English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Erik the Anglophile]

Let's Brew Wednesday - 1885 Kirkstall L

As it's still Mild Month, I though I'd run another old-timey Mild recipe. And quite an unusual one. The Milds of the final decades of the 19...

barclayperkins.blogspot.com

I've been eyeing this recipe for a while, and plan on getting a few kg of Chevalier when the only Swedish retailer who has it get it back in stock...
For those of you who have used Chev, can I do a regular 1-step infusion mash? I guess something like a 68c/2hr mash is to recommend to ensure full conversion and as I understand you may get some clarity issues with a standard 60 min mash.
And adjust the hop additions to yield ~10% more IBU than I actually want, right?

 

[Miraculix]

Let's Brew Wednesday - 1885 Kirkstall L

As it's still Mild Month, I though I'd run another old-timey Mild recipe. And quite an unusual one. The Milds of the final decades of the 19...

barclayperkins.blogspot.com

I've been eyeing this recipe for a while, and plan on getting a few kg of Chevalier when the only Swedish retailer who has it get it back in stock...
For those of you who have used Chev, can I do a regular 1-step infusion mash? I guess something like a 68c/2hr mash is to recommend to ensure full conversion and as I understand you may get some clarity issues with a standard 60 min mash.
And adjust the hop additions to yield ~10% more IBU than I actually want, right?

Coversion should be done in under 30 minutes. What I would do is include a protein rest at 55c for 10-15 minutes, followed by a hochkurz mash. Otherwise attenuation will be relatively low.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Problem is I mash in a cooler bag and don't own a AOI system, making step-mashes a bit difficult...

 

[Pennine]

Chev has cleared really well for me in both single infusion or step mash as above. I think the flavor is better in a hochkurz like mash above, but I have never done it head to head so in don't know for sure. Single infusion for 60 min worked well enough for me for a couple batches.

 

[Miraculix]

Problem is I mash in a cooler bag and don't own a AOI system, making step-mashes a bit difficult...

No Problem, Google "brewers friend Mash Infusion calculator". I use this one all the time, works pretty well.

 

[Miraculix]

Chev has cleared really well for me in both single infusion or step mash as above. I think the flavor is better in a hochkurz like mash above, but I have never done it head to head so in don't know for sure. Single infusion for 60 min worked well enough for me for a couple batches.

I also never had clearing problems.

Only thing I want to add is, give it time to age. One month minimum. And then another one.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I suppose using that, starting the mash rather thick for the protein rest then adding hot water to get to my mash temp would work.
Is a hoch-kurz vital? I did a 68c/120 min mash with my Imperial Brown Stout containing nearly 30% roasted and toasted malt and got a decent AA by that and a bit of sugar.
A long single step mash was what the Brits themselves usually employed by that time.
@Miraculix

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

The reason for a longer mash is that I came under the assumption Chevalier tends to yield less fermentable sugars than more modern barley.

 

[Miraculix]

I suppose using that, starting the mash rather thick for the protein rest then adding hot water to get to my mash temp would work.
Is a hoch-kurz vital? I did a 68c/120 min mash with my Imperial Brown Stout containing nearly 30% roasted and toasted malt and got a decent AA by that and a bit of sugar.
A long single step mash was what the Brits themselves usually employed by that time.
@Miraculix

Yes, starting thick, thinning it out with every step is the key. I go to full volume with the last step, but this is obviously not a must

 

[Miraculix]

The reason for a longer mash is that I came under the assumption Chevalier tends to yield less fermentable sugars than more modern barley.

I think it's the high protein content that is the main factor of lower attenuation here. That's why I incorporated the protein rest into my schedule. I don't see why beta and alpha should create different sugars here, but who knows.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I guess a 55c/10min protein rest followed by a 67c/60 min mash would suffice then.
Suppose I could add minerals etc with the second water addition.
Don't want it to attenuate more than around ~75%.

 

[Miraculix]

I guess a 55c/10min protein rest followed by a 67c/60 min mash would suffice then.
Suppose I could add minerals etc with the second water addition.
Don't want it to attenuate more than around ~75%.

I've had 70% with Nottingham, 10% invert plus the above 3step mash schedule.

I've read in Ron's blog that they used to do similar stepped mashing techniques bitd.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Will use my "house mix" with Brewly English and m42, should perform similair to notty.
68c/2h mash with a protein rest it is then, hoch-kurz + protein rest seems a bit too much faff...
+ 2h boil, gonna be a long brewday when I get around to brewing this...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Huh. I hadn't realised that Miles Templeman who was the brains at Whitbread behind the success of Boddingtons and Stella during the 1990s, joined Shepherd Neame in 2002 as a non-executive director and then chairman. His CEO at Sheps was Jonathan Neame, who was a non-exec at St Austell 2002-18. So it seems that at some point Sheps swapped their old multistrain for a "Whitbread yeast" and subsequently passed it on to St Austell, although sources vary on whether it originally came via Fremlins (whose former Rigden brewery in Faversham made Whitbread Trophy until 1990) or Thwaites (miles away in Lancashire). Maybe both at different times, who knows.

Anyway if the Sheps yeast originated in a Whitbread production strain around 1990, then it might be rather similar to 1318. Which in turn means it might be interesting to try Brewlab Kent, or yeast harvested from 1698 or Proper Job, in a hazy...

See here for the original discussion with one of the Malt Miller guys who's a fan of St Austell, which may explain why they've started selling Cornish Gold, a Munich-ish malt made from Cornish barley originally exclusively for St Austell by Tucker's, and now by Simpson. It also may explain why, although TMM have started selling Brewlab slopes, the Brewlab Kent was out of stock!

Tribute style ale anybody done one ?

I always use a little Black Malt to adjust the colour of my brews: it's an adjunct grain so can be steeped rather than mashed. I use a bit of it in many brews as the colour of other grains such as Crystal Malt can vary a bit. Thanks. I was thinking post fermentation. It looks ok and tastes...

www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk

 

[kmarkstevens]

Huh. I hadn't realised that Miles Templeman who was the brains at Whitbread behind the success of Boddingtons and Stella during the 1990s, joined Shepherd Neame in 2002 as a non-executive director and then chairman. His CEO at Sheps was Jonathan Neame, who was a non-exec at St Austell 2002-18. So it seems that at some point Sheps swapped their old multistrain for a "Whitbread yeast" and subsequently passed it on to St Austell, although sources vary on whether it originally came via Fremlins (whose former Rigden brewery in Faversham made Whitbread Trophy until 1990) or Thwaites (miles away in Lancashire). Maybe both at different times, who knows.

Anyway if the Sheps yeast originated in a Whitbread production strain around 1990, then it might be rather similar to 1318. Which in turn means it might be interesting to try Brewlab Kent, or yeast harvested from 1698 or Proper Job, in a hazy...

See here for the original discussion with one of the Malt Miller guys who's a fan of St Austell, which may explain why they've started selling Cornish Gold, a Munich-ish malt made from Cornish barley originally exclusively for St Austell by Tucker's, and now by Simpson. It also may explain why, although TMM have started selling Brewlab slopes, the Brewlab Kent was out of stock!

Tribute style ale anybody done one ?

I always use a little Black Malt to adjust the colour of my brews: it's an adjunct grain so can be steeped rather than mashed. I use a bit of it in many brews as the colour of other grains such as Crystal Malt can vary a bit. Thanks. I was thinking post fermentation. It looks ok and tastes...

www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk

sweet baby Jesus, where do you come up with this kind of pedigree?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Anyone with any experience regarding Simpsons brown malt?
Placed an order on some stuff yesterday and took a bag of their brown, it is a bit darker than most other maltsters versions(~450 ebc vs ~140-200 ebc).
Can I use it as ordinary brown? Is it closer to brown malt of the late Victorian era than the lighter stuff?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Will use my "house mix" with Brewly English and m42, should perform similair to notty.
68c/2h mash with a protein rest it is then, hoch-kurz + protein rest seems a bit too much faff...
+ 2h boil, gonna be a long brewday when I get around to brewing this...

I made a bitter with 60% Maris Otter and 40% Chevallier.
90 minutes mash at 65C
Used Crossmyloof Beoir yeast @20C
Brew house efficiency 66%, attenuation 85%

 

[Shenanigans]

A question for the experts
I added a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast to my last online order as it had a huge discount.

I'm not sure what I will use if for yet but the White Labs site says it's an English yeast.
I read it's associated with Tomas Hardy's Barleywine but is it normally only used to get good attenuation in a high gravity beer or would it be nice in a low/normal gravity British ale?
Of course it would work but I was just wondering if it has a nice flavour profile or if it would be better to spend my time brewing with the more popular strains like 1318, WLP007, 1469 .. etc?

 

[Miraculix]

A question for the experts
I added a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast to my last online order as it had a huge discount.

I'm not sure what I will use if for yet but the White Labs site says it's an English yeast.
I read it's associated with Tomas Hardy's Barleywine but is it normally only used to get good attenuation in a high gravity beer or would it be nice in a low/normal gravity British ale?
Of course it would work but I was just wondering if it has a nice flavour profile or if it would be better to spend my time brewing with the more popular strains like 1318, WLP007, 1469 .. etc?

Isn't that one diastatic?

To quote MTF:

"White Labs now reports that the strains WLP045, WLP073, WLP099, WLP545, WLP566, WLP570, WLP590, WLP644, WLP740, and WLP885 are potentially diastatic (thanks to "thcipriani's" python script), however, they do not designate if these strains actually ferment dextrins."

So it might be diastatic. Would be interesting to see if it would be possible to replicate the old Boddingtons PA with it? @Northern_Brewer, any idea? It is possibly diastatic and English. Sounds good to me?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Perhaps a mix of 099, Verdant and Notti?
I've seen some mentions when I've been reading around on old-school boddies that appearantly it was quite fruity/estery.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

A question for the experts
I added a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast to my last online order as it had a huge discount.

I'm not sure what I will use if for yet but the White Labs site says it's an English yeast.

WLP099 is a funny one, per past discussions on Suregork's site, it seems to be a 2-strain, a diastatic beer yeast (to smash up dextrins) and a wine yeast (for alcohol tolerance).

I've not used it but my understanding is that...it wouldn't be one's first choice of yeast, unless you need the high-alcohol thing.

Also the whole Thomas Hardy yeast story is...complicated, but Ron Pattinson has published several recipes for it if that's your thing.

 

[Colindo]

A shop near me has recently asked me if Thomas Hardy Ale is anything of interest. Apparently the Italian company that bought Thomas Hardy is selling their strong beers through wine distributors, so it is a bit of un unusual buy. Might be able to taste it soon and am considering doing a comparison with the Prize Old Ale I bought in November.

Interesting to read about their yeasts now, especially that it might be a twin strain.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Interesting to read about their yeasts now, especially that it might be a twin strain.

I'd always be cautious about making any links between what's sold by the yeast labs and breweries, the routes to a lab's freezer are always complicated and usually involve simplification of multistrains and lots of generations in between with mutations aplenty. We just don't know for sure in many cases exactly how they got there, and whether eg labels got mixed up at some point.

And that caution applies in spades to something like THA which has been produced at several different breweries yet all were labelled the same so what may have gone into the history books may reflect different processes that happened at different times, but never all to the same bottle of beer.

And also as a "special" it seems to have been treated somewhat differently, for instance it appears to have had a separate conditioning yeast added in at least some of its incarnations, and one story has it that this was a "lager yeast".

Personally my suspicion is that whatever WLP099 came from, was conditioned with a wine yeast + sugar, and that wine yeast found its way into WLP099 along with one member of whatever multistrain did the primary fermentation. But I can't prove it.

 

[shoreman]

Here’s my latest Landlord-inspired Pale Ale. I’ve brewed this a few times and really enjoy the hop combo. Turned out great.

100% golden promise
Fuggle, EKG, Styrian Goldings
Verdant

Bottle Conditioned

 

[bwible]

A question for the experts
I added a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast to my last online order as it had a huge discount.

I'm not sure what I will use if for yet

A Sam Adams Triple Bock clone?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Here’s my latest Landlord-inspired Pale Ale. I’ve brewed this a few times and really enjoy the hop combo. Turned out great.

100% golden promise
Fuggle, EKG, Styrian Goldings
Verdant

Bottle Conditioned

View attachment 815947

Landlord has about 50g of Black Malt but that looks a great pint.

 

[shoreman]

Landlord has about 50g of Black Malt but that looks a great pint.

Yeah that’s why I say I’m “inspired” by that beer, just taking what is on their website for ingredients - no brewer will ever “clone” it

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Just started the mash for a Yorkshire-ish Best Bitter.
20L batch, 83% eff, est OG 1.040/35 IBU
Simpson GP as base
3.5% Simpson Crystal Dark
5% wheat malt
10% invert 2
Maybe a bit of caramel colorant if the wort looks a bit too pale.

Hops are Challenger for bittering @ 60
30g @ 20 50/50 EKG/Bramling X
15g dry hop with the yeast 10g/5g EKG/Bramling X.
Based on my latest batches with the m42/Brewly English mix I expect ~80% AA.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Oh, and I will try a sort of pseudo open fermentation.
I discovered those perforated lids for my S-shaped air locks fit well on that rubber thingy that goes in the hole in the lid on the fermenting bucket, so I will put that in place of the air lock and just put the lid on without pushing it locked and keep it "open" until fermentation slows down a bit.

 

[Miraculix]

Oh, and I will try a sort of pseudo open fermentation.
I discovered those perforated lids for my S-shaped air locks fit well on that rubber thingy that goes in the hole in the lid on the fermenting bucket, so I will put that in place of the air lock and just put the lid on without pushing it locked and keep it "open" until fermentation slows down a bit.

I think for open fermentation, a good air exchange is a key factor. Meaning, if there is only a small opening, the co2 will push out continuously allowing little oxygen to flow in. If I do open fermentation, I open my speidel fermenter completely, covering the relatively wide opening with something like a biab material to keep out insects. Works well but havw not tried with a small opening like you are suggesting.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I figured since I use a plastic bucket with an opening as wide as the bucket it-self, some air will come in through the small gap between the lid and the bucket as it's not pushed down.
Maybe I can lift it a few centimeters tonight, tomorrow morning and tomorrow evening to "ventilate "a little and see if it's time to seal it by Tuesday morning...

 

[Miraculix]

I figured since I use a plastic bucket with an opening as wide as the bucket it-self, some air will come in through the small gap between the lid and the bucket as it's not pushed down.
Maybe I can lift it a few centimeters tonight, tomorrow morning and tomorrow evening to "ventilate "a little and see if it's time to seal it by Tuesday morning...

Why not just leaving the lid off and and cover the opening with a kitchen towel? You can fixate it with a string or rubberband.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I am not brave enough for that, and I have no sanitized towel or something like that prepared...

 

[Miraculix]

I am not brave enough for that, and I have no sanitized towel or something like that prepared...

No need to. It won't touch the beer, just use a clean towel from the drawer or wherwever you keep the clean ones.

Just make sure that you replace it with an air lock before fermentation finishes! If you miss the spot, a quick and dirty insurance is to add 50-100g of sugar, directly before air locking it. This will push out most of the oxygen in the head space and take care of the one in solution.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I'll go with the lid loosely on for now, will look into making some sort of net cover for the bucket for future brews though.

 

[HM-2]

Old ale is now a fair bit older, and definitely better for it.

Doesn't look it here due to lighting but it's almost crystal clear. Rich and nutty with a little floral orange, and surprisingly easy drinking for 7.5%.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Many stronger and/or lightly roasty beers often benefit from sitting in the keg 2-3 months before serving IMO.
My OP inspired ale sat for almost 3 months and I can tell it probably would have been a bit sharp if served mild.

 

[Miraculix]

Many stronger and/or lightly roasty beers often benefit from sitting in the keg 2-3 months before serving IMO.
My OP inspired ale sat for almost 3 months and I can tell it probably would have been a bit sharp if served mild.

The stronger the more time. My barleywine reached it's peak after 1.5 years. Now it is constant since half a year. Most of the bitters I brew are best after 2 to 3 months, even the low abv (3%-3,5% abv) ones.

I think the beers brewed by us homenbrewers are drunk way too early in 95% of the cases. Man I am impatient myself... When I brew a bitter, the last 5 bottles are ALWAYS the best.

 

[Shenanigans]

A Sam Adams Triple Bock clone?

Is there a recipe for it somewhere?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Anybody got any input on this crazy idea of mine?
I drank my last bottle of Broughton's Champion Double Ale last weekend, and thought I could brew something similair myself, so I started looking up the beer a bit, turns out it's a blend of a stronger Scotch Ale and Stout Jock, their stout/porter.
I assume the blend is not of 2 finished ales, but that it's done either after the mash in the boiler, or after the boil in the fermenter, and that I will not achieve something similair without actually doing a blend of some sortSo I set out to create a recipe that in my mind might produce a vaguely similair ale.
And also these 2 half size worts, the lighter ale will get my Mild/Dark/Malty ale profile (80Na, 230 Cl, 130 So4) and the Porter my Stout/Porter water (100 Na, 300 Cl, 85 So4) and will be blended in the boiler.
The 2 worts are made at the strenght they are at to reach the pre boil gravity and volume as seen in BS in the full size recipe, hops and invert amounts will be as seen in that also, I figure as the gravity and all volumes will be the same as in that it should produce the desired IBU without the need to do a separate calculation. I might need to top up a little to reach proper pre boil volume and maybe boost a wee bit with DME.
The plan is to make the Porter wort the night before and set it aside, then make the lighter wort the morning after and after that carry on as a normal brewday.
Would this blend ratio work or should I try to make it more like 2/3 Lighter wort and 1/3 Porter wort? Will it be a catastophic failure? Who knows but it sounds like a fun experiment to me atleast...