Early boil hop flavor VS late boil hop flavor

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I was wondering how the time in the boil at which you add hops affect the hop bitterness, if it does at all? I understand that adding early on in the boil can give more bitterness, but how does that flavor (early on in the boil) compare to adding hops much later in the boil?
 
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The 60 IBU bitterness gotten from a 60 minute addition, is no different than a 60 IBU bitterness gotten at a 5 minute addition?
Bitterness is not affected by the time, only flavor/aroma?
 

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60 IBUs is 60 IBUs no matter how long it took you to get there.

bitterness is affected by time,amount of hops, and gravity of the boil.

increase time and hops you get more bitterness. increase gravity you get less bitterness.

decrease boil time gives you more flavor/aroma and less bitterness.
 
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So regardless of when you put hops in the kettle, the bitterness is just as harsh?

I ask because since I am 3 batches into brewing and I am curious if adding hops at various stages of the boil affects the harshness. Not the level of harshness but the harshness itself. Can you soften the impact of the bitterness yet still have the same level of IBUs may have been a better way to ask.

Not that I care, IPAs are at the top of my "must have on hand" list. Just curious.
 

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harshness is a quality of the hops themselves. there is a compound who's name i cant remember right now that attributes to the harshens. some hop varieties have more of this compound than others. right now i cant seem to find the proper passage in my books that give the specifics but i do remember reading it.
 

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So regardless of when you put hops in the kettle, the bitterness is just as harsh?
Interesting read on late hopping here: LINKY

Some quotes regarding bittering here: "Moving hops to late in the boil not only reinforces the huge hop flavor and aroma, but some brewers suggest it also results in a much smoother, less harsh bitterness.

Greg Noonan in New Brewing Lager Beer writes, “Beers that are heavily hopped in the beginning of the boil exhibit a cleaner krausen fermentation head and are more stable than beers hopped later, but the hop bitterness will be coarser and less pleasant.”

Several homebrewers have reported that after switching a recipe to all late hops, they experienced this effect. David Sousa reports, “The bitterness seemed more rounded and less angular than a regularly bittered beer."
 

Dewangski1

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I believe the harshness comes from the alpha acids? And that these acids need to isomerize to impart a bitter flavor. Their isomerization is both time and heat dependent, thus why longer amounts of time in a boil would give off more bitterness as the hops alpha acids are able to completely isomerize in 60 minutes vs 40, 20 and so on.

Keep in mind though that when you ask about bitterness and talk of IBUs (international bitterness units) you are talking about the same things as posted above

"60 IBUs is 60 IBUs no matter how long it took you to get there."

If you want to lessen bitterness, either change your hop variety (lower AAU) or add less hops, either way you would be lowering your IBUs.
 

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no, i don't think its the alpha acids. alpha acids definitely give you bitterness. but the compound i cant remember the name of makes it "harsh". that much i remember, the compound starts with a "C" i think. when i get a chance i'll do some reading and see if i can find the name of the compound and let you guys know.
 

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Don't forget that to get the same 60IBUs from a late addition, you're gonna be using some insane amounts of hops. For example, to get 60 IBUs from a 60min addition of Magnum (12.1%AA), it takes just shy of 1 ounce (5 gallon boil, Rager formula). To get those same 60 IBUs from a 5min addition, you would need 5.15 ounces. That makes for an expensive smooth bitterness.

You may want to read up on First Wort Hopping, however. Those who practice it say that it produces a smoother, less harsh bitterness.
 

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Don't forget that to get the same 60IBUs from a late addition, you're gonna be using some insane amounts of hops. For example, to get 60 IBUs from a 60min addition of Magnum (12.1%AA), it takes just shy of 1 ounce (5 gallon boil, Rager formula). To get those same 60 IBUs from a 5min addition, you would need 5.15 ounces. That makes for an expensive smooth bitterness.

You may want to read up on First Wort Hopping, however. Those who practice it say that it produces a smoother, less harsh bitterness.
good point
 

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while this is an old thread, i feel i need to reply in someway. there are many factors that can contribute to your hops in the boil whether it be early additions, late additions, cohumulone, alpha acids, etc. in any case, i would never compare the bittness level of say 60ibus w/ a 60 addition to a 60ibu with a 5 min addition. we have done several tests in the matter of bitterness, flavor, and aroma additions with highly scaled additions at each time. throwing in different hops varieties w/ different oil content can play a huge part as well. alpha acids apart, 2oz of chinook at 60 is not the same as 2oz of simcoe at 60 IMO. without throwing too much controversy on this topic in the mix, i believe the key to make a great IPA (thats what we are talking about, right?) would be using a blend of high cohumulone and low cohumulone hops at 60 (or just a smaller amount of high) and a ton of low co hops at 20-knockout. just my IMO...
 

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while this is an old thread, i feel i need to reply in someway. there are many factors that can contribute to your hops in the boil whether it be early additions, late additions, cohumulone, alpha acids, etc. in any case, i would never compare the bittness level of say 60ibus w/ a 60 addition to a 60ibu with a 5 min addition. we have done several tests in the matter of bitterness, flavor, and aroma additions with highly scaled additions at each time. throwing in different hops varieties w/ different oil content can play a huge part as well. alpha acids apart, 2oz of chinook at 60 is not the same as 2oz of simcoe at 60 IMO. without throwing too much controversy on this topic in the mix, i believe the key to make a great IPA (thats what we are talking about, right?) would be using a blend of high cohumulone and low cohumulone hops at 60 (or just a smaller amount of high) and a ton of low co hops at 20-knockout. just my IMO...
Interesting. I always thought that if you throw 1 oz of 14% hops in at 60, it would be the same as 2 oz of 7% at 60. I have always heard, but never did an actual trial, that if you boil hops for 60 minutes or longer, you really get nothing but the bittering. Hence, I'll use magnum or any other high acid hops at the start of the boil, without worrying if it is the one the recipe really calls for.
 

zodiak3000

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Interesting. I always thought that if you throw 1 oz of 14% hops in at 60, it would be the same as 2 oz of 7% at 60. I have always heard, but never did an actual trial, that if you boil hops for 60 minutes or longer, you really get nothing but the bittering. Hence, I'll use magnum or any other high acid hops at the start of the boil, without worrying if it is the one the recipe really calls for.
your right, anything over 60 is really just bittering. sometimes though certain varieties of hops at 60 or 90 can carry over into the final product due to the oil content and cohumulone. magnum is low cohumulone and a really simple hop (not much distinct flavor and aroma), hence it wouldnt be noticible. chinook, summit, warrior, and some others can be somewhat noticeable. high cohumulone for bittering IMO can be somewhat harsh compared to a low cohumulone hops. this can be debatable, but give it a try. something like a smash of just 2row and all chinook for bittering, and just 2row and all simcoe for bittering.
 
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