sictransit701
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I plan on doing 7 gallon boils. Will a 120v element be sufficient?
As said before, yes you can.I plan on doing 7 gallon boils. Will a 120v element be sufficient?
Not quite, most circuit breakers are only rated for 80% of their nameplate rating.How many watts?
1500-1650W (on a 15A circuit) or
2000-2250W (on a 20A circuit)?
I have my doubts about this statement. I was in the electrical supply distribution business for 43 years and have never heard this. I don’t see how they could rate a breaker for less than its indicated amperage. It would mess with any and all calculations used in the NEC.Not quite, most circuit breakers are only rated for 80% of their nameplate rating.
A 15A circuit is good for a heater up to 1,440W, a 20A is good up to 1920W.
This is an incorrect statement that is constantly perpetuated. There is a very specific article in the NEC regarding circuits that serve hard-wire, constant use appliances but it has nothing to do with breakers or circuits on branch circuits with portable plugs.Not quite, most circuit breakers are only rated for 80% of their nameplate rating.
A 15A circuit is good for a heater up to 1,440W, a 20A is good up to 1920W.
Perhaps not the breakers, but it is common to see the 80-85% derate capacity applied to the wiring itself. 14ga for lighting on a 15A circuit, 12ga for 20A circuits (wall outlets).I have my doubts about this statement. I was in the electrical supply distribution business for 43 years and have never heard this. I don’t see how they could rate a breaker for less than its indicated amperage. It would mess with any and all calculations used in the NEC.
The quoted power for 15 and 20A above has a derate baked in.How many watts?
1500-1650W (on a 15A circuit) or
2000-2250W (on a 20A circuit)?
Says who? The breaker manufacturer? Not if the breaker is UL100% of a breakers rated capacity should not be maintained for extended periods of time.
422.10 | Branch-Circuit Rating |
At 120 volts, plan a very long brew day with an unsatisfactory under performing boil. A 15 amp circuits at 120 volts has a max of 1800 watts, whereas one 15 amp circuit at 240 volts has a max of 3600 watts. It is actually cheaper with the 240 volt due to the shorter brew time and hence less heat loss, ok that's minor, but the time does add up.I plan on doing 7 gallon boils. Will a 120v element be sufficient?
Please read the above comments. Your two circuits might power one 3300 watt element at a time in each kettle. This would greatly expedite your brew day. If the force is with you...I mean phases!I run, and have for years, two 1650w elements on separate circuits for both my hlt and bk. I have never popped any breakers while brewing. Both circuits are 15a. Am I risking a fire?
Plus my brew days arent ridiculously longer than 240, since most of my heatup time is initial heating. Heating from mash to mashout/sparge only takes about 25 minutes, and then from mashout to boil takes roughly another hour, so what am i adding on my actual brew day compared to 240v? 30 minutes tops?1650 watt element in a 10 gallon kettle doing 7 gallon boils on my heavily dryhopped beers. I have no problem boiling. You have to keep the lid on but cracked, but its no problem regarding DMS or anything. The last few degrees from like 208 to 212 take forever, but it gets there
I apologize if this seems like bragging, but would like to show you my brew day using a 5500 watt BK element in conjunction with a 1650 watt RIMS element for all the heating. It's taken me years to concoct this setup, changing one or more things every brewday. I think once you're sure homebrewing in your thing, moving to electric is worth the money.For the initial heat up i just plan my brew day around when i want to mash in, not when i turn my system on. So if i'm starting my brew day at 10am, i just make sure water is in my kettle the night before, and i flip the system on at 7 or 730 and then go about my morning making breakfast and running errands. Isnt that the positive of electric vs propane? Its not about time, its about ease. I dont have to babysit a flame
Erasing initial heat up is only fair if you always have errands while you wait but let's grant that.Plus my brew days arent ridiculously longer than 240, since most of my heatup time is initial heating. Heating from mash to mashout/sparge only takes about 25 minutes, and then from mashout to boil takes roughly another hour, so what am i adding on my actual brew day compared to 240v? 30 minutes tops?
Well, this is definitely a plus for the BIAB technique! I see how the mash is heated that quickly with 5500 watt element plus the quick lautering process of removing the grain from the wort. I mash out the wort via the RIMS at about 1 gallon/minute which comes out to 18+ minutes and then there are the slow drippings for another 30+ minutes (I don't lift and squeeze bag). I'd give BIAB at least a 25 minute advantage between mash end and the boil start. But you know me, I like a clearer wort in my BK.My ramp on 5500 watts to mashout is about 6-7 minutes. Ramp to a boil is 15 minutes. So, your brew day is at least an hour longer not including strike heating.
Ok 30 minutes might be a stretch. But still, i feel like unless i'm in a professional situation, if an hour is going to make or break my day, why am i taking in a hobby that takes over 4 hours minimum? My longer ramp times are somewhat beneficial, as yes my brew day is longer, but i have longer breaks in between brewing steps allowing me to step away. Heres my typical brew dayErasing initial heat up is only fair if you always have errands while you wait but let's grant that.
My ramp on 5500 watts to mashout is about 6-7 minutes. Ramp to a boil is 15 minutes. So, your brew day is at least an hour longer not including strike heating.
That doesn't mean you can't get it done. I'm just saying it's more than 30 minutes for people still weighing options.
My RIMS has a 120 volt 1650 watt element that is at the heart of my system and would make no sense to change it, you know with scorching and all. I think the OP was just rattling the cage. We are all the captain of our own ship and master of our brew. The point here was that the 240 volt vessels sail faster. heheI think theres just a lot of "120v is worthless"
I've been brewing 240v the last couple years and have another 240v system otw (spike solo) but I actually am kinda surprised there aren't more builds with 2 120v elements. (One pid controlled and one on/off). The dual 120v seems like it'd satisfy those who don't wanna mess with 240v and wanna spend a lil less.
If i'm understanding correctly, you could basically have a small box inline of your power supply for your brewing controller, with Input/Output for the 240v high power to the brewing panel, inside the 240 lines are running through a contactor, and then the contactor coil runs to a120v plug out to a smart plug in your wall? ie: power is disconnected to the brewing panel when the contactor is open, and then once the contactor's coil sees the 120v from the now turned on smart plug, it completes the path and the controller turns on? Pretty smart!A cool trick I have been using is a smart wifi plug to preheat my water before I wake up to brew. I run the wire that would close the contactor on the heating coil through a normally open contact on a relay and back to the contactor. When the outlet turns on, it energizes the relay and closes the normally open contacts, turning on the heating element.
I fill my kettles the night before, plug in the smart plug into a garage outlet and plug a power strip into the outlet. I then plug my recirculation pumps and the jumper wire to the relay coils into the power strip and set the timer on the smart plug. Ready to mash in when I wake up.
I don't switch the power to the brewing panel at all. It stays on all night. The hot wire that would pull in the contactor for the boil kettle element is run through the relay and back once the smart plug turns on. I attached a rough sketch.If i'm understanding correctly, you could basically have a small box inline of your power supply for your brewing controller, with Input/Output for the 240v high power to the brewing panel, inside the 240 lines are running through a contactor, and then the contactor coil runs to a120v plug out to a smart plug in your wall? ie: power is disconnected to the brewing panel when the contactor is open, and then once the contactor's coil sees the 120v from the now turned on smart plug, it completes the path and the controller turns on? Pretty smart!
I meant just two separate elements on two different circuits/outlets altogether. Only one of them being PID controlled (as you'd only need one on a PID)If i'm understanding correctly, you could basically have a small box inline of your power supply for your brewing controller, with Input/Output for the 240v high power to the brewing panel, inside the 240 lines are running through a contactor, and then the contactor coil runs to a120v plug out to a smart plug in your wall? ie: power is disconnected to the brewing panel when the contactor is open, and then once the contactor's coil sees the 120v from the now turned on smart plug, it completes the path and the controller turns on? Pretty smart!
I build about one dual 120v element kettles/BIAB rig a week so it's not uncommon at all.I've been brewing 240v the last couple years and have another 240v system otw (spike solo) but I actually am kinda surprised there aren't more builds with 2 120v elements. (One pid controlled and one on/off). The dual 120v seems like it'd satisfy those who don't wanna mess with 240v and wanna spend a lil less.
A lot of controllers have a delay start timer built in to them. The Blichmann Brewcommander can delay start up for up to 24 hours. Any controller with the Auber EZboil DSPR-3xx brains can do it also.Also another hack i have to reduce time on my total brew day, is filling the kettles the night before, turning the system on and bringing the HLT and Strike water in the MT up to around 185 degrees. Then i turn it off before i head to bed. When i wake up the next morning, i've lost heat, but im well over 100 degrees and my heating time before starting my brew day is cut in at least half. Takes me 10 minutes to fill the kettles, throw in potassium metabisulfite, and walk away until its bed time. I'll do my water treatments the next day right before mashing in.