (you could see since it was in a carboy). I tend to use a floating dip tube for my British beers and long lagering for my lagers.
 
Well I got lucky again and got a third of a pint (appr 7 oz) of cask Thomas Hardy Ale 2024 today. But I'm not going to be much use to you people, sorry, cos I didn't particularly enjoy it. I hardly ever drink beers stronger than about 8%, and I mostly drink below 5%. For me the cask Thornbridge Burton Ale at 5.5% was a much nicer beer. Rich and smooth and full of flavour. The THA is all alcohol and sweetness, not my thing. We need someone who likes barley wine to review it! Here it is...

IMG_20241114_130054413.jpg
 

OK the Belgian part went ok. Terrible efficiency (60%) but at least I got most of it out during the partygile sparge. Had some wort left from the Belgian experiment, which was intended. I wanted to throw it into the gyle.

What was not intended, is that I threw it into the fermenter without thinking.

I disinfect my fermenter straight before filling in the wort with about two litres of boiling water. I did so this time as well. I threw the wort on it. .....

First idea, throw it away.

Second idea, thanks for the additional two litres of dark mild that will be in that fermenter in about one week time.

So far, so good.

The dark mild wort tastes pretty boring btw. I guess that's just how a 1.03 wort tastes like.
Ooooooook we are all very patient guys around here and I am no exception. I have bottled the dark mild last saturday and my intention is to wait till full carbonation and some additional small aging time before trying it.

Yes, that is why I have put two bottles on the heater on day one to speed up the carbonation. And that is why I do not wait for the aging.

I am having one of these right now and LET ME TELLL you, this beer is greeeeeeeat! 100% not what I intended to brew, but also equally great. Bob Ross would be so proud of me, this is the definition of a happy little accident.

The beer is not really dark for starters. It is more of a light brown. It could go over the counter as a darker bitter. Then it has way too many ibus for a mild, it tastes bitter, which is not what a dark mild should taste like if you ask me, but what do I know.

So what do I have here? I have here the best low abv bitter I have ever brewed. It is not even seven days old and it already has GREAT foam stability. It has the perfect amount of carbonation for a bitter, it has the perfect bitterness for a bitter, gentleman let me tell you, this beer is close to what I would call perfection within its abv range.

Anybody had a brakspear bitter? That is the one that comes to my mind when I am having this one here. Huge fan of brakspears bitter btw.
 
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My main concern is that seemingly, amber malt was still diastatic at that time, indicating it would have been a lot more lightly roasted and less intense than the stuff we have today...
I'm not planning to roast it hard, just 20-30 min at 130c and stirring it a few times during that time.
Have you seen this? It might make you re-think that approach.
https://brewingbeerthehardway.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/diastatic-brown-malt/
Also this ...
https://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2015/02/making-diastatic-brown-malt.html?m=1
 
Interresting reads, but both describe malt making in earlier periods than I am after though.
I am however going to increase the temperature a bit next time I try making a batch for an historical recipe, 30 min at 150c with some stirring halfway through should be good.
 
Things are much more regional than that - Oxford is right on the edge of Fuller's territory in terms of their pubs. However they're pretty widely available in supermarkets - if you want to take some back, Waitrose has a particularly close relationship and will usually have things like the porter and Golden Pride, and Vintage when in season (ie about now). Historically the big local brewers were Morrells (beers ended up with Marston, most of the pubs with Greene King) and Morland of Abingdon (bought by Greene King). So as you can see a lot of the pubs have ended up with Greene King, who make soso beer (although controversially Abbot did get a prize at the last GBBF) and more importantly don't keep it that well in general. Fortunately they usually make it clear on the sign that it's a Greene King pub (not always true of some of the other chains) so you can walk on by...

The thing with cask beer, particularly trad brown beer, is it's so fragile and throughput is critical - a beer can be enthralling at 7pm on a Friday night, but a pint from the same cask at 11am on a Tuesday can be dead. So bear that in mind, although if you're only here for a weekend then that is less of an issue. But November is one of the quietest months for pubs - the weather is usually some of the worst of the year, and people are saving for Christmas. One tip at a quiet time is to discretely look over the bar at the driptrays to see which beer has the most throughput.

Beer quality is also hugely dependent on skill in the cellar, so a place that is good for beer can go "bad" overnight due to a change in publican or supply arrangements. So be wary of recommendations that are even 6 months old, they can be out of date. And don't believe any opening times in third-party sources likes CAMRA guides, the pub's Facebook is the only reliable source of opening times and even then not always - things got particularly bad during Covid-19 but have settled somewhat since. The CAMRA Good Beer Guide (voted by CAMRA members, 2025 edition has just come out, not to be confused with the pay-to-play Good Pub Guide) is a good starting point, but you're lucky that Oxford is the sort of place that has a pretty active local branch and for beer quality I would stick to the shortlists for their Pubs of the Year :

City : The Grapes, Lamb & Flag, Mason’s Arms (Headington), Rose & Crown, Royal Blenheim, White Hart (Headington), White Hart (Wolvercote), White Rabbit

Outlying : Abingdon Arms (Beckley), Brewery Tap (Abingdon), Broad Face (Abingdon), Crafty Pint (Witney), Eagle Tavern (Witney), King’s Arms (Kidlington)

The Blenheim and the (former Morland, so it's a real pub and not a shed in an industrial park) Brewery Tap are the current champions. I hadn't realised Titanic had got down that far - I'd say that (given you should get a good one there) their Plum Porter is probably the kind of thing you are thinking of. It's a cult favourite that has spawned a whole genre of dark-fruit-in-dark-beers that you just don't really get in the US. Some people think it's too synthetic, but it's perfect for a wet November night by the fire. The rest of the Titanic range is a bit meh - the cherry dark is a decent attempt to create another hit like Plum Porter, Anchor's OK and I've a soft spot for the seldom-brewed Lifeboat which is a sort of tawny bitter - but if you're only passing through then Plum Porter is the one to have. They share the Blenheim with White Horse - Show Pony and Black Beauty are probably the picks there.

The CAMRA branch have a slightly out of date (2022) map of the main city centre pubs :
https://oxford.camra.org.uk/wordpre...2/10/City-centre-pubs-with-times-Oct-2022.pdf
The Eagle & Child is the famous one where Tolkien used to hang out with CS Lewis and others, it's been closed since the pandemic but is meant to be opening some time soon, which would normally mean either in time for the Christmas trade or not until Easter. The Lamb & Flag is also good for literary connections if that's your thing, Thomas Hardy and Graham Greene.

The pretty pubs tend to be owned by the big chains which doesn't normally correlate with the best beer or cellarmanship. And Oxford for me doesn't quite hit the spot - lots of perfectly nice pubs, but they tend to have been either gentrified or touristified-into-pastiche, they don't quite have the character of say York. But the CAMRA list of heritage interiors is useful if you're looking for "pretty" pubs somewhere you don't know - in Oxford there's the Bear, the Rose & Crown and King's Arms.

If you're there for the weekend then for "pub experience" rather than necessarily "best beer", you want to have a bit of a walk around late Sunday morning - ideally out in the countryside but in town will do - and then go to a nice pub for Sunday lunch (the heritage list can be great for finding pretty ones out in the country). It's a thing.

You probably won't have time, but if you want to experience the full range of modern British pubgoing then you should try and find a micropub converted from an old shop. Oxford's too prosperous to have many, but if you're in Headington the Tile Shop looks a classic example of the genre. They tend to be very stripped down and tiny, so you have to talk to people, they're not places to bury your head in your phone.

Unfortunately Taylor beers are quite fussy, they need careful cellaring and conditioning time which they seldom get in pubs that don't specialise in them - and more time requires more space, which city centre cellars tend not to have. Also Landlord has become the kind of beer that gets bought on its reputation by pubs that don't specialise in cask, and then doesn't get kept particularly well. To be fair, Taylor's are one of the few breweries that actually goes round monitoring pubs outside its estate, but it's tough when a pub doesn't really care about cellaring. It's possible there's somewhere in Oxford that's known for its Landlord in the way that say the Bricklayer’s Arms by Putney Bridge in London is. I don't know, but I fear it's unlikely. It'll probably be OK though, enough to give you an idea.

Oxford is generally south of the sparkler divide, but if you see a lineup of handpulls with the odd sparkler on for the northern beers then that's a good indication of a publican that gives a damn. Very rare down south though.
The SIBA (BA equivalent) awards give you a pretty good idea of what the good breweries are, even if you probably won't find a lot of the specific beers which will have been and gone. Oxfordshire sits awkwardly on the boundary between the Midlands and southeast, neither of which annoyingly have their keg results on a convenient page so you'll have to do with the national ones for keg but these are their cask winners:
http://beercomp.barsbank.com/?page_id=6094
http://beercomp.barsbank.com/?page_id=6161

One brewery I would look out for is Salopian, which don't get nearly enough credit for their relentless high quality cask - over the last decade or so they've averaged over 1 medal/year at GBBF with something like 6 different beers without ever quite winning the big one, no other brewery comes close. Darwin's Origin is the epitome of modern bitter (or at least, before the haze bros took over...), Shropshire Gold is a great beer for downing by the gallon.

The two star keg breweries locally are Siren and Elusive, neighbours on the same trading estate. Siren won CAMRA's Champion Beer of Britain with Broken Dream, a 6.5% lactose coffee stout which you will rarely see on cask (nice one CAMRA) but definitely worth seeking out, particularly in rubbish weather. Elusive are instantly recognisable for their branding which is inspired by 1980s computer games, and their owner Andy Parker is sort of the British Jamil Zainasheff, a vociferous supporter of homebrewing and in fact recently wrote a book on homebrewing with Jamil for CAMRA. Oregon Trail WCIPA is their big hit, which I guess won't be too new for you other than you can sometimes find it on cask. It is great though.

Talking of volumes - remember that an imperial pint is 19.2 US floz so a half is just under 10US floz, but that sort of correlates with the lower ABVs. You don't get the range of serving sizes that you do in the US, legally draught beer has to be served in multiples of a third or half a pint. In general trad beer under 5% only comes in halves and pints, craft/keg places going into higher ABVs will tend to serve in multiples of a third, but it's not hard and fast. One side effect is that tasting paddles are not very common - they will be clearly advertised if they are offered. Pubs are generally fine with giving you tasters if it's not busy, but don't be that guy wanting to waste staff time with tasters on a heaving Friday night. In general if there's three or fewer handpumps then you're expected to know what you want and drink it by the pint, any more than that and there's more of a culture of "taste" rather than "maximum volume of alcohol" so it's fine to have halves and ask for tasters if it's quiet. Be a bit wary of places with say 10 cask beers, with a few exceptions they generally don't have the throughput to maintain quality. What little culture we had of taking draught out in growlers etc was killed off by recent tax changes intended to support pubs(!), but you can take out smallpack, and there's a bit of a subgenre developed of bottle shops that do a bit of crafty keg on draught as well.

Finally some reading - this series of articles from Jeff Alworth just before Covid-19 gives a good overview of the British scene from a US perspective :
https://www.beervanablog.com/beervana/2019/9/10/juicy-bitter-on-cask

There some hardy souls drinking in every pub in the Good Beer Guide - "Retired" Martin Taylor has completed it and is a great chronicler of smalltown Britain, Simon "BRAPA" Everitt (old site) is just over halfway through. Both well worth a read for those wanting their fix of British pubs by proxy.

The guides provided by the US military authorities for GIs in WWII are kinda fun - they describe a different world in many ways, but about 25% of it still holds :
https://www.johnbarber.com/wp-conte...s-for-American-Servicemen-in-Britain-1942.pdf


This post and the provided references to CAMRA helped me tremendously in navigating the pub landscape of Oxford!

Upfront I was a tad nervous that I might end up not actually enjoying cask ale - but I did like it a lot! Not saying that's the one and only way I want to drink beer from now on, but I am frustrated that cask ale is impossible to find here in Germany.

It was also really interesting to experience first hand just how different the same beer can be. One night, I went to St Aldate's tavern as it had been mentioned in the CAMRA guide as a decent pub serving Timothy Taylor landlord. And it was rather disappointing: it had virtually none of that "bright citrus" the beer supposedly has, and I could not taste the malt either.
The next day, I was wandering around and went to a nearby pub, just because it was right there and cute and cozy. Had another Landlord there and - bam! - entirely different beer, pretty close to what I had imagined it'd be like. I asked the staff about the cask - thereby triggering a mild panic that there was something wrong with it 😅 - and she told me they had tapped it just last night, on line with my suspicion it might be a matter of "age". (Although I do not know about the state of the cask at St Aldate's.)

To me, that was pretty crazy to see. I mean, you also have *some* variation between different venues in Germany, but it's much less pronounced. And when you have a place that does a good job, then the beer is going to be the same every time.
So now I've tried a number of bitters and whatnot - a somewhat problematic number of them, actually,.given the short time span - but I feel it's impossible to say "I like that beer", as it seems to be more "I liked that beer at that pub at that time". I suppose you only get to know a beer after having had it a couple of times at different places. Anyways, Landlord and Harvey's Sussex Best were pretty great.

One other thing that really surprised me is how open and welcoming the English are when they're in a pub. Everyone hates a tourist, and the people in Oxford have all the more reason to, but at almost every pub I ended up in a conversation with some strangers, and everyone was wonderful. I really enjoyed the atmosphere inside the pubs, which cater to different people with different interests all at once: you have the older gentleman in the back reading a book, small family gatherings for lunch, friends meeting for drinks, the regulars that come here to chat with one another and the staff, then later at night young people kicking back a couple pints in no time, all the while offering an incredible selection of beers which in Germany, you'd only find at hip dedicated "craft beer bars" in the major cities.
I really wish we had a pub culture like that.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I really really really hated that plum porter 😂
 
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@monkeymath I had similar experiences in the UK, both the great atmosphere in pubs as well as the bar staff expecting complaints when you're trying to compliment them. British people have difficulties with compliments, I believe.

My beer experience was less varied, probably because I had pubs I visited regularly where I knew the ale was good. I think you will find over time that the same pubs deliver consistently good or bad ale, no matter from which brewery. And then you might just start avoiding the others. Though I have to say that on the few occasions where I had a really bad pint and complained, I straight away got a fresh one which was in prime condition afterwards.

Not saying that's the one and only way I want to drink beer from now on, but I am frustrated that cask ale is impossible to find here in Germany.
Are you going to German HBCon? I will be serving Cask Ale there, just as I did last year.
 
So, my next brewday is going to be a bit complicated. I want to brew more than usual, at least 20L, and it is going to be served during the open tap of that HBCon I keep mentioning. In order to brew something special, I want to go for a Burton Ale and serve it from hand pump.

Now I have some experience with Young's Winter Warmer and the goal is to have a high amount of dextrin and some complex fruit flavours from molasses. My issue so far has been that the attenuation was always too high. The reason for that being that the only high-quality molasses I have is Black Treacle, which is molasses diluted with Golden Syrup. So I get a very high fermentability from that, which counters the low fermentability that I get from either a high mash or a high-dextrin sugar addition. My current idea is to use tons of crystal to get that complexity without any increased fermentability and not use any molasses.

Recipe: OG 1.060, 23L, 40 IBU, 50 EBC
65% Pale malt
10% Warminster Crystal 150
5% Crisp Crystal 240
20% Grafschafter Heller Syrup (high dextrin sugar)
Mash at 66°C/150°F

90 min boil, bittered with Challenger
1g/l EKG in the last 10 minutes
EKG dry-hop, probably with a linen bag in the keg.

Yeast: Weihenstephan W-100, one of four British strains that they have in their yeast bank, which I recently purchased.

Any tips, comments regarding my approach would be much appreciated!
 
So, my next brewday is going to be a bit complicated. I want to brew more than usual, at least 20L, and it is going to be served during the open tap of that HBCon I keep mentioning. In order to brew something special, I want to go for a Burton Ale and serve it from hand pump.

Now I have some experience with Young's Winter Warmer and the goal is to have a high amount of dextrin and some complex fruit flavours from molasses. My issue so far has been that the attenuation was always too high. The reason for that being that the only high-quality molasses I have is Black Treacle, which is molasses diluted with Golden Syrup. So I get a very high fermentability from that, which counters the low fermentability that I get from either a high mash or a high-dextrin sugar addition. My current idea is to use tons of crystal to get that complexity without any increased fermentability and not use any molasses.

Recipe: OG 1.060, 23L, 40 IBU, 50 EBC
65% Pale malt
10% Warminster Crystal 150
5% Crisp Crystal 240
20% Grafschafter Heller Syrup (high dextrin sugar)
Mash at 66°C/150°F

90 min boil, bittered with Challenger
1g/l EKG in the last 10 minutes
EKG dry-hop, probably with a linen bag in the keg.

Yeast: Weihenstephan W-100, one of four British strains that they have in their yeast bank, which I recently purchased.

Any tips, comments regarding my approach would be much appreciated!
This is purely my opinion, and I've barely brewed a Burton ale (I've done some similar stuff), but I wouldn't use all that crystal and I wouldn't use black treacle, myself. I think black treacle is a risky ingredient, for me at least, capable of dominating.

If I do a Burton ale I will try the Pattinson recipe for 1923 Courage Burton ale that was brewed recently by Thornbridge and Kernel, because it was good. No crystal, but I'm ok with some crystal, just not shed loads.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.c...znU8z3TMd1bm6eFZYI/s1600/Courage_1923_KKK.jpg

The tricky ingredient is invert no.3. I would maybe try making some, but more likely use muscovado sugar.
 
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Really like British ales, preferably on a beer engine. Hard to come by in aus ( cheaply anyway! ).

I like simple recipes with Maris Otter, and a small amount of dark crystal, maybe 1%. Or milds, but even then i like them quite simple, and, God forbid, with not much crystal malt, and sometimes none.

I used to use 1469 and the like, but really enjoy Verdant now. Really liked Burton ale, but found it finicky. Had great beers with it, but also average beers with it. Dont like S04 or Nottingham.

Sacrilege, but i also have a nitro setup. Carb with C02, then serve with Nitro through a nitro tap seems to be a good compromise ( just cant be ice cold though! ). If i had a beer engine i'd only drink them through that. Or i bottle them
 
@duncan_disorderly I'm not sure how Courage did it back in the day, but they got 66% attenuation as per recipe and I'm no where near going to get that with 14% invert sugar. I did a beer like that once and had 82% attenuation. My guess would be that they used a proprietary sugar and Ron replaced that with Invert No 3.
This time I really want to get that full mouthfeel with low attenuation (dextrins, not maltotriose).

I hear you and @Cheshire Cat though. I could cut down on the crystal and use some black malt for colour. Maybe @Miraculix can chime in on whether he thinks 5% of Crystal 240 is too much, since he used it recently. By the way, the 1937 recipe of Courage KKK also uses 10% Crystal 150, so that should be in the right ballpark. Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby uses 18% and I like that beer. Not afraid of lots of crystal. Not afraid of Black Treacle either, with 5% you can get quite a nice complex fruitiness with plenty of liquorice without it being overpowering. Just too much attenuation, as I mentioned earlier.
 
Just made some hopefully invert 3 with 1/3 white, 1/3 Muscovado and 1/3 coconut sugar, nice steady simmer for an hour, will simmer again for another couple of hours or so during the mash and boil for a dark mild.
Planning the brew on thursday, so plenty of time to invert.
 
@duncan_disorderly I'm not sure how Courage did it back in the day, but they got 66% attenuation as per recipe and I'm no where near going to get that with 14% invert sugar.
Don't read too much into the FGs you see on Ron's recipes, he went into detail somewhere about why but there's all sorts of reasons why it's probably an underestimate of the gravity of the final beer in the glass, from hop creep after dry-hopping to Brett in the barrels.

And some of it is just poorer malting/barley varieties. But they varied a lot - for instance, Truman were getting 84% in 1939.
the 1937 recipe of Courage KKK also uses 10% Crystal 150, so that should be in the right ballpark.
Conversely the 1909 Barclay Perkins KK is only 3% crystal and before the 1880 Malt Tun Act they were 100% base malt. But the 20th century ones were generally around 10% maize and 10% invert #2-3.

Thornbridge recently did one in their newly-acquired unions and this is their comment :
The malt grist is fairly simple – pale and mild ale malts combine with crystal malts to bring a rich sweetness, a little black malt added at the end of mashing to emulate the rather heavy addition of caramel. Lashings of Goldings hops added at the start and end of boil, along with hefty blocks of my favourite brewing sugar, the dark and toffee-like ‘Invert No.3’. These days we have to make our own, using Invert no.2 (the brewing sugar we use in the Union IPA) and a pail of treacle-like cane molasses.

Treacle can work in beer but only in small amounts, a little goes a long way - for instance Fuller's use 2.3% in their Imperial Porter.
 
Treacle can work in beer but only in small amounts, a little goes a long way - for instance Fuller's use 2.3% in their Imperial Porter.
I used 2.5% in a 7.2% strong ale ("Imperial Special Bitter") along with 5% golden syrup, with 5% extra light crystal and 2% Crystal 180.
It was very good but I don't think I'd want to go higher, it brings a slightly liquorice flavour that I could see becoming very overbearing very quickly.
 
@Northern_Brewer Thanks for your input. You are of course right about the final gravity, and hop creep would also be an issue. The actual final gravities are the ones he quotes from his Whitbread gravity book. I found an overview post here that seems conclusive. Courage and Barclay Perkins end up at 75% most of the time. Including hop creep that would mean the beers themselves were quite high in dextrins, in my opinion. But of course it is difficult to say for certain.

Maybe I should specify that my main example is Young's Winter Warmer, which uses 7% Crystal 150 and 20% of a sugar mixture consisting of high-dextrin glucose syrup, molasses and brewer's caramel. I know it has 70% attenuation, no dry-hop and therefore a full body when drunk. That is the stuff I want to emulate, but with crystal instead of molasses.

Something I just realised is that I can also use the brewer's caramel I have to increase the final gravity. That would work also for colouring. So I might cut back on the crystal and use some caramel for fullness. Thanks again to everyone for their input.

Treacle can work in beer but only in small amounts, a little goes a long way - for instance Fuller's use 2.3% in their Imperial Porter.
And 2.7% in their Imperial Stout.

By the way, I had bad experiences with using a standard German molasses, which is much more concentrated and at 5% made the beer absolutely undrinkable. But Black Treacle is heavily thinned down and less adstringent, so I find 5% in a 6% beer quite agreeable.
 
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