Electric Single Kettle BIAB setup. Suggestions?

[Lynchy217]

I'm trying to build the cheapest possible single Kettle BIAB setup for 5 gallon batches. Any input from someone who actually knows what they're doing would be much appreciated!

Parts List:
Heater Element: http://www.amazon.com/Camco-02963-Screw-In-Ripple-Element/dp/B000BPG4LI

Kettle: http://www.amazon.com/Winware-Stainless-Steel-Quart-Stock/dp/B001AS81BQ/ref=sr_1_cc_4?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1420058588&sr=1-4-catcorr&keywords=%5Cbrew+kettle+32+quart

PID: http://www.amazon.com/REX-C700-Thermocouple-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller/dp/B00MMZQOTC/ref=sr_1_2?

SSR: http://www.amazon.com/40A-SSR-Solid-State-Relay/dp/B005KPIX9A/ref=sr_1_1?

Power Cord: http://www.amazon.com/PETRA-90-1024-3-Wire-Dryer-6-Foot/dp/B00009W3PA/ref=sr_1_1?




Is there anything that I could do cheaper while still being functional? I'm looking to do this as cheaply as possible. if there's anything more that would make it work better that's worth the money? (Other than hardware and tools to punch holes) Any suggestions on good substitutions? I have a few decent K-type Thermocouples that will work with the controller already.

Thanks for your help!

 

[jwalkermed]

I'm not an expert but some obvious flaws is that power cord is 3 wire. I believe you need a 4 wire cord with GFCI protection or an inline GFCI cord. Also you need a relay or contactor between the power source and SSR . SSRs can fail closed with no way to power off the element.

If you are looking for a cheap controller i hear still dragon has one for a little over 40 bucks that ppl use. It doesn't offer PID control though.

I'm sure some of the experts around here will have more to say/details etc..

 

[doug293cz]

The PID you link will not drive an SSR. Specs say PID has relay output, so would need a separate DC supply (~10 V) connected thru the relay output to drive the SSR.

You can do 5 gal BIAB in a 32 qt pot, but it is very constraining. Recommend you start bigger (at least 10 gal) if you can. I did BIAB in an 8 gal pot for a while, and it was a PITA.

And, do not ignore the advice about a GFCI, your a$$ is worth more (at least it should be to you) than any $$ you save by cheaping out.

Brew on

 

[RichBenn]

BIAB should have at least a 44 quart kettle. 5 gallon batches are really 5.5 gallon batches; 90 minute boils could start with 8+ gallons on big hoppy, higher alcohol beers, plus you need headroom plus BIAB uses even more because of grain.

There is a 44 quart bayou pot with a steamer insert that's pretty inexpensive - your bag can hang in there a few inches off the bottom.

We've all started with too small of a pot and had to go bigger - learn from our mistakes so you buy once, not twice.

 

[watermelon83]

You should look into an all SS element. Bobby sells them, I have one. No rust on it after 3 wet tests and one brew day.

 

[MaltedBayerl]

Is there anything that I could do cheaper while still being functional?

You can get a 10 gallon aluminum kettle for half the price of that stainless one.

You don't need a controller. On/off is a lot cheaper.

120v plugs, cords, etc. seem to be about 1/3 the cost of 240v equipment. 240v might also limit where you can brew. You'll need a dedicated 240v outlet.

I use a 120v 1500w heatstick plus my stove. Pretty cheap.

 

[Lynchy217]

The PID you link will not drive an SSR. Specs say PID has relay output, so would need a separate DC supply (~10 V) connected thru the relay output to drive the SSR.

You can do 5 gal BIAB in a 32 qt pot, but it is very constraining. Recommend you start bigger (at least 10 gal) if you can. I did BIAB in an 8 gal pot for a while, and it was a PITA.

Oops! I meant to link this one: http://www.amazon.com/Sestos-Temperature-Controller-D1S-VR-220-40A/dp/B00ADHNSGI/ref=pd_bxgy_misc_img_z

I copied the wrong tab. Sorry about that.

I will look for a bigger pot, too. I'll probably just get an aluminum pot to save money. Thanks for your help!

I'm not an expert but some obvious flaws is that power cord is 3 wire. I believe you need a 4 wire cord with GFCI protection or an inline GFCI cord.

Interesting. Do you have a good suggestion for GFCI protection? It seems most of them on Amazon are $100 at minimum ($400 for the only 240V 30A one they have). Is there a cheaper option out there somewhere? Also, any tips on where I could look up how to wire the 4 wire plug?

We've all started with too small of a pot and had to go bigger - learn from our mistakes so you buy once, not twice.

Will do! Thanks!

You should look into an all SS element. Bobby sells them, I have one. No rust on it after 3 wet tests and one brew day.

Do you have a link by chance? Is it still ULWD?

You can get a 10 gallon aluminum kettle for half the price of that stainless one.

I use a 120v 1500w heatstick plus my stove. Pretty cheap.

I think I am going to use an aluminum pot, since the extra cost doesn't really seem worth it. I did consider using an easier heatstick with the stove assisting, but I want to go all electric as part of a different project. Thanks for your help!

 

[dyqik]

BIAB should have at least a 44 quart kettle. 5 gallon batches are really 5.5 gallon batches; 90 minute boils could start with 8+ gallons on big hoppy, higher alcohol beers, plus you need headroom plus BIAB uses even more because of grain.

There is a 44 quart bayou pot with a steamer insert that's pretty inexpensive - your bag can hang in there a few inches off the bottom.

We've all started with too small of a pot and had to go bigger - learn from our mistakes so you buy once, not twice.

The 44 quart Bayou Classic pot (without the steamer basket) is currently cheaper on Amazon than the 32 quart pot linked. $80.99 with Prime shipping when I checked just now.

 

[mdwilson]

I'm using a spa panel as my GCFI. It is about $80 from Lowes. I have it set up as an extension cord from my dryer outlet to my garage. Mine is a 3-wire system. It is a dedicated circuit from the breaker panel to the dryer outlet and I am not running any current through the neutral (no 120 volt items in the circuit).

 

[Zepth]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/recirculating-electric-biab-setup.html

Not the cheapest method but something to keep in mind if you'd like to upgrade at some point.

For me I managed to save a bit of money by going with a dedicated 240v panel and 3 wire connection. This means that some of the schematics from PJ and Kal will need the "overseas" method to be used, but it isn't any more hassle. And it saved me about 30% of wire cost.

 

[ccbadd]

If you are going to use a PID and not recirculate than be prepared to do a lot of stirring. I do wonder though if some sort of agitator would actually work better that a recirculation pump.

 

[soccerdad]

+1 on the bayou classic with basket - the basket is a great BIAB tool. If you are not recirculating for mash or pumping for cooling I would delay the PID and internal element .. go adjustable hot plate or induction and heat from underneath .. just monitor the temp manually. 2 cents.

 

[watermelon83]

Yup, here ya go:


https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm

 

[Lynchy217]

+1 on the bayou classic with basket - the basket is a great BIAB tool. If you are not recirculating for mash or pumping for cooling I would delay the PID and internal element .. go adjustable hot plate or induction and heat from underneath .. just monitor the temp manually. 2 cents.

I was actually also looking at getting a pump for my wort chiller, so I could use the same pump to recirculate during mash. Is a pump needed at all during boil?

 

[soccerdad]

Most of the set ups that I have seen do not pump during the boil .. but some folks might.

 

[huntb]

I'm guessing because you saw that the new PID contoller you linked came with an SSR that it would work. If you read the description it is also a relay output and won't work directly with an SSR

 

[doug293cz]

I'm guessing because you saw that the new PID contoller you linked came with an SSR that it would work. If you read the description it is also a relay output and won't work directly with an SSR

No, the second one he linked (Sestos D1S-VR-220) does have an SSR drive output, as well as 1 alarm relay.

Brew on

 

[Lynchy217]

I'm guessing because you saw that the new PID contoller you linked came with an SSR that it would work. If you read the description it is also a relay output and won't work directly with an SSR

Yea... Amazon is awful for trying to order anything that requires specs.. If you check that model (which is the VR, not the 2R) out on their website, it has both a relay output and a 12V out, which should work with the Relay they include. I avoid looking at Amazon for any technical information. The first controller I linked was one I saw someone else was using and I didn't pay attention when I copied the link, not an actual consideration.

 

[rudylyon57]

I'm designing/building an electric system as well. I just put a 50A GFCI breaker in my panel on a dedicated circuit. They are around in the $60-$90 range.

 

[Lynchy217]

I'm designing/building an electric system as well. I just put a 50A GFCI breaker in my panel on a dedicated circuit. They are around in the $60-$90 range.

Ahh interesting. Unfortunately, I'm in an apartment that I rent and would rather make something that I can use with the already available dedicated breaker for the dryer hookup. Thanks for the idea, though!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Your dryer outlet will work fine.Thats how I run mine.Get a spa panel with gfci ,plug that into the dryer outlet and your pid control box into the spa panel and youll be safe and up and running.I just built the simplest of setups that way and its works great.

Your going to need a lot more to get up and running than you listed in the first post.If your going to spend the money why not get a 20 gal pot for about $50 more so you can brew 10 gal batches.If your going 5500w 220v the entire build will be the same as using a smaller pot. Twice the beer and same time on brew day..

My simple setup from scratch cost right around $500. So you know what your getting into.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

Are you opposed to using two 120v heat sticks? @wilserbrewer uses two of them with no controller. Seems to suit him just fine.

 

[rlager]

You might want to consider looking at Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops and Lowes for brew kettles because those big stores have off season sales going on now too.

 

[Lynchy217]

Are you opposed to using two 120v heat sticks? @wilserbrewer uses two of them with no controller. Seems to suit him just fine.

I'm only opposed because my apartment doesn't have a dedicated 120v circuit that can handle more than 2500w (technically 3k, but I don't really want to try to max it out.)

 

[Lynchy217]

Your dryer outlet will work fine.Thats how I run mine.Get a spa panel with gfci ,plug that into the dryer outlet and your pid control box into the spa panel and youll be safe and up and running.I just built the simplest of setups that way and its works great.

Your going to need a lot more to get up and running than you listed in the first post.If your going to spend the money why not get a 20 gal pot for about $50 more so you can brew 10 gal batches.If your going 5500w 220v the entire build will be the same as using a smaller pot. Twice the beer and same time on brew day..

My simple setup from scratch cost right around $500. So you know what your getting into.

Honestly, I don't really have enough kegs to do 10 gallon batches of every beer I make. I like variety, so until I get more keg space, I don't really want to do more than 5 gallon batches.

In addition to what I have listed (and a GFCI spa panel + wiring and fittings) what else do I need? Do you have a parts list for your build?

Right now, with what I have, I'm looking at ~$270, including fittings, wiring, and the spa panel. I was originally planning on $400 or so.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Aubrins pid
aubrins temp probe/wire with xlr connections
5500w element/nut washer
Element housing,I used the one from brewhardware? Not the gangbox(looks nicer same price no building)
30 amp plugs,recepticle not cheap,found some on ebay
40 amp ssr
LARGE heatsink,bigger the better/thermal paste
30 amp switch to turn off element
Emergency stop button
Spa panel/dryer cord coming out of panel/cord going to CP
Step bits for drilling
Concord 20 gallon SS pot ebay
All in all it starts to add up.
I only have one keg also,I make a 10 gallon batch and rack into 2 buckets.This way if Im impatient and keg to early I need to drink it first before racking the next bucket. So the second five gallons is nice and aged and tastes great.Again for the extra $50 you covered in the future.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

I'm only opposed because my apartment doesn't have a dedicated 120v circuit that can handle more than 2500w (technically 3k, but I don't really want to try to max it out.)

Most kitchens have two separate 20 amp circuits. That was my thought, not both off of the same circuit.

 

[RichBenn]

Most kitchens have two separate 20 amp circuits. That was my thought, not both off of the same circuit.

It's what I do.

To the original poster - do you have a big exhaust fan where your dryer is? If not, consider where you are going to brew. 240V extension cords are expensive, and condensation is a big problem, as well as removing heat from the boil.

If that's the scenario, then consider the kitchen, where you may already have a significant exhaust fan. Two 1650 watt elements in the kettle going to different circuits work great for 5.5 gallon batches, and leaves enough overhead in the circuits for pumps, etc. and whatever to not trip the breakers.

(One of these days, I need to document my build.....)

 

[Lynchy217]

Aubrins pid
aubrins temp probe/wire with xlr connections
5500w element/nut washer
Element housing,I used the one from brewhardware? Not the gangbox(looks nicer same price no building)
30 amp plugs,recepticle not cheap,found some on ebay
40 amp ssr
LARGE heatsink,bigger the better/thermal paste
30 amp switch to turn off element
Emergency stop button
Spa panel/dryer cord coming out of panel/cord going to CP
Step bits for drilling+
Concord 20 gallon SS pot ebay
All in all it starts to add up.

Interesting. My plan was to have the 3 wire dryer cord connect to the spa panel then use 30amp wires from the spa panel with disconnects, which is something I do to connect speakers to the output of prototype guitar amps all the time. (rather than setting up another outlet, although if I can find a cheap solution to do it, an outlet would definitely look a lot prettier. That may be a future upgrade, though.) to power everything. My PID runs on 240 so I wouldn't need a neutral. I build tube amps pretty regularly, and I have some 10/3 laying around from a previous build. The element enclosure seems like a pretty great addition and I was planning on using a breaker test switch as an estop. Does that make sense? Is there a specific reason I should use the outlet and power cord instead of disconnects that I'm missing?

In terms of drilling tools (stop bits and a KO punch), I have a friend that works with metal a lot, so I'm hoping he will have something that suits my needs. If not, I will either have to find a way to rent one or pony up the extra money and just buy one.

Thanks for you input! I'm not planning on buying anything until the end of the month, so I do have time to iron out the details. If you have any further suggestions, definitely let me know. I appreciate all the help I can get. =]

 

[Lynchy217]

Most kitchens have two separate 20 amp circuits. That was my thought, not both off of the same circuit.

Ahh, I completely misunderstood. That definitely sounds like a pretty good option to explore. I might actually price that out and see what it looks like. That may give me a bit more freedom, as anywhere that I can reach an extension cord to a different circuit, I can brew. That would require a dual GFCI breaker, though, correct? I'll figure out a parts list for both and maybe post a comparison?

 

[Lynchy217]

It's what I do.

To the original poster - do you have a big exhaust fan where your dryer is? If not, consider where you are going to brew. 240V extension cords are expensive, and condensation is a big problem, as well as removing heat from the boil.

If that's the scenario, then consider the kitchen, where you may already have a significant exhaust fan. Two 1650 watt elements in the kettle going to different circuits work great for 5.5 gallon batches, and leaves enough overhead in the circuits for pumps, etc. and whatever to not trip the breakers.

(One of these days, I need to document my build.....)

I do have a big exhaust fan that can be put in that area, and there is a window directly near the washer. Keeping it cool and dry should not be a problem, although I may need to figure something out for the summer. I just checked, and in my kitchen I have one 20A breaker and one 25A breaker, so that could definitely work with the PID and one element working off of one circuit and the other element along with any pumps or whatever I need working off the 25 A one.. That is definitely something I'll explore. I think I'm going to post a comparison between the two builds and see what people think. thanks for the input!

I mentioned previously that I am not buying anything until the end of the month, so i have some time to work out kinks.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

Ahh, I completely misunderstood. That definitely sounds like a pretty good option to explore. I might actually price that out and see what it looks like. That may give me a bit more freedom, as anywhere that I can reach an extension cord to a different circuit, I can brew. That would require a dual GFCI breaker, though, correct? I'll figure out a parts list for both and maybe post a comparison?

You may already have 2 GFCI protected circuits in your kitchen. If you insulated your pot while mashing, you wouldn't need a controller unless you really wanted temperature control. That would be your lowest cost option.

 

[Lynchy217]

You may already have 2 GFCI protected circuits in your kitchen. If you insulated your pot while mashing, you wouldn't need a controller unless you really wanted temperature control. That would be your lowest cost option.

Ahh, I'll have to look into that. I could also get the bare minimum and spring for the controller and extra SSR's later as an upgrade. I do also have two Raspberry Pi's.. maybe I can configure one of those as a controller...

 

[beeton]

I know quite a few people who brew 5 gal batches with this.
http://www.brucefoods.com/cajun-injector-electric-turkey-fryer.html

 

[Lynchy217]

I know quite a few people who brew 5 gal batches with this.
http://www.brucefoods.com/cajun-injector-electric-turkey-fryer.html

Oh wow.. that's way cheaper. Do you know if it is big enough for a BIAB? I don't really see anything that says how big it is..

 

[Fatman_Brew]

Oh wow.. that's way cheaper. Do you know if it is big enough for a BIAB? I don't really see anything that says how big it is..

Apparently large enough to boil 6.5 gallons of wort according to one amazon.com review.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002JQ3KQ4...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_9l1tloml3c_b

 

[lazarwolf]

So just a question for you to consider, no judgement here at all, and nothing but support for your brewing enthusiasm... but why? Are you trying to do this? I spent months looking into this, I even bought a book about it. Here's what I learned. For far less money I could buy two electric turkey fryers, make minor modifications (insulation), change the spigot etc. Are you doing this because it sounds fun to you? If so, Talley ho. If you're looking to do all grain indoors there are far cheaper ways to do it.

 

[Lynchy217]

So just a question for you to consider, no judgement here at all, and nothing but support for your brewing enthusiasm... but why? Are you trying to do this? I spent months looking into this, I even bought a book about it. Here's what I learned. For far less money I could buy two electric turkey fryers, make minor modifications (insulation), change the spigot etc. Are you doing this because it sounds fun to you? If so, Talley ho. If you're looking to do all grain indoors there are far cheaper ways to do it.

Admittedly, it is largely because I love designing things, but if there's a cheaper way, I would definitely be interested in at least considering it. What turkey fryer did you get? And what size batches do you do?

 

[lazarwolf]

hey man, I understand, because I am the first to talk about brewing with frugality, and also the first to run out and spend money on the new "frugal" brewing tool. How frugal is that? In the old days we did all grain with nothing but some canning pots and 5 gallon plastic buckets. wed lauter by pouring our mash into a 5 gallon bucket that had holes drilled into the bottom of it and was stuck inside another 5 gallon bucket, and you know what... it worked. The fryer is called the "cajun injector electric turkey fryer"

The good news? it will work. The bad news, you need to turn it over and insulate between the outside and the kettle. or your heating times take forever, and so does your boil. If you insulate it, it is a pretty good biab system.

I prefer partial mash ( see Deathbrewer's post if you havent) and the one kettle approach works real well for that.