eBIAB vs Cooler Mash Tun Setup

[adpostel]

So I recently picked up a 10 gallon electric fired brew kettle with controller. I was originally thinking I just wanted to go electric for the ease of operation and precise control. But now that I added the eKettle to my setup, and I have learned a lot more, I am kind of torn on what I want to do with it. So here is a list of equipment that I currently own, and then I'll explain what I see myself brewing with this, hypothetical, setup.

10 gallon Brew Built e-Kettle 240v 5500w element with PID controller
10 gallon SS Brew Kettle with ball valve
10 gallon SS Kettle no ball valve (has included basket)
10 gallon Igloo Cooler Mash Tun with False Bottom and Ball Valve
2 - steel head 2.0 pumps

and all the rest of the goodies to brew batches.... Refractometer, hydrometer, fermenters, etc. etc....

Now I realize that with whatever way I go, I am ONLY going to be doing 5 gal batches on this system. It's the equipment I already have, and if I ever decide to go to 10 or 15 gallons, I'd be purchasing all new equipment anyway. SO, I am wanting to design the best configured system to make VERY good 5 gal batches.

Now I realize that VERY good beers depend a lot more on what you do AFTER you mash your grains, so that's why I want to design something with what I already have, so any extra dollars can go towards a fermentation chamber of some sort.

So with the equipment that I already have, what would be the recommended setup to do 5 gal all grain batches?

brew hardware false bottom and 400 micron wilserbag and do BIAB
2 vessel setup using cooler mash tun with bag in it
3 vessel setup of some sort

and what are the benefits of each.....

Thanks

 

[Sammy86]

Two vessell systems are known to lose efficiency for what reasons I'm not entirely sure.

If it were me, I would go with EBIAB...the time saved cleaning and the ability to crush grains finer and get better efficiency saves some money on grains and you can still recirculate the wort with your pump.

Personally, I own a Brewzilla 65L (17 gallon "kettle" with 3500 W of power) and wouldn't trade it for the world! Especially now that i've dialed in my numbers it's fantastic!

 

[adpostel]

So I went ahead and bought the false bottom and wilserbag from Brew Hardware.... I'm leaning toward brew in a bag...

My temp probe is is in the middle of the pot, I need to either
a) move it lower
b) get a shorter probe
c) put the temp probe in a T fitting exiting the ball valve.

Any preferences or ideas?

Also, my kettle has a return/whirlpool fitting, will this fitting be sufficient to do a recirculating mash?

 

[adpostel]

Here is the inside of my kettle...

 

[adpostel]

Another pic with element installed...

 

[ChiknNutz]

Understand you will be limited to not-so-big [ABV] beers with a 10G kettle and a full volume mash. Personally I've found my limit to be around 15# or so of grain with a 10G BIAB setup. As such, I recently bought a 15G kettle to accommodate the bigger beers.

 

[adpostel]

So is a full volume mash vs a batch sparge or pour over sparge better?

When I mash in my cooler MT with a bag, I always just pull the bag out and set it on a strainer that fits over my cooler and pour 170 degree water over it to rinse it.... Now I'm reading that I don't even have to use 170 degree water.....

 

[ChiknNutz]

Better is subjective, all things considered. Better in terms of efficiency, sparging is likely better. For overall ease of process, full volume is better. I don't have a mash tun, only the kettle and BIAB bag. So for the easiest BIAB process, there is no sparging at all.

1. Heat full volume of strike water to temp
2. Insert BIAB bag
3. Add grains
4. Mash
5. Remove BIAB with grains
6. Squeeze bag or allow to drain, whatever process you prefer.
7. While draining or squeezing, start heating wort to boil.
8. Boil wort as normal

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Better is subjective, all things considered. Better in terms of efficiency, sparging is likely better. For overall ease of process, full volume is better. I don't have a mash tun, only the kettle and BIAB bag. So for the easiest BIAB process, there is no sparging at all.

1. Heat full volume of strike water to temp
2. Insert BIAB bag
3. Add grains
4. Mash
5. Remove BIAB with grains
6. Squeeze bag or allow to drain, whatever process you prefer.
7. While draining or squeezing, start heating wort to boil.
8. Boil wort as normal

I completely agree with this in that whether you do full volume or sparge will likely end up being personal preference overall. I also agree that full volume no sparge is the simplest. That may interest you. But if you like higher gravity brews and are thus limited in kettle volume and cannot do the full volume mash, since you have some extra kettles, I would suggest you may want to think about using one to sparge with. I have the anvil foundry 10.5gallon version, and I started doing this really out of necessity because I wanted to do a RIS with almost 22lbs of grain, so full volume is no good. Essentially, I just mash as normal with the bag in place and all grains and your mash water, and I hold out 1-2gallons in a separate stock pot for sparge. When its time to sparge, the only thing the second kettle serves for me is to allow for the bag to drain with the bag in place while I pour over the sparge water 1 qt at a time. After I sparge, I immediately hoist the bag vertically to allow the rest of liquid to drain and immediately start pumping the wort back to the anvil. My link below shows how I do it. Given you have several vessels, this is an option for you if you'd like. So even with a 10.5g kettle, Im really not so limited with high gravity beers but it certainly adds more steps compared to full volume mashing.

I would also recommend definitely moving that temp probe somewhere else as I can't imagine it wouldn't rip the bag when you go to pull the bag out. Cheers!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/anvil-foundry-all-grain-brewing-system.666090/post-9053773

 

[kevin58]

Personally, I wouldn't go any smaller than a 15 gallon kettle. As others have stated you will find it difficult to make large OG beers in a 10 gallon kettle.

Also, I agree 100% with @Noob_Brewer about that probe. You are just asking for a ripped bag with that thing sticking out.

 

[adpostel]

Well, I guess the answer to my question is gonna be to mash in my eKettle while recirculating the mash for temp control and then figure out my sparging..... Prolly just use my cooler as an HLT to hold sparge water and then batch sparge to get to my full volume....

 

[audioa84]

My 2 cents:

• For the probe, get a shorter probe/thermowell. I've had to do this on my setup and a shorter probe - preferably one with rounded end - work fine with a BIAB bag.
• I wouldn't use the spin cycle for the recirculating mash. You want the wort to go through the grain bed and it will just go around it if you use this port. However, that port will work great for whirlpooling when you are finished boiling and are cooling if you are using an immersion chiller.
• As for the size of the kettle, I have a 15g kettle and would recommend against going with this size if you mainly do medium gravity or lower 5g batches.
  • If you're going to do a high gravity beer:
    • You can always double mash or possibly add extract to help add gravity if that's your thing.
    • You mention you already have a cooler - you could do a bit of sparging for larger batches.
  • The boil off rate for the wider kettle is somewhat higher (less important - you can factor this in to your water calcs) and if you are using an immersion chiller, the height of the wort may not cover the whole chiller and cost you time and water in cooling(more important).
  • A very minor thing to note is the size difference - a 15g kettle is bigger than a 10g kettle weight wise and physical size wise. While size isn't a factor for most, for some people every little bit makes a difference.
  • Last, you already own a 10g. If you find you do more high gravity brews and don't like the methods mentioned above, you can buy a 15g at that point and have the best of both worlds. It sounds like you plan on investing in the fermentation side of things next and I'd say your money would be better invested there - at least initially.

Good choice on the wilser bag - I own one and love it. These are just my experiences/opinions. Anyone can feel free to disagree as experiences vary between brewers. Prost!

 

[adpostel]

So after some more reading, I can do full volume BIAB mashes in my 10 gallon kettle up to about 10% ABV... For anything more than that, I can always use my 10 gallon cooler mash tun and transfer wort back to the boil kettle and do a 10 minute batch sparge to get to pre boil volume.

After seeing all of the new "All in One" systems, I think I'll add some type of return port so I can do recirculating mashes on my BIAB setup for consistent temp control of my mashes and allow me to do step mashes.

I'll try using a shorter thermowell where it is currently mounted, and I'll use another thermometer to monitor the wort lower in the kettle, as well... If I see to big of a temp differential, I'll install a new thermowell lower in the kettle.

 

[Bobby_M]

A probe that is slightly pressing into the side of the grain bag that close to the kettle wall is not really going to give your system accuracy and stability. It needs to go below the false bottom or in the recirculation path.

 

[RufusBrewer]

For those of us with the limitations that come with a 10 gallon BIAB, a half/repeat mash an option.

I Admit, I have not thought it through.

Do half your boil volume with half your grain bill, then repeat the mash. I am thinking probably will not help your efficiency.

But home brewers are a finicky lot. We want everything to be perfect, ideal, optimum. But if you start with 10 kettle, something will need to adjusted and compromised.

 

[adpostel]

A probe that is slightly pressing into the side of the grain bag that close to the kettle wall is not really going to give your system accuracy and stability. It needs to go below the false bottom or in the recirculation path.

So without wanting to drill another hole in the kettle, should I just add a T fitting with thermowell just after the ball valve? And recirculate when heating strike water AND recirculate mash?

I just received my BrewHardware False Bottom and Wilserbag from you...

Thanks