English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

Erik the Anglophile

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
1,523
Location
Pålänge, Sweden
And a question about bottling after it has been in secondary.
@DBhomebrew you have bottled a bretted Old Ale after lenghty secondary, it will be nearly completely flat right?
Should I just use the Beersmith priming calculator, set the temp to max(30c) and set the desired carbing vol to something like 2.5 and hope it lands me at 1.8-2 vols somewhere?
And the Brett still in the beer should be enough to eat up the sugar added with no need to add extra right? Brett seems like a rather hardy bugger.
 

DBhomebrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
5,435
Location
St Louis, MO
I followed standard operating procedures, nothing special. Targeted 2.0 as usual. No extra yeast.

You have to remember you're on a different timeline then you're used to. Bottling 9 months into a sacc-only beer, the yeast have been dormant for 8.5 months. With the brett, bottling at 9 months the brett's barely hitting its first REM cycle.

Looking at activity in the first couple days? Settle down, my friend. If sacc's timescale is human, brett's is tectonic.

ETA: I just took a look at my Old Ale Blends thread from last year. Posts in late June (1.014) and mid August (1.012) mention visible effervescence. Finished and bottled at 1.012 early September.
 
Last edited:

Erik the Anglophile

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
1,523
Location
Pålänge, Sweden
Had a small sample of the winter ale I hooked up a few days ago, needs a few more days in the kegerator to come together but already very tasty. Sat in the cellar for about 4months before serving.
6.6% and best described as a hypothetical bastard child of a souped up Black Sheep Riggwelter and Shepherd's 1698.
A little liqourice, light roast and dark fruit.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20230115_151151.jpg
    IMG_20230115_151151.jpg
    3.4 MB · Views: 0

HM-2

Brewing by the seat of my pants
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
193
Reaction score
477
Location
UK
Kegged my old ale today. Sulphur had completely dissipated. Sample I took from the fermenter after transfer was great. Done a few British strongs and similar in the last year and this is definitely shaping up to have the best balance.

It's really orange marmalade forward which is exactly what I wanted. Tastes fairly similar to the 2022 Fuller's Vintage Ale but needs a few weeks more conditioning for the edges to smooth a bit further. Finished pretty dry for the style which aids the somewhat dangerous level of drinkability.
 

DBhomebrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
5,435
Location
St Louis, MO
Racked my co-pitched brett'd stock ale to secondary. Two weeks since brewday. 1.095 down to 1.023, same racking gravity as last year's. That one smelled like Belgian spice, this one like Belgian bubblegum. Likely brett c vs brett b.

Same oak level as Erik, 1g/L. Half of last year's dose. Hungarian medium. @Miraculix, my opinion of oak is that it should be a mouthfeel adjustment. If it comes through as flavor, it's too much. I find it helps bridge the gap between malt sweetness and hop/roast bitterness.

EKG in there too.

20230115_090343.jpg
20230115_090955.jpg
 

Erik the Anglophile

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
1,523
Location
Pålänge, Sweden
Seems similar in color to mine, I think mine attenuated a bit too much in primary, 1.080-1.016.
So next year it will be a few percent less sugar and a 68c/60 min mash instead of 67/75 to leave some more sugar for the brett to work on, most likely the same primary yeast mix.
Mine was EKG/Fuggle, 1g/L each at 20min and Styrian Bobek ~1g/L in the secondary.

During the weekend after january turns to february I will brew my late 1800's inspired Imperial Stout
1.100 target OG, 90 IBU, 75% efficiency
GP/Mild malt 50/50 as base
12% Crisp Brown malt
8% each Simpson Black and Amber
5% t50 crystal (130ebc)
12% invert 3
Late hops and dry hops in secondary similair to the old ale, will be secondaried on oak and brett from a shot glass or two of old ale.
 

HM-2

Brewing by the seat of my pants
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
193
Reaction score
477
Location
UK
It leans into both history and the more modern. Heritage malts, some more historic hops (Target and First Gold) along with newer Charles Faram stuff.
 

An Ankoù

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 25, 2022
Messages
51
Reaction score
60
Location
Brittany, France
Still been very much enjoying my English IPA.
Talking of which, here's an English IPA made very much like an American IPA. The hop mix is:

TROPICAL ENGLAND - 2021 crop • 6% AA. A mix of 5 English grown hops including Jester, Olicana, Godiva, Mystic & Archer that will infuse a tropical aroma into a refreshing English IPA with a difference. 100g late addition/dry hop will do just nicely in a 23 litre brew, but adding another 100g will hit the mark.

There's no need for the extra 100 grams in my opinion. It's quite an amazing beer. I'm pretty sure CML ship to the US and at very reasonable postage rates.

 

DBhomebrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
5,435
Location
St Louis, MO
My 3rd gen top-cropped WLP-037 is now chewing on a brown ale. It's based on a Josh Weikert American Brown Ale I've brewed previously, this time leaning heavily toward an English impression and what was in the cupboard.

1.060 / 31 IBU
72% Best Pale Ale
6% Amber
6% C65
9% Chocolate Rye
7% Flaked Barley
13IBU Fuggle FWH
13IBU Cluster 60m
5IBU Fuggle 30m

I haven't been this pleased with a beer in a long time.

Big mouthful of chocolate, dark fruit, and earth. Roasty and dry with spice and coffee hanging around forever begging for another sip.

A perfect Friday beverage with one of my best mates.

20230120_192055.jpg
 

Brewskey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
163
Reaction score
118
Location
AL.....Down by the bay
I haven't been this pleased with a beer in a long time.

Big mouthful of chocolate, dark fruit, and earth. Roasty and dry with spice and coffee hanging around forever begging for another sip.


A perfect Friday beverage with one of my best mates.
WLP037 is Yorkshire Square right? How do you like that yeast? I've never tried it but have heard mostly negative things about it.
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
898
Reaction score
1,115
Wow, glad you liked the WLP037. That yeast is waaaaaay beyond me. I've whined about it elsewhere. First vault strain I ever got. Did at least half a dozen tries. Never could get something consistent. POF+ and could end up two months later in the bottle being saison-ish, and not in a good way.
 

DBhomebrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
5,435
Location
St Louis, MO
WLP037 is Yorkshire Square right? How do you like that yeast? I've never tried it but have heard mostly negative things about it.
Wow, glad you liked the WLP037. That yeast is waaaaaay beyond me. I've whined about it elsewhere. First vault strain I ever got. Did at least half a dozen tries. Never could get something consistent. POF+ and could end up two months later in the bottle being saison-ish, and not in a good way.

I tried a bottle at 3wks conditioning and was utterly disappointed. Sharp, sweet, blech. Patience won the day. Really, truly pleased with it now, down to the bottom of the glass.

Before the all-grain stouty brown ale, I had brewed two small batches of simple extract bitter. The first batch, a gallon, was not very good at all. The second, 3G, isn't very good either. Not bad, just squarely meh.

All three batches were fermented in a loosely covered bucket with twice daily rousing during active fermentation.

Can't say I'll use the strain again, I don't brew often enough to pitch very fresh each time. I think I'll give 1469 a shot next.
 

Brewskey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
163
Reaction score
118
Location
AL.....Down by the bay
I tried a bottle at 3wks conditioning and was utterly disappointed. Sharp, sweet, blech. Patience won the day. Really, truly pleased with it now, down to the bottom of the glass.

Before the all-grain stouty brown ale, I had brewed two small batches of simple extract bitter. The first batch, a gallon, was not very good at all. The second, 3G, isn't very good either. Not bad, just squarely meh.

All three batches were fermented in a loosely covered bucket with twice daily rousing during active fermentation.

Can't say I'll use the strain again, I don't brew often enough to pitch very fresh each time. I think I'll give 1469 a shot next.
I just did a Stong Bitter with 1469 and it seems to be a great yeast, 79% attenuation with a good dose of invert. Tasted good going into the keg, It's going to condition for a month, will be a long wait.....
 

tracer bullet

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
1,838
Reaction score
1,605
Location
Minnesota
I tried a bottle at 3wks conditioning and was utterly disappointed. Sharp, sweet, blech. Patience won the day. Really, truly pleased with it now, down to the bottom of the glass.
This has been my experience with it as well. For the first few weeks I tell myself to not use it again. By a month or so it gets better, and by the end of the keg I really like it. It's what I used in a recent nut brown ale that I'm drinking these days.

As a fairly impatient person though, I will still remind myself to try other options.
 

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
7,104
Reaction score
5,914
Location
Bremen
That basically applies to all bitters. I'm also bloody impatient. So very often, the last bottles are the best.
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
898
Reaction score
1,115
1469 W Yorkshire and WLP037 are not even the same family of yeast. WLP. Both have Yorkshire in the name, but that is the only commonality.

WLP022 Essex ale seems to be the 1469 equivalent strain. I really like both of these. Haven't done a side by side yeast off yet but will.

W Yorkie and Essex both will give you a nice light estery English session beer. Essex is a vault strain, so the 1469 is typically easier to get.
 

Beermeister32

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 20, 2013
Messages
1,391
Reaction score
2,439
Location
Southern California
This has been my experience with it as well. For the first few weeks I tell myself to not use it again. By a month or so it gets better, and by the end of the keg I really like it. It's what I used in a recent nut brown ale that I'm drinking these days.

As a fairly impatient person though, I will still remind myself to try other options.
Time to buy a couple more kegs to place into rotation. Brew two more batches (my favorite good old reliable Nottingham) so your kegs have one or two months on them before tapping. With me, the cure for impatience was more kegs.
 

eshea3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
120
Reaction score
112
Location
Baltimore, MD
Was in Sheffield recently and was fortunate to find a Simonds 1880 Bitter from The Kernel on cask. Brewed from this recipe Simonds Bitter (1880) – Durden Park Beer Club , it was a remarkable beer. Giving it a go this morning with a 5L batch to go in a mini CD cask. Haven't done a small batch been in quite a while, but thinking I should do more of these.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20230122-100253.png
    Screenshot_20230122-100253.png
    231.8 KB · Views: 0
  • Screenshot_20230122-100346.png
    Screenshot_20230122-100346.png
    243.5 KB · Views: 0

skunkape

Pull my finger…
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
22
Reaction score
24
Location
a cave near 56, AR
Favorite English Ales? You can't go wrong with the clone kits from Austin Homebrew. (yeah they've been Borg'd by whoever owns Northern and AIH) My faves: Morland Old Speckled Hen, Theakston Old Peculiar, Worthington's White Shield, Tim Taylor Landlord Strong, Bishop's Finger. Usually brew the Brit beers with Notty for the flavors and cause it flocs like putty. Sometimes Windsor if I feel like changing it up.
 
Last edited:

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
898
Reaction score
1,115

DBhomebrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
2,926
Reaction score
5,435
Location
St Louis, MO
These are all English yeasties, so I guess from that POV they are the "same." Not sure if this is the latest, but Suregork did the genetic sequencing and there is this wonderful eye chart: Suregork Loves Beer | Beer Reviews, Homebrew, Rambling

peace

I have that chart, thank you.

By saying that I'm done playing with 037 for now and I'm moving on to 1469, I didn't intend to imply that are the same, similar, or whatever.

That said, I'm looking forward to Northern_Brewer's report on his BE-256 experience. I do enjoy the slight phenolic impression that comes from the Belgian-y 037.
 

HM-2

Brewing by the seat of my pants
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
193
Reaction score
477
Location
UK
Desperately trying to kick my English IPA keg so I can get my old ale into circulation. Seems to be never ending. I can feel there's near as makes no difference nothing in there but the pints just keep on coming.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,950
Reaction score
3,678
Location
UK
Suregork did the genetic sequencing
Just to give credit where credit's due, various labs around the world did the actual sequencing and uploaded them to public databases; Suregork didn't do the bench work but did take all those sequences, clean them up and throw them at A Very Big Computer to generate the "family tree".

That said, I'm looking forward to Northern_Brewer's report on his BE-256 experience. I do enjoy the slight phenolic impression that comes from the Belgian-y 037.
It's not really the right test - it's not side by side in equivalent beers (for...reasons), it's just in the big beer of my recent partigyle where it's rather swamped by a ton of DRC and other goodies. It certainly deserves its reputation for a quick and vigorous fermentation - I pitched it before going away for the weekend and it was essentially at FG by the time I got back, with some of the wort no longer in the fermenter...

I then had time to bottle it before going away for a longer trip, so I've only tried it slightly-carbed. Given that it was really just a user-upper (3yo malt, 5yo hops) for my first try at partigyling, initial impressions are that the big beer has worked pretty well, the smaller beer is meh and needs some work. Even though I thought I was fairly generous with first runnings - roughly 2:1 and 1:2 first:second for the two beers - you can really tell that the second beer isn't as full as it should be, it's ~4.5% but drinks more like <4%. I guess I was hoping for something closer to Harvey's Old Ale and instead it went more in the direction of Greene King IPA, which is hardly the beer I dream of. (as an aside, does anyone know if GK partigyle? It would fit.)

So I've learnt my lesson, not to rely on the smaller beer providing "maltiness" and body. Either I need more specialities in my original grist - more DRC, darker crystal, even dextrin malt - or I add more first runnings to the small beer and use more sugar in the big beer, or I cold steep specialities just for the small beer, or I just accept it and distract from the lack of body with a load of hops and take it in the direction of somewhere between an American Amber and a session IPA made with extra pale. I'd deliberately not gone crazy with the bittering or aroma hops first time round as I was more interested in the maltiness and I was just seeing what I ended up with.

The big lesson for me is to not aim for too much volume on your first partigyle - effectively you have one beer's-worth of water to mash two beers-worth of grain, and one of those is a big beer. I was aiming a bit smaller than usual but even then I didn't really have room to stir properly. And it's a while since I've made caramel and I'd forgotten just how much room you need in your saucepan when making it!!!

As far as BE-256 goes, I won't be able to give it a fair taste til I'm under the same roof in a couple of weeks - and hopefully be able to give it to people whose senses haven't been ravaged by Covid. But initial impressions are that it certainly ferments hard and fast, attenuated to ~83% IIRC, and there wasn't obvious phenolics in the immature beer. Although I have tried WLP540 in a SMaSH and it was OK, I haven't quite decided how I feel about it. Although my feelings about WLP540 may be hampered by the fact that I have it side by side with Rochefort dregs which are rapidly becoming one of my favourite sources of yeast! [for those in NW England, Booth's had Rochefort 6 before Christmas although I don't know if that was a one-off]. But it feels like BE-256 could have its uses for British beers, perhaps as the high-attenuation part of a blend.
 

Colindo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Messages
80
Reaction score
85
Location
Düsseldorf, Germany
So I've learnt my lesson, not to rely on the smaller beer providing "maltiness" and body. Either I need more specialities in my original grist - more DRC, darker crystal, even dextrin malt - or I add more first runnings to the small beer and use more sugar in the big beer, or I cold steep specialities just for the small beer, or I just accept it and distract from the lack of body with a load of hops and take it in the direction of somewhere between an American Amber and a session IPA made with extra pale.
I tried the dregs of my parti-gyled Chiswick Bitter yesterday and it was pretty similar. Except that the CB is dry-hopped, which turns it into a kind of session IPA, with hops being the most prominent flavour. Also I felt that the temperature must not be lower than 13°C, because my sample was rather cold (to preserve CO2) and tasted very watery. I guess this would be lessened if served as a cask ale.
 

ba-brewer

I'm not Zog, I'm Leroi
HBT Supporter
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
19,420
Reaction score
12,083
Location
sf Bay Area
Just to give credit where credit's due, various labs around the world did the actual sequencing and uploaded them to public databases; Suregork didn't do the bench work but did take all those sequences, clean them up and throw them at A Very Big Computer to generate the "family tree".
Do you know if there is an more up to date version of the "family tree"?
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,950
Reaction score
3,678
Location
UK
I tried the dregs of my parti-gyled Chiswick Bitter yesterday and it was pretty similar. Except that the CB is dry-hopped, which turns it into a kind of session IPA, with hops being the most prominent flavour.
Well the "real" Chiswick was dry-hopped.

Do you know if there is an more up to date version of the "family tree"?
Not that I'm aware of, although Suregork has had a lot on his plate lately and the big sequencing projects have rather dried up after that big burst in the late 'teens.
 

Shenanigans

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
1,193
Reaction score
321
Location
Germany but from Ireland
I have done several parti-gyles in the past. Not in the traditional stlye of mixing the two runnings. Normally it's from a big beer like an RIS, Baltic Porter, IIPA or Barleywine.
With 12 to 14 Kg of grains in the mash tonne there is enough sugar left behind for a free beer after getting the wort for the big one.

I keep all the first runnings for the first beer for 5 gallons of wort. Then add enough water for 3 gallons second runnings (batch sparge). I always cap the mash with something additional for the second runnings. Usually 300g of crystalwheat helps a lot to give it more body and flavour.
I might add some flaked oats or some kind of roast malt too depending on what style I'm aiming for and which yeast and hops I want to use up but I always add the crystal wheat. I don't sweat it too much, whatever come out comes out in the end, most important is to hit the numbers for the first beer.

Of course if you are trying to copy a known beer and have exact expectations for the second beer then you need to be a bit more calculated :)
 
Last edited:

Colindo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Messages
80
Reaction score
85
Location
Düsseldorf, Germany
I tasted the Chiswick Bitter as a full pint from the low carbonated bottle today, together with an English Roast, and it was an incredibly drinkable beer. Strong hoppy notes, but also great mouthfeel. Had a bit of a cask feel to it due to the low carbonation and the warmer temperature. Definitely ok for a bitter, no increase in maltiness required. My Chiswick Bitter was made from 1 quarter first runnings and 3 quarters second runnings.
 

WesBrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
833
Reaction score
1,044
Location
The Free South
At the bottom of my first keg of Bitter. Its pretty good but dry and maybe a bit thin. I'd like some more maltiness in the beer. i made an error on the mashout so that fix should help. i was thinking of just using CaraMunich II with the MO, which should add some malty flavor without much caramel. Is that out of place in the bitter? Thoughts?
 

kmarkstevens

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
898
Reaction score
1,115
At the bottom of my first keg of Bitter. Its pretty good but dry and maybe a bit thin. I'd like some more maltiness in the beer. i made an error on the mashout so that fix should help. i was thinking of just using CaraMunich II with the MO, which should add some malty flavor without much caramel. Is that out of place in the bitter? Thoughts?
What is your mash temp? You want more mouth feel, mash high around 158F
 

Colindo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Messages
80
Reaction score
85
Location
Düsseldorf, Germany
I tasted the three beers from my Fuller's parti-gyle yesterday. Amazing how different the three beers turned out. They were all a bit too strong, since I could not dilute it enough back when I brewed it, because my pots were too small. But apart from that they are all three really good.

Will put one on my newly acquired hand pump soon to see what difference that makes.
 

WesBrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
833
Reaction score
1,044
Location
The Free South
I used RO water. CL was 93, i mashed at 150, with a target FG of .011. i forgot to raise mash temp for mashout, making it too fermentable. That will probably handle the dry issue. i had some medium crystal 3%, and some brown & black malt for coloring that amounted to 1.2%. i thought replacing those with just CaraM would give me the 10srm color and add some malty to the beer.
 
Top