Educate me...my first weird occurrence

[xaugievike]

Hi all...

I've been happily chugging along with regular extract brewing for about a year and a half now. All has gone well.

This weekend i brewed an otherwise simple ipa and used a wyeast American ale smack pack...which swelled up when activated as others I've used have. I got concerned when at 12, 24, and 36 hours I had zero airlock activity. Until this point even my slowest fermentation at least "floated" the airlock cap, even if it wasn't bubbling. This one had nothing, zero.

So I removed the airlock and plug to peak inside. I saw no noticeable kreusen. I did see some smaller white "spots" though. Not sure what those are. I should have taken a picture....but I'd describe then as having a more "bubbly" appearance than a "fuzzy" one (first thing I thought of course was infection). A quick sniff test didn't reveal any bad odors either....if that's worth anything.

So, perhaps in a bit of a panic to maybe save the batch I pitched in a packet of US-05 dry yeast I had.

This morning I had bubbles, and just now (about 18 hours later) I've got normal vigorous airlock bubbling.

So, my questions are about what I experienced....what happened to the original wyeast (if anything)? what are/were the white spots? What should I look for as signs if a spoiled batch as this fermentation goes on?

 

[unionrdr]

Well,one time I had the contents of a smack pack come to the top as typical yeast rafts. I thought,oh great here we go...
Per yooper's suggestion I let it ride & they sunk back into the beer & started fermenting. I think that might've been the batch where the ice bath got it down to 50-something?...

 

[LLBeanJ]

Sounds like what you saw initially were yeast rafts. More than likely if you would have given it more time, you would have seen increased activity and a normal fermentation. What was your OG and pitch rate? Sounds like you pitched the contents of the smack pack without a starter, which in most cases would be underpitching, leading to increased lag time before active fermentation begins.

 

[xaugievike]

Yeast rafts.....that's a new one to me...thanks!

Some of the pics I've now searched do look like what's been described as yeast rafts.

One (comforting) thing was that what I saw didn't resemble any of the infection pictures I've seen (and looked at right away) as those seem to have a more fibrous and/or "busted sheet of ice" look to them.

 

[brewprint]

Sounds like what you saw initially were yeast rafts. More than likely if you would have given it more time, you would have seen increased activity and a normal fermentation. What was your OG and pitch rate? Sounds like you pitched the contents of the smack pack without a starter, which in most cases would be underpitching, leading to increased lag time before active fermentation begins.

I thought that a smack pack is a yeast starter?

 

[LLBeanJ]

No. It's just a packet of nutrients to wake up the yeast and prepare them for the stresses of fermentation. It has no effect on the cell count or viability of the cells.

Starters increase the cell count and improve viability.

Edit: You can think of the nutrient pack as vitamins for the yeast.

 

[brewprint]

So is it even necessary to smack the pack if making a starter?

 

[LLBeanJ]

No, not at all. For reference, consider that White Labs vials have no equivalent to Wyeast's nutrient pack. They're just filled with pure yeast, which is exactly what you have with a Wyeast pack before the nutrient pack is smacked.

Edit: with that said, I'd still smack it, as the yeast can certainly benefit from the nutrients. If using White Labs yeast and making a starter, you'd want to add DAP or some other form of yeast nutrient to the starter wort.

 

[Trox]

Smacking the pack will help wake up the yeast before you pitch it in the starter, but you really don't need to. I would add the nutrient pack to your starter to so as to give the yeast a little something extra.

 

[brewprint]

I have a lot to learn.I was going to buy some wyeast for my next batch because I thought that it was an easy way to do a starter. I've just been using dry yeast so far.

I should just get the equipment to do a starter.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I should just get the equipment to do a starter.

Absolutely. Your beer will reward you for it.

 

[bleme]

I have a lot to learn.I was going to buy some wyeast for my next batch because I thought that it was an easy way to do a starter. I've just been using dry yeast so far.



I should just get the equipment to do a starter.

Properly rehydrated dry yeast has enough cells to do most beers without a starter and is so cheap that you can just toss in 2 packets in a really big beer.

The main benefit of liquid yeast is that there are so many more, each with its own character, to choose from.

 

[brewprint]

Properly rehydrated dry yeast has enough cells to do most beers without a starter and is so cheap that you can just toss in 2 packets in a really big beer.

The main benefit of liquid yeast is that there are so many more, each with its own character, to choose from.

There are a lot of kits I'd like to do from Midwest that I believe would be considered bigbeers. So would I just add two packs at the start of the fermentation?

The main difference between the liquid and dry yeasts is just the variety?

 

[laughingboysbrew]

Also worth considering that yeast viability decreases with age. I am regularly at the home brew store and have yet to buy yeast manuf in the same month. So, chances are you are pitching 60-75% viable yeast a couples months after. I just brewed an 11 gallon 1.060 batch last night, pitched a 2L starter with 2 smack packs + another smackpack alone. Based on manuf date, it was just barely enough. With a good flocculating yeast, the risk of slightly over pitching outweighs the risk of under pitching.

(I could have stepped the starters up from 1L to 3L, but I paid the extra $12 for my time)

 

[bleme]

There are a lot of kits I'd like to do from Midwest that I believe would be considered bigbeers. So would I just add two packs at the start of the fermentation?



The main difference between the liquid and dry yeasts is just the variety?

Pretty much. US-05 is nearly identical to WLP001 and WY1056.

Check out MrMalty.com for an awesome pitching calculator.

 

[pablosbrewing]

I thought that a smack pack is a yeast starter?

Per Wyeast - No.

https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=16

 

[brewprint]

Thanks for all of this info. I'm going to buy a yeast starter kit in the 2 liter size. I plan to use it on my next big beer (over 6%) with some liquid yeast.

 

[causeimthesquid]

A smackpack is not a starter in the sense that it does not increase cell counts. It isn't some obscure nurient soup either; it's simply yeast metabolizing in anoxic conditions- meaning no cellular reproduction. In other words, if you activated the smackpack and then opened the pouch you would have a starter.

While a smackpack alone is generally under pitching, it should still ferment fine if you aren't screwing up somewhere else.

The biggest issue I saw was your reliance on airlock activity as an indicator of fermentation- there are plenty of other variables so you can't really rely on airlock activity

 

[Queequeg]

I'm gonna ask a stupid question now. But what actually are yeast rafts and how do they differ from krausen?

 

[unionrdr]

Yeast rafts are chunks of the settled yeast cake shaken loose by fermentation & co2 action. They float to the top for a bit & sink again. Accompanied,usually,by left over krausen foam. Can be quite common.

 

[Queequeg]

Thanks, google did not provide, but Unionrdr did

 

[frazier]

Thanks for all of this info. I'm going to buy a yeast starter kit in the 2 liter size. I plan to use it on my next big beer (over 6%) with some liquid yeast.

Your yeast starter equipment can be pretty minimal - I just use a 1-gallon jug, with foil on top. For most beers I make a 2 quart starter; for bigger beers I make 3 quarts. My beers have never told me to spend extra money on flasks or spinners. I'd rather spend that money on ingredients!

Cheers,

 

[Barley_Bob]

Your yeast starter equipment can be pretty minimal - I just use a 1-gallon jug, with foil on top. For most beers I make a 2 quart starter; for bigger beers I make 3 quarts. My beers have never told me to spend extra money on flasks or spinners. I'd rather spend that money on ingredients!

Cheers,

Just when I was about to chime in...

I will only add that I use plastic juice jugs (like grape or apple juice come in). I just loosen the cap on top instead of using foil. I like this because I can tighten the cap and shake to aerate, and I haven't found any drawbacks yet. The only "equipment" for my starters is DME.