Electric BIAB Questions

[SailorJerry]

So, my buddy and I both brew, and we typically do our brew days together. Currently, we both have 10 gallon pots, bags, and make 5 gallons at a time. Here is what I'm interested in, and I'm curious (I didn't see any posts about one) if it's possible.

So, let's say we move up to making 10 or 15 gallon batches, 30 gallon kettles. What I want to design is a brew stand that holds both kettles, a pulley system over top, and have the kettles both hooked up to the same control box that allows us to run two different mash temps in each kettle.

I just want to be able to set mash temp, and then increase that temp to boil. No other automation at this point. Can that be built into one control box? Can we use a ripple heat element with BIAB, or how do we go about finding an electric heat source with BIAB?

New to the electric side - have a buddy that could build it all for/with us, just trying to simplify things a bit. Thoughts? Input? Ideas?

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Look up Auber's EZBoil unit. You'll need to recirculate to maintain an even mash temp, and each kettle would need a separate controller box (or look to a single "brain" controller like BruControl or BCS, which is beyond my knowledge base). You could put both controller boxes (PIDs essentially) in a single panel.

Watch your amperage draw if doing two simultaneous large batches. Maintain a boil or mash temperature should be fine, but heating to boil with two 15g batches is a lot of power.

Essentially, you are looking at something similar to a 3 vessel system, where both the hot liquor tank and the boil kettle both serve as BIAB kettles.

 

[SailorJerry]

Good call on needing to recirculate, and I suppose you could have a switch on the control panel for that as well. I'm also assuming we can't use an in kettle heat source without risk of bag burning or damage? Again, this is all new to me, so if people answer the questions like I'm a 5 year old, I won't be offended

 

[cegan09]

Plenty of people use an in kettle element, but that's where re-circulation and a false bottom become necessary. Re-circulation keeps the temps more even, and the false bottom keeps the grains and bag off the element.

You're asking about using two BIAB kettles at the same time correct?

You can certainly build into one box, just make sure you know what you're doing. If you're going towards larger batches, so you'll be driving two 5500W elements for example, you may need two feeds to the control box to stay under the load for your circuit. Can be done. I did exactly that for my 120V system with two 1500W elements.

Agree with using the EZBoil controllers. I have one and love it.

your control box could be as simple as two inputs and then mirrored circuits to provide element power out, pump power out, themocouple temp in for each side.

 

[SailorJerry]

Thanks Cegan, and that's exactly what I want. Two BIAB kettles at the same time that can run independently of each other, different mash temps, primarily. Being in the same box would be awesome, and then we could build a brew stand to hold both kettles, condensing everything to conserve space. I know that's a lot of power output, but I think there'd be a way to get it done. 240v, 50amp breaker, GFCI, that should all do the trick, right?

I'll look into the EZBoil controllers and take a look at your RIMS build. I'm assuming we can use the heat element in the bottom, and the false bottom over top of that, which will keep the bag off the element, which is obviously imperative. I think it'd be a fun build, allow us to make quite a bit of beer at a time, and not be overly expensive to do.

 

[cegan09]

I'm not well versed in 240V power, because i don't have it in my current apartment. Two elements might be ok on a 50amp breaker. Just remember you're also powering the two pumps. Quick math says 5500W/220V = 25amps. So two elements puts you right at the limit. Might have to back down to a 4000-4500W elements.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I'm also assuming we can't use an in kettle heat source without risk of bag burning or damage?

I have seen some builds that do. The EZ Boil (or any PID) controls a solid state relay (SSR), which switches the element on and off many times per second. At a given percentage of power with proper recirculation, the element is not going to get too hot - the recirculating mash will pull the heat away, so in theory the element stays below the melting temperature of the bag. Otherwise, the water around it would vaporize. My planned build puts the element under a mesh bottom in an abundance of caution, but I am not certain it is necessary.

As for amperage draw, I expect 50A is fine. I am not an expert, of course, and I know enough to be dangerous, but so long as you are not heating to boil both kettles at the same time, you are probably okay. Maintaining a mash temp or boil is a lot less energy intensive than ramping temperature to a boil.

The other side is to be realistic with your needs and wants. Are you really going to be brewing a pair of 15g batches at the same time? That is a lot of beer (and a lot of grain, and a lot of hops . .. ), to make and drink.

 

[SailorJerry]

I have seen some builds that do. The EZ Boil (or any PID) controls a solid state relay (SSR), which switches the element on and off many times per second. At a given percentage of power with proper recirculation, the element is not going to get too hot - the recirculating mash will pull the heat away, so in theory the element stays below the melting temperature of the bag. Otherwise, the water around it would vaporize. My planned build puts the element under a mesh bottom in an abundance of caution, but I am not certain it is necessary.

As for amperage draw, I expect 50A is fine. I am not an expert, of course, and I know enough to be dangerous, but so long as you are not heating to boil both kettles at the same time, you are probably okay. Maintaining a mash temp or boil is a lot less energy intensive than ramping temperature to a boil.

The other side is to be realistic with your needs and wants. Are you really going to be brewing a pair of 15g batches at the same time? That is a lot of beer (and a lot of grain, and a lot of hops . .. ), to make and drink.

It's two of us, we both have kegerators, and friends that love the beer. We'd probably use it on our 5g batches to start, but I want it to be capable of bumping up to the 10-15g batches.

 

[Bobby_M]

You can do 15 gallon batches in a 25g kettle. You can protect the bag by using a false bottom.

 

[SailorJerry]

So, are we thinking running two kettles off the same control box is going to be too much of a power draw?

 

[cegan09]

Depends on your element. if you're using 5500W elements, yes I think you're going to be too close. Especially if your power is actually around 220V not 240V. Remember that you're going to be driving pumps, and you never want to operate right up against the rated limits of the breaker. It's true that during mash you're likely not at risk since you aren't at 100% power. But if you're trying to ramp both vessels at the same time I think you're in a dangerous area. Maybe you could stagger so that one kettle reaches strike temp, then backs off for maintaining temp and you mash while the second kettle comes up to strike. Then ramp the first to boil while the second mashes. Back the power off on kettle 1 once boil is achieved and be ready to ramp kettle 2. Slows down brew day to do it that way, but it could work. Might not be the safest if you forget to stagger though.

You could use lower powered elements such as 4500W units. But that may slow you down if you're going for 15 gallon batches eventually.

Physically building a box that accepts two feeds and has two separate internal circuits isn't hard. You're basically just building two different control boxes inside one enclosure. The hard part there is getting access to two separate 240V feeds.