Elderberry wine stuck - several attempts to revive it.

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The forager

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I have an elderberry wine. Used EC1118 yeast and the reading last July was 1.090.

I only checked it two weeks ago and realised it’s still at the same OG.

I have added more yeast and energiser. Nothing happened.

I then racked some of it off, added Gervin GV4 high alcohol yeast and some energiser and nutrient. I also put it on a heat mat.

Still nothing…

What on earth could it be? I feel like throwing the whole 5 gallon batch down the drain.
 
Also;
Have you calibrated your hydrometer? (I've had that problem)
Also, did you use a camden tablet?
If so, how long did you wait until pitching yeast?
Most importantly, how does it taste?
 
I used dried elderberries and granulated sugar.

Using a hydrometer to check gravity. My hydrometer is calibrated.

Didn’t use a Campden tablet.

It tastes sweet. Like sugary elderberries.
 
A lot of dried fruit has sulfites added to it. Check the ingredients of the elderberries that you used to see if there is a preservative in them which may be inhibiting your yeast.
Elderberries is the only ingredient on the packet. I purchased them in the home brew shop so would be surprised if sulphites were added and not displayed.
 
So when you initially added the yeast, did you see any fermentation activity?
Anything else added besides dried elderberries, water, sugar and yeast?
Pretty unusual that the yeast didn't do anything.
How big is the batch, and how much yeast was added?
 
So when you initially added the yeast, did you see any fermentation activity?
Anything else added besides dried elderberries, water, sugar and yeast?
Pretty unusual that the yeast didn't do anything.
How big is the batch, and how much yeast was added?
I can’t recall whether I saw anything. I make so much wine and it was last July. And have also moved house with the wine since then.

5 gallon batch.
Ingredients were:
1250g dried elderberries
7.5kg granulated sugar
1kg light brown sugar
5 lemons
1 sachet WC1118 yeast
3tsp pectolase
Yeast nutrient
 
I have an elderberry wine. Used EC1118 yeast and the reading last July was 1.090.

I only checked it two weeks ago and realised it’s still at the same OG.

I have added more yeast and energiser. Nothing happened.

I then racked some of it off, added Gervin GV4 high alcohol yeast and some energiser and nutrient. I also put it on a heat mat.

Still nothing…

What on earth could it be? I feel like throwing the whole 5 gallon batch down the drain.
Did you oxygenate it real good? Alcohol fermentation is aerobic and if there isn't sufficient O2 it won't go. Just a thought. Or like other said, there may have been some sort of preservative in your initial fruit like potassium sorbate (or other things).
 
Did you oxygenate it real good? Alcohol fermentation is aerobic and if there isn't sufficient O2 it won't go. Just a thought. Or like other said, there may have been some sort of preservative in your initial fruit like potassium sorbate (or other things).
Yeast cell growth is aerobic. When they run out of oxygen they begin fermenting anaerobically. Aeration isn't necessary if you pitch the proper amount of healthy, viable cells.
 
Elderberries is the only ingredient on the packet. I purchased them in the home brew shop so would be surprised if sulphites were added and not displayed.
Are those dried elderberries they sell in the homebrew stores meant to be fermented? Or just added after fermentation for color and perhaps a little flavor.
 
Did you oxygenate it real good? Alcohol fermentation is aerobic and if there isn't sufficient O2 it won't go. Just a thought. Or like other said, there may have been some sort of preservative in your initial fruit like potassium sorbate (or other things).
I have another two with the same issue. 1.020 and 1.050…both stuck.

Have tried nutrient, energiser and now as per your suggestion, just gave them a good stir. I hadn’t thought of aeration.

I’ll do it again tomorrow and for a few days and see if they get moving. Thanks for that suggestion.
 
Have tried nutrient, energiser and now as per your suggestion, just gave them a good stir. I hadn’t thought of aeration.
Aeration (or oxygenation) should be done upon pitching the yeast as it promotes growth of the colony. For high gravity fermentations a 2nd aeration/oxygenation is recommended, 12-18 hours after the initial one, yet, before active fermentation has started.

Aeration/oxygenation should be avoided after fermentation has started, as it may cause oxidation, which is unwanted.

Aeration isn't necessary if you pitch the proper amount of healthy, viable cells.
But that's not the case here. 5 grams of dry yeast is far from a proper pitch into 5 gallons of 1.091 must.

Or like other said, there may have been some sort of preservative in your initial fruit like potassium sorbate (or other things).
That's becoming the most likely cause.
 
Are those dried elderberries they sell in the homebrew stores meant to be fermented? Or just added after fermentation for color and perhaps a little flavor.
I have another batch using elderberries from the same store and it’s doing great. They are meant for fermenting.
 
Aeration (or oxygenation) should be done upon pitching the yeast as it promotes growth of the colony. For high gravity fermentations a 2nd aeration/oxygenation is recommended, 12-18 hours after the initial one, yet, before active fermentation has started.

Aeration/oxygenation should be avoided after fermentation has started, as it may cause oxidation, which is unwanted.


But that's not the case here. 5 grams of dry yeast is far from a proper pitch into 5 gallons of 1.091 must.


That's becoming the most likely cause.
Doesn’t explain the other two I have stuck.
My thinking is that during our moving house in December, the cold storage over a few days did some damage. I am not convinced it’s preservatives since I’ve made other batches of elderberry since with no issues.
 
Doesn’t explain the other two I have stuck.
Exactly, that's the real puzzle.

I am not convinced it’s preservatives since I’ve made other batches of elderberry since with no issues.
Are the berries from the same company?
Did you pitch more yeast in those? Aerate perhaps?

My thinking is that during our moving house in December, the cold storage over a few days did some damage.
Unless those froze solid, killing the yeast, which is unlikely, a mere cold "snap" may stall a fermentation, but usually resumes when it warms up. That is, unless it was approaching terminal gravity, and a high alcohol level.
 
Exactly, that's the real puzzle.


Are the berries from the same company?
Did you pitch more yeast in those? Aerate perhaps?


Unless those froze solid, killing the yeast, which is unlikely, a mere cold "snap" may stall a fermentation, but usually resumes when it warms up. That is, unless it was approaching terminal gravity, and a high alcohol level.
Yes berries are Youngs brand from my local homebrew shop.
 
I can think of lots of reasons that the fermentation might not start. But there aren't that many that will cause it to get stuck after it has started. If there are preservatives in the dried fruit, it might not start at all. But once it has started, that is unlikely to be the problem.

Here are some things that come to mind that might cause the fermentation to stop once it has started:
* Hitting the alcohol tolerance level for the yeast
* Too little nutrients
* A change in temperature (e.g. moving to a colder location)
* Something added to the wine after it has started (e.g. fruit containing preservatives)

As @IslandLizard said, cooler temperatures won't harm the yeast unless you freeze it solid. If it is too cold to ferment, the yeast might become dormant and restart once it warms up again. In that case, stirring might help get the yeast started again. Look up the datasheet for your yeast to find the optimal fermentation temperature.

You should consider each wine individually. Using the OG an the current SG, what is the ABV? If the ABV is above a certain level (I think about 8-9%), then the yeast cannot make use of nutrients and so adding nutrients won't help.

If you are not sure why fermentation has stopped you could try making a yeast starter. The goal is to get a healthy, active yeast colony ready to add to the wine. Rehydrate the yeast at the manufacturer's recommended temperature, prefereably using Go-Ferm. Then gradually add some your wine, starting with 50% the volume of the starter, then add enough to double thev volume again. Each time wait until you see clear signs of fermentation before you add more wine. After the 2nd addition you might want to let the starter work overnight. This procedure will help the yeast adjust to what is apparently difficult conditions. They you have a vigorous yeast colony to the wine. Dry pitching more yeast in a stuck fermentation is unlikely to make any difference.
 
I can think of lots of reasons that the fermentation might not start. But there aren't that many that will cause it to get stuck after it has started. If there are preservatives in the dried fruit, it might not start at all. But once it has started, that is unlikely to be the problem.

Here are some things that come to mind that might cause the fermentation to stop once it has started:
* Hitting the alcohol tolerance level for the yeast
* Too little nutrients
* A change in temperature (e.g. moving to a colder location)
* Something added to the wine after it has started (e.g. fruit containing preservatives)

As @IslandLizard said, cooler temperatures won't harm the yeast unless you freeze it solid. If it is too cold to ferment, the yeast might become dormant and restart once it warms up again. In that case, stirring might help get the yeast started again. Look up the datasheet for your yeast to find the optimal fermentation temperature.

You should consider each wine individually. Using the OG an the current SG, what is the ABV? If the ABV is above a certain level (I think about 8-9%), then the yeast cannot make use of nutrients and so adding nutrients won't help.

If you are not sure why fermentation has stopped you could try making a yeast starter. The goal is to get a healthy, active yeast colony ready to add to the wine. Rehydrate the yeast at the manufacturer's recommended temperature, prefereably using Go-Ferm. Then gradually add some your wine, starting with 50% the volume of the starter, then add enough to double thev volume again. Each time wait until you see clear signs of fermentation before you add more wine. After the 2nd addition you might want to let the starter work overnight. This procedure will help the yeast adjust to what is apparently difficult conditions. They you have a vigorous yeast colony to the wine. Dry pitching more yeast in a stuck fermentation is unlikely to make any difference.
I have a couple stuck at the moment. All around 5% ABV. I’ve added a yeast starter to each yesterday. No movement as yet. Will watch them closely over the next week.
 
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