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JVD_X

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I just bought their mlt after going through several revisions of coolers that I didn't like. My last cooler deformed in the heat and the tap popped out tearing the side with it. I plan on brewing with it next weekend so I can post a review of it then.

I already have the 15 gallon conical from hobby beverage and it rocks. Like the conical the mlt is made of hdpe so it should be very thick and maintain heat well.

While it is true that the mlt does not come with an electric element or control, it does come equiped with a predrilled hole for one.
 

kappclark

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Sorry - could not follow...

who is better ? High gravity brew or the brewmation ?
 

Chriso

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@Bill, The "Hobby Beverage" Hot Liquor Tun is the one that High Gravity sells. It is not High Gravity's own system, rather a system sold by the Hobby Beverage company of California ( http://www.minibrew.com/ ).

I have one of their 6.5gal MiniBrew Conical Fermenters and like it. I like their Hot Liquor Tun, but would never use one of those mash tuns because - conversely to JVD's experience - I don't ever wanna give my cooler MLT up. :)

My personal setup will be the Brewmation 18 gal that EdWort and I both ordered, a Cooler MLT (currently Igloo 48qt but might go bigger), and a 15gal Aluminum kettle.

In my pilot stages, I might close the door to my brew room, open one window, and put a fan exhausting in the other window. Eventually, I hope to have my boil running on electric too. I have not yet decided how I will be doing this.
 

kappclark

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Thanks -

So, you will make the wort electrically, so to speak, then use gas for the boil ..

I guess what appeals to me about electric is I can brew all year round indoors. If I did this, I would want to go to the boil in the same area as the MLT .. all in one spot ...firing up propane in the basement is not for me.

I suppose there are plenty of electric boilers out there, or plans for heat sticks + brew pots..

No end to what one van spend, I suppose.
 

Chriso

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I will use gas for the boil in my initial stages, yes, while I am finishing other projects. That is partially because I have not yet figured out what I need to electrically boil 10 gallons of wort -- but without cutting holes into my new kettle.

Part of my design for this brew setup is that - by leaving the Electric HLT at home, and taking only my cooler MLT and my brew kettle - that I can brew on propane outdoors at friends' houses, without having to "tear down" very much, or keep a 2nd set of gear.

Make sense?

By next spring, I hope to be away from using propane in the basement. It's just an interim setup while I'm finishing other projects (motorized grain mill, walk-in cooler, etc).
 

kappclark

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Yes - makes sense...

So you start the process with first infusion...then you take the MLT outside to drain into the pot ?

You will still need some add'l hot water for the batch sparging - right ?
 

kappclark

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High Gravity system vs Brewmation:

This a copy of the comment I received from Brewmation regarding what makes it different from High Gravity:

-----------------------------------------------------

Hi Bill,

The biggest difference is that the High Gravity equipment is what they
call "experimental".

From the site:

"This equipment is sold as an experimental kit, to assembled by the
user. High Gravity assumes no responsibility for any damages caused by
operation of this system".

Items such as safety float switches etc. are not offered, yet absolutely
necessary. The heating elements need to be submerged. If they are not
and then energized, they blow (literally).

For their "electric kettle" they simply offer the heating element. What
is absolutely necessary is the means to adjust the amount of power being
applied. Our system can do 15 gallon batches and the 6K watts of power
needs to be turned down considerably once boiling commences because the
boil is so intense. Also, you need to adjust the power to prevent
boil-overs.

Another difference is the sparging method. We use two peristaltic pumps
for the sparge. This ensures a very consistent low flow. It's so
consistent that the liquor addition and run off are exact. This
maintains the level in the mash tun. You can adjust the rate of sparge
by adjusting the speed of the pumps. This allows you to do a 60 minute
sparge, or 90 minute etc.

The system also has three LOVE controllers:

HLT: Set the "strike temperature" and "sparge temperature" by means of
the digital controller. It will maintain that temperature until re-set.

Mash Tun: Will have a heating element under the stainless false bottom.
The system will recirculate during the mash (via one of the peristaltic
pumps) and the LOVE controller will maintain the mash temperature by
controlling the heating element. If you do step mashing, you simply
adjust the LOVE controller to the desired temperatures and it brings it
right to it.

Kettle: Love controller for display (to monitor the chill phase).


So, by the time you add up the High Gravity system parts etc., you will
not be too far off the price for our system and you will get a heck of a
lot more with our system. We're very excited about this one coming out.
Like I had mentioned, I will have some info (photo's, dimensions, etc.)
as early as next week.


----------------
He gave me permission to post this, and it sure is interesting.

Appears that you get what you pay for ..
 

JVD_X

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I have a concern about the brewmation system: it appears to be made from four flat HDPE pieces welded together which could potentially leave room for bacteria to grow. I may be wrong... when someone actually gets one could your please take some detailed pictures of the corners?
 

Ecnerwal

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Even if there are crevices at the seams (I doubt it - if they are properly plastic-welded, and they should be at that price, I'd expect none) it's preboil, so a basic cleaning before use should be adequate.

Gah - made me go look.

A bit too automated (6 pumps is absurd). Rather than syncronizing two peristaltics, using a double-tube single-motor peristaltic makes for perfect synch of sparge in and wort out - at less cost. Peristaltics are nice in that they are self-priming and pump gas, liquid or slurries.

Not overdoing the automation would also mean that that same pump could do all the pumping needed, with occasional help from the operator, and 5 less pumps. Later on it could save you from ever needing to siphon.

Love the "deep drawn stainless kettle" - aka, the kitchen sink. Literally. :drunk:

Of course, you're buying "a system", but for that kind of money you can get into an electric steam kettle from ebay (or used restaurant supply) for your boil pot. Or an electric boiler and a direct steam kettle, and steam heating your mash.
 

daborders

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ok Since I've been using my buddies turkey fryer (and a clean new pot) I've been looking for my own. Found one today at one of the several stores going out of business nowadays.
but It's an electric turkey fryer.
Masterbuilt Turkey Fryer
I grabbed it, already has a drain valve. And if anything it should work great for a mini mash as I can hold the temp perfect.

It seems to be 15 degrees off and the lowest setting is 150 F. (actually 135 F) which is perfect for staged mashing.

Any thoughts on why this wouldn't work?
 

kappclark

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I could see using this for the boil ...even has a drain valve !

I am not seeing anything wrong with this ...

what does the inside look like ?

Why not get another for the HLT ?
 
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Well here is mine not saying how i made it (but y can probably guess) do not want people killing themselves..... As to the temperatures i am still testing it (mainly because i do not have a thermometer)


(sorry abut the bad images will post more tomorrow...)
 

kappclark

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I suppose some might object bec of aluminum ...

Mt dad made coffee for yeard in aluminum drip ...must have tasted awful
 

BrewBeemer

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Has anyone located Brewmations calculation chart that show 5, 10, 15 and 20 gallon volumes with diffferent wattage elements and how many minutes it takes to go from a certain temp to boil times? I have seen this chart by them only once in the past and can not locate it again. I would like to keep this calculator chart for future project calculations for wattage numbers to work on different projects. Thanks in advance. Carl........
 

kappclark

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Question abt wiring ..

In starting out, I will probably go for a 220 circuit.

Assuming a 4500W element for the BK, that comes out to abt 20 amps. What wire to use ? 10 gauge ? length of run wld be no more than 20 ft.

I think the HLT could get bu just fine with a $40 1000W bucket heater ..


The High Gravity system seems so expensive ($1,500 if you include the BK) ..It requires 220



I have a 120V 1500W element in my HLT and I use it to heat my strike water, HERMS water and sparge water. It works fine, takes about 90 mins to heat up, then is just runs. I am looking at running 220V in my garage and upgrading my element. I dont HAVE to, but it would be nice, and it would be cheap since my neighbor can do it for me.
 

The Pol

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1000W is pretty weak... I have 1500W in my HLT and would like to have larger, but I cannot fit it in the tank and keep it submerged at all times. To get only 5 gallons from 70F-175F would take almost an hour and a half. A 1500W heating element is cheaper than a bucket heater and will do the task in about 53 mins...
 

missing link

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I'm using 1500 watt elements in both my MLT and HLT. On 5 gallon batches I get about a 1 degree per minute temp rise. If I'm in a hurry I pre-heat the water in my boil kettle on my propane burner, otherwise I set-up and let the system run for 2 hours before doughing in.

Linc
 

daborders

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has anyone tried bending the element away from the original shape? Issues?
 

slnies

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You are correct sur. A number 10 agw wire is it. you will also need a two pole thirty amp breaker to go along with that.

Question abt wiring ..

In starting out, I will probably go for a 220 circuit.

Assuming a 4500W element for the BK, that comes out to abt 20 amps. What wire to use ? 10 gauge ? length of run wld be no more than 20 ft.

I think the HLT could get bu just fine with a $40 1000W bucket heater ..


The High Gravity system seems so expensive ($1,500 if you include the BK) ..It requires 220
 

The Pol

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I just installed a new circuit in my garage and it was simple. Two pole 30A breaker, #10 AWG wire (4 wires) to a 50A (4 wire) range outlet. This will then feel 2 hots, one neutral and one gorund into my control box for various electrical components 220 AND 120v. It was a little under $20... and looks sweet.

Since my garage is finished, I installed the oulet about a foot below my existing breaker box to make the install easier. It also happnes to be within 6' of where I set up my brew rig when I brew, so it is perfect.

I still need to upgrade my kettle to electric and get my control panel built, I should be brewing again by February(ish) The circuit was cheap, the kettle upgrade to electric will be cheap, the control panel however with PID, SSR, heat sink, switches and distribution blocks etc... will be much more $$$$$.
 

kal

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I just installed a new circuit in my garage and it was simple. Two pole 30A breaker, #10 AWG wire (4 wires) to a 50A (4 wire) range outlet. This will then feel 2 hots, one neutral and one gorund into my control box for various electrical components 220 AND 120v. It was a little under $20... and looks sweet.

Since my garage is finished, I installed the oulet about a foot below my existing breaker box to make the install easier. It also happnes to be within 6' of where I set up my brew rig when I brew, so it is perfect.

I still need to upgrade my kettle to electric and get my control panel built, I should be brewing again by February(ish) The circuit was cheap, the kettle upgrade to electric will be cheap, the control panel however with PID, SSR, heat sink, switches and distribution blocks etc... will be much more $$$$$
If it was cheap I take it the two pole 30A breaker is not a GFI breaker? It should be mentioned here that for safety reasons anyone doing this really SHOULD be using a GFI breaker and not a regular breaker. A lot of people choose not to use a GFI breaker because they're a lot more expensive.

If someone chooses to bypass safety to save a few bucks then so be it, but you should make sure to point this out to others so that the newbies know that this was a conscious choice on your part to go against possible safety codes in your area.

Kal
 

slnies

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If it was cheap I take it the two pole 30A breaker is not a GFI breaker? It should be mentioned here that for safety reasons anyone doing this really SHOULD be using a GFI breaker and not a regular breaker. A lot of people choose not to use a GFI breaker because they're a lot more expensive.

If someone chooses to bypass safety to save a few bucks then so be it, but you should make sure to point this out to others so that the newbies know that this was a conscious choice on your part to go against possible safety codes in your area.

Kal
A point well made! You are very correct, although, if you look, a deal can be had on a GFCI breaker. It should also be noted that due to the new code regulations, prices of said breakers will most likely drop. Manufactures have a lot of sway over code requirements and so the new code requires everything to be either GFCI protected or arc-fault protected, period. These requirements will make them more available. In the short term, they may be more expensive because the factories are not yet geared for larger productions runs on those parts, but as they retool the parts will become less expensive. S
 

BrewBeemer

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I've been asked for info but I am reluctant because water and electricity can kill.

Plus UK electrics are different to US electrics.
Yeah the electrons across the pond go down the wrong side of the wires vs here in the U.S.of A. plus 50 cycle. J/K. The steering wheels on the wrong side of their cars also but still fun driving over there as they don't use the horn all the time like here in the U.S. plus blinkers are optional here. Just a guessing game which lane cars in front of you they decide to drive in. Left for slower traffic here.
 

BrewBeemer

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I just installed a new circuit in my garage and it was simple. Two pole 30A breaker, #10 AWG wire (4 wires) to a 50A (4 wire) range outlet.
Should anything happen to those #10 gauge wires off that 50 amp range socket before reaching that 30 amp breaker you have created a fire hazard as 10 gauge will not handle 50 amps it takes to trip that 50 amp breaker. The fire investigation report to your homeowners insurance policy holder will not pay out a claim should you have a fire, think about it was it worth it? TW your at 6 AWG, THW 6 AWG, THHN #8 AWG to handle 50 amps. After the 30 amp breaker you can use #10 AWG wire. This is almost as bad as splitting a range circuit and feeding two 120 volt plugs with 12 gauge wire and still have the bridged 50 amp breaker not replacing it for two 20 amp breakers and not a two pole 20 amp breaker that has a bridge. What your doing I would not touch at all do to liability.
Add a 30 amp GFI breaker at the panel and run a dedicated circuit for your brewing equipment. Better yet go with a 40 amp breaker with up graded wire gauge in case you decide to use higher wattage heating elements in the future with your new brewing rig.
 

The Pol

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What your doing I would not touch at all do to liability.
You wouldnt do this? Can you explain to me why YOU wouldnt do this? Did you even read my post?

30A GFCI(upgraded)----->10AWG wire------>50A 4 prong outlet------>50A range cord----->control box------> 23A load (5500W RIPP element).

Still not seeing a problem, except that you didnt read my post. Could have saved yourself a few minutes on your reprimand.
 
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has anyone tried bending the element away from the original shape? Issues?

No, you cannot change the shape of the element.

They contain a wire that is surrounded by a ceramic material that will crack and fracture the outer skin/surface.

There may be an element manufacture that makes one that will, but the ones for water heaters and hot plate elements are not.
 

BrewBeemer

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A big oops there on my part Pol, I (my mind) read it as #10 from a 50 amp receptacle instead of #10 "to a 50 amp receptacle", me bad it was a 2:00 AM reply. Another all nighter without sleep again. I'm up 30 to 45 hour at a time without sleep. In that reply I have seen it done the wrong unsafe way picking up range power with a gas stove installed vs electric.
I do find it odd that you have a "range outlet" as ranges are usually hard wired, 240 volt electric dryers with recptacles as plug ins.

I'm here to make you tear your hair out.
 

ajwillys

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Here's my eHLT. It's just a 4 gallon pot with a 1500w water heater element attached to a plumbing drain. I plug that into the temperature controller (the same one I use when fermenting) and run the sensor into a piece of 3/8 soft copper tubing with a cap on the end. It fits perfectly, btw. I've sense insulated it and it works pretty good. If I start with hot water, I can get to sparge temps in about 45 minutes, which is good enough.

 

The Pol

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A big oops there on my part Pol, I (my mind) read it as #10 from a 50 amp receptacle instead of #10 "to a 50 amp receptacle", me bad it was a 2:00 AM reply. Another all nighter without sleep again. I'm up 30 to 45 hour at a time without sleep. In that reply I have seen it done the wrong unsafe way picking up range power with a gas stove installed vs electric.
I do find it odd that you have a "range outlet" as ranges are usually hard wired, 240 volt electric dryers with recptacles as plug ins.

I'm here to make you tear your hair out.

Package sayes 50A Range outlet. Looking at my range in my home, it is not "hard wired", it has a 4 prong plug that plugs into a 4 prong outlet. Like this one that is now in my garage. I have lived in 6 homes and never seen a range "hard wired" into the house.
PASS & SEYMOUR 3894CC6 50ABlack Flush Ran Outlet
 

kappclark

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Here's my eHLT. It's just a 4 gallon pot with a 1500w water heater element attached to a plumbing drain. I plug that into the temperature controller (the same one I use when fermenting) and run the sensor into a piece of 3/8 soft copper tubing with a cap on the end. It fits perfectly, btw. I've sense insulated it and it works pretty good. If I start with hot water, I can get to sparge temps in about 45 minutes, which is good enough.

It doesn't get much simpler than that, I guess

I guess that would be a heat stick .. easy to build ?

1500W - can the ranco handle that much ? (I know it can cause you are using it ..!)

I am curious what the limits for the ranco are ...
 

The Pol

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A JC A419 can handle 16A, that is more than a 1500W element.
 

stevehaun

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Pol:
Since your GFI breaker is 30 amps, why not use a 30 amp 4 prong outlet and 30 amp power cord?
I understand that your load is less than 25 amps and won't overload your circuit.
 
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