Electric Brewing - Ventilation

[Bonas96]

I am going electric...using Blichmann with boil coil and will be brewing 5g batches in a 10g pot. I will be brewing in an unfinished section in my basement and am looking for reasonably priced ventilation options / recommendations.

Cheers!!

 

[thomasjr16]

Im going to follow this simple design when I order the parts in a few days. I don't have any experience with this setup but it seems cost effective and straight forward. Unlike the 4" inline fane used in the post, I'll be buying a 6" ventech fan (hrydrofarm rated and 400 cfm at its peak) for $70.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f256/easy-cheap-stainless-vent-hood-418665/

 

[thomasjr16]

Oh and don't forget to determine if you need makeup air with your ventilation system. This whole process was a little daunting at first but after a little reading I stumbled upon this webpage that has a worksheet you fill in values to and determine if makeup air is needed. It is for Minnesota (and I'm in PA) but I'm sure it's good enough. Just use the worksheet that fits your homes age.

http://www.structuretech1.com/2013/10/how-to-determine-if-makeup-air-is-required/

For my scenario, the 440 cfm potential fan requires an 8" passive opening which will be solved by opening a window in the basement during brewing.

The whole point to this is that you don't want to backdraft any devices (sucking CO/CO2 emissions from the hot water heater or furnace) that may be using combustion air from the basement as opposed to having a dedicated air intake pipe that runs from the outside to the device directly.

If you have a high efficiency furnace then you most likely gave a dedicated air intake vent for it from outside like I do. Your hot water heater though will either be power vented or have a vent that above it, if gas, and that's a concern for back drafting

 

[drksky]

I built one similar to the one in this thread and it seems to do an adequate job. Luckily, my brew stand is right next to a basement window, so I only had to use about four feet of ducting to get outside.

 

[Bonas96]

Oh and don't forget to determine if you need makeup air with your ventilation system. This whole process was a little daunting at first but after a little reading I stumbled upon this webpage that has a worksheet you fill in values to and determine if makeup air is needed. It is for Minnesota (and I'm in PA) but I'm sure it's good enough. Just use the worksheet that fits your homes age.

http://www.structuretech1.com/2013/10/how-to-determine-if-makeup-air-is-required/

For my scenario, the 440 cfm potential fan requires an 8" passive opening which will be solved by opening a window in the basement during brewing.

The whole point to this is that you don't want to backdraft any devices (sucking CO/CO2 emissions from the hot water heater or furnace) that may be using combustion air from the basement as opposed to having a dedicated air intake pipe that runs from the outside to the device directly.

If you have a high efficiency furnace then you most likely gave a dedicated air intake vent for it from outside like I do. Your hot water heater though will either be power vented or have a vent that above it, if gas, and that's a concern for back drafting

So if both my furnace and hot water heater are direct vent to the outside, I should be OK without makeup air?

 

[thomasjr16]

Not sure if everything would be "ideal" without makeup air but at least you don't have to concern yourself with potentially sucking the gaseous byproducts of combustion back into the house.

I'd still try to leave a door or window cracked just a bit so that the exhaust flow is most efficient. If you just vent from the inside out, you run the potential of having less pressure inside (your house) than outside so the exhaust fan won't work as efficiently, not capturing as much steam as it could.

And you're positive that the water heater has an intake vent from the outside and not just an outlet vent directly outside?

 

[augiedoggy]

So if both my furnace and hot water heater are direct vent to the outside, I should be OK without makeup air?

those units all have to "pull" air from somewhere... Would rather have negative pressure pulling cold air in from every nook and cranny thoughout your house it would work if you house is old and drafty but the downside it its going to make your living space THAT MUCH MORE cold and drafty.... If it were me I would create a makeup air source in the basement or room where its needed... cracking a window is the easiest way...

 

[thomasjr16]

+1 to augie

Don't overthink the makeup air debacle, just crack a window or door. You don't need another pipe and fan coming into your basement (unless you have a monster cfm exhaust fan, but my small 400 cfm fan only needs an 8" passive opening (ie cracked basement window, now fan)

 

[MindenMan]

Around your exhaust duct, I would plug the rest of the window closed with cardboard. Air will take the path of least resistance, and some of it may be coming back in the window, even though it doesn't look like it. With the only source of air now being across the basement, you can be pretty sure the air exchange you want is happening.

 

[mabrungard]

I employed a 6" in-line blower and a hood constructed out of wood and plexiglass. Since this is an electric brewery, the wood and plexiglass is not an issue. Works well. The plexiglass allows more light into the brewing area from the overhead light.

 

[wilserbrewer]

looking for reasonably priced ventilation options / recommendations.

Cheers!!

I put a simple fan like this in the basement window
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/la...955165&pdv=c&gclid=CImdg9aegMMCFSho7AodZxgAZg

Recently started using a second fan like this to mix the brewery air as I was getting a little steam build up above the window opening.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/QV-Tools-Table-Fan/39889207

This was easy, I had fans in the house, and tried it out and seems to work fine. I will let the fans run 20-30 minutes after flame out to rid any lingering humidity.
I like a simple approach....fan in window, blow air out
Works very well....all you need IME.

 

[augiedoggy]

I put a simple fan like this in the basement window
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/la...955165&pdv=c&gclid=CImdg9aegMMCFSho7AodZxgAZg

Recently started using a second fan like this to mix the brewery air as I was getting a little steam build up above the window opening.

Works very well....all you need IME.

I use one of these double widow fans as well... along with a big hood I build out of taped together foam board... Ghetto looking? sure.... someday after I move I will upgrade to something more cosmetically pleasing but since there no flames or grease to worry about, theres no practical reason it needs to be stainless that I can see... There's plenty of options that are just as easy to wipe off and clean when it comes to steam.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I am going electric...using Blichmann with boil coil and will be brewing 5g batches in a 10g pot. I will be brewing in an unfinished section in my basement and am looking for reasonably priced ventilation options / recommendations.

Cheers!!

As I've posted in other threads about venting...

A 6" inline fan pulls about 435 CFM and spins at 2915 RPM.
An 8" inline fan pulls about 745 CFM and spins at 2530 RPM.

So an 8" fan pulls nearly twice the steam and spins slower, meaning it's less noisy. And the cost between a 6" setup and an 8" setup is not that great.

I have an 8" setup and it's very quiet and it pulls so much air that the steam doesn't even have a chance to condensate on the inside of the hood. So I was able to get away with a wooden hood. But I did line the inside with plastic. Didn't need to, but I did anyway.

I bought the Hurricane 8" Inline Fan. $107.95 + $12.19 shipping on Amazon.

 

[Bonas96]

And you're positive that the water heater has an intake vent from the outside and not just an outlet vent directly outside?

HVAC guy was here today for something else...confirmed that HVAC and Water Heater pull ambient air and vent to outside.

That said, given that basement is large and utilities are in unfinished area on other side of basement, he didn't seem to think makeup air was an issue...there is 3,000 sq ft down there to pull from.

I'm thinking I don't worry, and just open the door in the unfinished area a bit on brew day.

 

[KartRacer54]

As a person that nearly died in a lower level office that had a water heater draft fan fail. Be sure to install carbon monoxide detector. The only way to be sure you are safe!

 

[Bonas96]

Let me just ask the question...given that I am doing electric and will be doing 60 min, 5 gallon boils...do I NEED to vent? Assuming I am not concerned about the heat, could I manage the humidity with a dehumidifier in the brew area?

 

[JoshuaW]

Let me just ask the question...given that I am doing electric and will be doing 60 min, 5 gallon boils...do I NEED to vent? Assuming I am not concerned about the heat, could I manage the humidity with a dehumidifier in the brew area?

You are dealing with roughly a gallon of water in boil off. Would you be comfortable dumping a gallon of water in your brew area and letting it evaporate?

 

[brent756]

Not to hijack this thread but I'm wondering if anyone could offer some input on a venting solution for my soon to be electric setup. I'm going to be heating and boiling in the same kettle and it will be directly beneath a basement window that's 28x28 inches. Don't let the propane stand throw you off, won't be heating with that, it's just the right height to drain into my mash tun.

I was originally going to go this build route, but I'm wondering if that's maybe overkill since I'm right beneath the window?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f256/easy-cheap-stainless-vent-hood-418665/

I'll be removing that window AC unit and putting the original window back.I was thinking about just throwing a 20 inch box fan up in the open window and cranking it to high. Maybe throw up a cheap craigslist range hood if I notice any moisture just above the kettle.

Also, I have another window of the same dimensions about 10 feet away from that window. I was just hoping that just opening that window would be good enough for make up air.

 

[wilserbrewer]

...do I NEED to vent? Assuming I am not concerned about the heat, could I manage the humidity with a dehumidifier in the brew area?

Your brew area will become like a steamy sauna, IMO you NEED to vent. A dehumidifier is not designed for an application like brewing and will take the better part of a day to reduce the humidity...

I was originally going to go this build route, but I'm wondering if that's maybe overkill since I'm right beneath the window?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f256/easy-cheap-stainless-vent-hood-418665/

I'll be removing that window AC unit and putting the original window back.I was thinking about just throwing a 20 inch box fan up in the open window and cranking it to high. Maybe throw up a cheap craigslist range hood if I notice any moisture just above the kettle.

Also, I have another window of the same dimensions about 10 feet away from that window. I was just hoping that just opening that window would be good enough for make up air.

You can certainly capture the steam with a stainless bowl connected to a ducted fan...it has been done. I would just put a box fan in the window and blow the room air out, either will work IMO. If you get joy in building, then build a system around a stainless bowl, duct fan and duct....If you just want to move a large quantity of air out of the room, use a box fan in the open window.

 

[augiedoggy]

You are dealing with roughly a gallon of water in boil off. Would you be comfortable dumping a gallon of water in your brew area and letting it evaporate?

I tried to do my first brew by just opening a window for ventilation....I had water literally covering my spare bedroom ceiling and dripping on me and everything in the room... it was a real mess.... I needed both the dual fans and the hood to stop this myself.
You dont have to worry about co2 or any of that with electric but I believe it it had gotten any worse for me the light fixture in my ceiling would have shorted out.

 

[augiedoggy]

Not to hijack this thread but I'm wondering if anyone could offer some input on a venting solution for my soon to be electric setup. I'm going to be heating and boiling in the same kettle and it will be directly beneath a basement window that's 28x28 inches. Don't let the propane stand throw you off, won't be heating with that, it's just the right height to drain into my mash tun.

I was originally going to go this build route, but I'm wondering if that's maybe overkill since I'm right beneath the window?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f256/easy-cheap-stainless-vent-hood-418665/

I'll be removing that window AC unit and putting the original window back.I was thinking about just throwing a 20 inch box fan up in the open window and cranking it to high. Maybe throw up a cheap craigslist range hood if I notice any moisture just above the kettle.

Also, I have another window of the same dimensions about 10 feet away from that window. I was just hoping that just opening that window would be good enough for make up air.

a hood would still be best even if its made of plywood, underlayment or even painted cardboard.

 

[kpr121]

As I've posted in other threads about venting...

A 6" inline fan pulls about 435 CFM and spins at 2915 RPM.
An 8" inline fan pulls about 745 CFM and spins at 2530 RPM.

So an 8" fan pulls nearly twice the steam and spins slower, meaning it's less noisy. And the cost between a 6" setup and an 8" setup is not that great.

I have an 8" setup and it's very quiet and it pulls so much air that the steam doesn't even have a chance to condensate on the inside of the hood. So I was able to get away with a wooden hood. But I did line the inside with plastic. Didn't need to, but I did anyway.

I bought the Hurricane 8" Inline Fan. $107.95 + $12.19 shipping on Amazon.

Great point and its something I picked up on other threads. I just bought a active air 8inch inline fan ($100 or so on Amazon). First trial is going to be adapting it to blow through a 4 inch duct that was used by the old dryer. Plan to put a fan speed controller on it so its not blowing full blast and causing a ton of turbulance.

If thats not enough flow to evacuate the steam I will size up the ducting to 6 or 8 inch, but I'm thinking 4 inch will work for standard 10 gallon boils.

OP, seems like you are leaning towards the 'do nothing' option, which may be adequate. But if you do decide to buy a dedicated fan, I would go bigger than you really need so you take advantage of a quieter operation.

 

[Bonas96]

OP, seems like you are leaning towards the 'do nothing' option, which may be adequate. But if you do decide to buy a dedicated fan, I would go bigger than you really need so you take advantage of a quieter operation.

I am actually leaning towards replicating the stainless steel bowl setup with an inline fan, but am trying to not overdo it.

I don't fully understand how to determine the need for makeup air, and given that I will likely only run any fan at around 300 cfm, I am trying to avoid drilling 2 holes into the side of my house. The wife is already not thrilled about 1 hole (even though she did get me the electric kettle for Christmas).

 

[kpr121]

I am actually leaning towards replicating the stainless steel bowl setup with an inline fan, but am trying to not overdo it.

I don't fully understand how to determine the need for makeup air, and given that I will likely only run any fan at around 300 cfm, I am trying to avoid drilling 2 holes into the side of my house. The wife is already not thrilled about 1 hole (even though she did get me the electric kettle for Christmas).

Do you have any windows near the brew room or elsewhere downstairs that you could open to allow for makeup air.

300 cfm is a pretty high flowrate to rely solely on the cracks and gaps in your homes construction to provide makeup air. Plus it will make the rest of the house drafty and cold. Tell the wife you dont want her to have to be all bundled up when you brew.

 

[bbohanon]

I employed a 6" in-line blower and a hood constructed out of wood and plexiglass. Since this is an electric brewery, the wood and plexiglass is not an issue. Works well. The plexiglass allows more light into the brewing area from the overhead light.

I am totally stealing this idea.
Looks GREAT!

 

[thomasjr16]

Another inexpensive option is to employ a rectangle Rubbermaid tote as your hood (Google: Rubbermaid exhaust hood brew).

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1420723463.716730.jpg

I was going to use the SS bowl or tote idea but I just so happen to have a Rubbermaid tote in the basement. I will be placing the fan up against the tote so that it's pulling/pushing as much steam through the fan as possible to eliminate as much condensation build up in the fan housing as possible.

 

[Hello]

I am actually leaning towards replicating the stainless steel bowl setup with an inline fan, but am trying to not overdo it.

I don't fully understand how to determine the need for makeup air, and given that I will likely only run any fan at around 300 cfm, I am trying to avoid drilling 2 holes into the side of my house. The wife is already not thrilled about 1 hole (even though she did get me the electric kettle for Christmas).

Basically you can create a vacuum even with the 300 cfm fan you're getting. If you have another window or if you can leave the door open, then I think that will do it. No need to drill another hole. I could be wrong though.

Let me just ask the question...given that I am doing electric and will be doing 60 min, 5 gallon boils...do I NEED to vent? Assuming I am not concerned about the heat, could I manage the humidity with a dehumidifier in the brew area?

I say yes. Here is why. I am currently brewing with an induction cook top in my kitchen which has an open area for seating and then my family room. I have a fairly open floor plan. I brew right in front of my kitchen counter nearby 3 windows. I had no visible signs of condensation building up but one day I came down and noticed some white stuff on my floor. Little tiny bits of the popcorn (acoustic) ceiling had come off. My only assumption was that the condensation had caused the that acoustic ceiling to get wet enough to fall on its own. It was truly minor and I need to scrape the ceiling anyway. I started using a window fan that can be switched to exhaust. I cannot tell if it works well but I am not seeing any real issue.

I am moving to a shed that is 8'x10'. It has a door that will have a screen door installed and a window that will open. I will use the same window fan but I ordered the 30 qt. mixing bowl with the intent to built a proper vent hood. The window was installed right where my boil kettle will sit, that was intentional. Since I have decided I will drywall the shed, moisture will definitely screw that up.

YMMV, but I say there has to be some sort of ventilation with electric, even if it is minor. A dehumidifier is going to be very costly to you because you will need something quite large to capture that much condensation right away. A gallon in an hour is a lot if you're thinking in terms of humidity.

 

[Bonas96]

I appreciate all of the feedback...I tend to over analyze things to the point of paralysis sometimes! I am very confortable with what I know, but cautious when I don't. The unfinished area I will brew in has a door to the outside, and I feel that as long as I leave that door ajar during the boil, I should be fine. It will certainly provide more air than any 4in vent would.

 

[stee6043]

I appreciate all of the feedback...I tend to over analyze things to the point of paralysis sometimes! I am very confortable with what I know, but cautious when I don't. The unfinished area I will brew in has a door to the outside, and I feel that as long as I leave that door ajar during the boil, I should be fine. It will certainly provide more air than any 4in vent would.

I would bet you're going to have a rather frustrating first brew day if you plan on just using an open door for ventilation. A good rolling boil on 6 gallons of liquid puts off a lot of steam.


Here's how I am guessing it will go:

Brew Day 1
1.) 20 minutes into the boil your windows will start to steam but you'll think "no big deal".
2.) 30 minutes in you'll start to notice some moisture accumulating on the joists/materials directly above your boil kettle and you'll figure "I'll be fine getting through this boil, shouldn't get much worse"
3.) 40 minutes in and crap will start dripping back down from above, into your kettle, and you'll think "hmm, I hope that doesn't cause any off flavors, guess I need to get a vent figured out for the next brew day"

Brew Day 2
1.) deploy salad bowl/bin hood with fan
2.) enjoy brew day
3.) wish you hadn't ruined brew day #1


For what it's worth I run the salad bowl rig and I vent it through my slider with a temporary rig I put together. I don't want to look at the hood/fan setup when I'm enjoying my basement so I made mine entirely portable. I only deploy on brew days. And I use some 3/4" insulation and 1/8" plywood to fill the gap in my slider during brew days to keep the cold out of the basement.

 

[Bonas96]

I would bet you're going to have a rather frustrating first brew day if you plan on just using an open door for ventilation. A good rolling boil on 6 gallons of liquid puts off a lot of steam.

To clarify, I am going to do the salad bowl w/ fan to vent, but just rely on the door for makeup air.

 

[Bonas96]

Another inexpensive option is to employ a rectangle Rubbermaid tote as your hood (Google: Rubbermaid exhaust hood brew).

View attachment 247331

I was going to use the SS bowl or tote idea but I just so happen to have a Rubbermaid tote in the basement. I will be placing the fan up against the tote so that it's pulling/pushing as much steam through the fan as possible to eliminate as much condensation build up in the fan housing as possible.

Have you expereinced much condensation on this setup, or any issues with water dripping down into kettle from the tote?

What size fan are you running and are you doing anything for makeup air?

 

[thomasjr16]

Have you expereinced much condensation on this setup, or any issues with water dripping down into kettle from the tote?



What size fan are you running and are you doing anything for makeup air?

I haven't had any experience with the setup as I'm just building my first exhaust hood now as well. I PM'd the original developer/poster of the above picture and he said that it ran smoothly and only experienced some condensation within the fan housing that would drip out.

I suspect that the condensation within the fan housing is a result of his placing the inline fan down line of the hood. The steam will start to condense as it travels through the vent on its way to the fan and as a result build up condensation.

If you attach the fan to the hood, steam is pulled through without condensing and the force of the air movement pushes it outside (on a shorter run, 5-8ft ???) before it condenses.

Im using a $65 (shipped) inline 6" Ventech booster fan I bought on eBay the other day. It was $65 shipped as a "buy it now" item and not an auction.

 

[thomasjr16]

Have you expereinced much condensation on this setup, or any issues with water dripping down into kettle from the tote?



What size fan are you running and are you doing anything for makeup air?

I haven't had any experience with the setup as I'm just building my first exhaust hood now as well. I PM'd the original developer/poster of the above picture and he said that it ran smoothly and only experienced some condensation within the fan housing that would drip out.

I suspect that the condensation within the fan housing is a result of his placing the inline fan down line of the hood. The steam will start to condense as it travels through the vent on its way to the fan and as a result build up condensation.

If you attach the fan to the hood, steam is pulled through without condensing and the force of the air movement pushes it outside (on a shorter run, 5-8ft ???) before it condenses.

Im using a $65 (shipped) inline 6" Ventech booster fan I bought on eBay the other day. It was $65 shipped as a "buy it now" item and not an auction.

 

[thomasjr16]

And the makeup air will be provided by a small basement window that will be open on the other side of the basement.

 

[wilserbrewer]

To clarify, I am going to do the salad bowl w/ fan to vent, but just rely on the door for makeup air.

If it is a breezy day, perhaps the open door is all you need

Sorry but all this horse beating is making me silly...

 

[kal]

I don't fully understand how to determine the need for makeup air, and given that I will likely only run any fan at around 300 cfm, I am trying to avoid drilling 2 holes into the side of my house. The wife is already not thrilled about 1 hole (even though she did get me the electric kettle for Christmas).

The need for make up air is a combination of how tight your house is and how strong the exhaust fan is. As an interesting data point, where I live a make up system is required by code if your range hood fan is more than 290CFM. So in the basement of our current house (built to 2010 code) there's a massive 12" duct that comes from outside, that opens/closes with an electronic baffle whenever we run our range hood. The air is heated with a 3000W heater if the air's too cold (it was -31F today so it definitely gets cold here).

I have a separate make-up vent in my brewery so that when I brew I can close the brewery door and no suck heated (or cooled) air out of the rest of the house.

Kal

 

[Bonas96]

I have plunged....

Stainless Steel Bowl

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KYR0ZF4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

6" VenTech Inline Fan

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YXDQZU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

VenTech Variable Speed Control

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EVYGPJQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Now I just have to figure out how to drill a hole or two in my house....will post pictures as the adventure unfolds!

Thanks to all for the comments / ideas!

 

[augiedoggy]

I have plunged....

Stainless Steel Bowl

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KYR0ZF4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

6" VenTech Inline Fan

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YXDQZU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

VenTech Variable Speed Control

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EVYGPJQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Now I just have to figure out how to drill a hole or two in my house....will post pictures as the adventure unfolds!

Thanks to all for the comments / ideas!

I may have missed it but No basement windows? or are they glassblock...

 

[Bonas96]

I may have missed it but No basement windows? or are they glassblock...

No windows in this unfinished section of the basement, only an exterior door. That said, the brew section may ultimately get framed in so the short term solution of using the door for makeup air may be exactly that, short term.

 

[schematix]

I employed a 6" in-line blower and a hood constructed out of wood and plexiglass. Since this is an electric brewery, the wood and plexiglass is not an issue. Works well. The plexiglass allows more light into the brewing area from the overhead light.

Perhaps I missed this but what are the approximate dimensions of your hood? Do you get any condensation dripping from it? This happens to be quite similar to a design I was considering but I think my hood area might be a big larger.