E-HERMS Controller in 2 Stage Build

[fatlou30]

Hello.
I have what I believe to be a unique request. I am on my way to building a system like P-J has diagrammed, and theelectricbrewery has given great detail on.

The problem is I am trying to do this on a budget, in stages. This allows me to move my entire brew operation from my kitchen, to a room in my basement with ventilation. My thoughts are this:


Phase I: (All-Grain Brew Kettle with expansion)
I have 30a GFCI box installed and 4 wire dryer outlet.
Build controller that has 1 pid, 1 timer, 1 pump, 1 temp probe and hookup for 5500w element, on/off toggles, light indicators and an alarm.
Phase 1 Brew equipment: 2 10 gallon coolers, 1 15 gallon SS Kettle.

This allows me to not start HERMS, but continue to heat the water in my boil kettle to a temp, and pump to my Mash Tun (cooler until I go HERMS). While mashing I can add sparge water back in boil kettle, bring to temp and pump into HLT for fly sparging when ready. Once done, wort is in Boil Kettle (gravity fed) and I can boil, but control boil (not just on/off).

Wiring diagram needed.....

Phase II: (Move to E-HERMS)
Add on to existing control box (400x400x200) in phase 1:
Add pump inlet, PID, temp probe, temp probe, 5500w element.
Get rid of cooler, get 2 additional kettles, make connections as in many of the completed forums on here.
Phase II brew equipment: 3 Stainless steel kettles. All 20 gallon for 10 gallon batches. Selling other equipment to friend getting into brewing.

Wiring diagram needed for phase 2, added on from phase 1.

This allows me to brew indoors without initially going to a complete E-HERMS system. This is very similar to the E-BIAB controllers on the forums, but I think this is unique as I want to start where E-BIAB ends, and eventually move to E-HERMS. I almost went down the path of creating 1 control box, and then another connected with conduit, but I think that would create too much waste in duplication (ssr's, heatsinks, etc).

As usual, I appreciate all recommendations, comments and help. You're all the best!

Warm Regards,
David (fatlou30)

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

First, as this is your first post on HBT, let me say "welcome"!

Have you had a chance to look around and find some of the already documented builds that might be similar or identical to yours? I'm pretty certain that there are multiple signle-PID/element builds and diagrams on the board that might be helpful for you and would meet your "wiring diagram needed" request. You might find you're best off looking for a wiring diagram and layout that meets your Phase II plan, and then eliminating all the components you won't have in Phase I - then when you build it you know everything will fit and how all the parts interact so you're not duplicating effort.

What you describe in Phase II has definitely been done before so I don't think you'd have trouble finding it. Get the end state and we can help you work back to the bare minimum for Phase I.

Good luck, and welcome again.
-Kevin

 

[fatlou30]

---Kevin
Thanks so much for the reply and the warm welcome.
I have been finding outstanding diagrams here on HBT. The site has been incredible!

I have not seen many people do this in stages, but I think I have enough info, but was bouncing the idea around to see if many have done this before.

I like the idea of starting from KAL's or P-J's designs and just eliminating what isn't needed for phase 2. I just get worried that I would be wiring it correctly, when I start eliminating things. With more thought, I am sure I can overcome it, just curious if it has been documented before.

Thanks again Kevin!
Cheers,
David

 

[kal]

Add on to existing control box (400x400x200) in phase 1:
Add pump inlet, PID, temp probe, temp probe, 5500w element.

Adding something to a control panel that has already been punched, primed, painted, and wired is extremely difficult to do. Whenever you cut a new hole you send bits of metal flying everywhere. Stuff already installed is also in the way and unless you designed everything with the room to begin with right from the start, you may not have enough room to add what you want.

The other issue is that you have to learn the first setup, but then shortly after start working on changing it and have to relearn the second setup.

If you do build in stages, I would suggest building the control panel to serve your end stage right from the start. You may have to save up a while longer but it'll be a lot easier to work on.

Good luck!

Kal

 

[fatlou30]

Thanks Kal.
I appreciate the suggestions and cautions. Perhaps my idea to build 2 smaller control panels and tie them in with conduit (maybe only 1 or 2 inches) isn't such a bad idea? Maybe a BK Controller and a HLT/Mash Controller. That way I can still move downstairs this year! BTW, I am 100% buying your elements (assembled) when ready!

A 2 controller solutions still gives me the ability to achieve a stepped goal early, but cost me only a little more with the additional costs of a box, and maybe some extra DIN's, another SRR/heatsink, wire, etc? This is where I keep falling back to in the phases. Haven't seen a 2 box BK&HLT/Mash option....perhaps for a reason!

The job boxes are easy enough to find, it's just tying them all together correctly.

I bet if I printed out your (KAL's) completed boxes and just divided out the control panel visually from the front I could extend the wires. Of course I would have to rewire anything sharing components in each box....ugh!!!!

As usual, your considerations and information is greatly appreciated!

 

[kal]

Perhaps my idea to build 2 smaller control panels and tie them in with conduit (maybe only 1 or 2 inches) isn't such a bad idea?

It's possible but it'll cost you more in the long run to do it this way and would probably look a bit odd, may not hold together properly, and so forth. (Though if you wall mount both it would probably be fine).

I would really try to get everything the way you want it right from the start. It'll be simpler, cost you less in the long run.

Kal

 

[Bensiff]

It's possible but it'll cost you more in the long run to do it this way and would probably look a bit odd, may not hold together properly, and so forth. (Though if you wall mount both it would probably be fine).

I would really try to get everything the way you want it right from the start. It'll be simpler, cost you less in the long run.

Kal

I can't agree more. One thing I have learned over the years, not just in brewing, is that if you cut corners you inevitably regret the decision and will find yourself reworking things to what you actually wanted when you have the time and money and that ends up costing a lot more time and money than doing it right in the first place.

 

[cncmoose]

I agree with Kal. The following is just my opinion and how I would do it.

Punch all of the CP holes that you are going to need from the get go. The unused holes can be plugged until needed. Trying to punch new holes after assembly would be a bear and risk damage and metal slivers where they don;t belong. But if you only punch what you need to start, I would remove the installed components so I could punch the added holes in a bare panel then re-assemble.

 

[fatlou30]

Thanks folks!
With your help, I think I have decided a direction.
I am going to still do this build in stages, but modify my stages.
After pricing out my phases to do the controller in 2 steps, it didn't make sense. For a few extra bucks, I can just complete the controller by adding another PID, some toggles and light indicators.

The stages have shifted to the following:
Stage 1:
Build full up Kal Clone (or purchase from him)
Use 15 gal, SS BK and 2 10 gal coolers as I have in All-Grain setup, with following mods:
Use 1 Element, 1 pump, 1 temp probe all with the new controller.
Use BK to heat strike water, and pump into MT (cooler).
Mash in normal.
Use BK to heat sparge water and pump into HLT (cooler).
Mash and sparge as I have in cooler setup.
Pump (or gravity) back into BK, boil and get into primary.

Stage 2:
Buy 2 new kettles, fittings, pump, HLT coil, etc etc. and fully use the power of the Kal inspired controller and turn this into a legit E-HERMS setup.

This allows me to not compromise on the controller, and hold off on the purchase of 2 additional kettles, an additional pump, element, probes, HLT Coil, fittings, etc. etc. It also allows me to move the operation into the basement where I have been remodeling for this adventure in a cost effective way (wife approved way).

It also gets me out of the kitchen, and no more moving equipment up and down stairs all day during brew day.

As always, the advise and words of caution have been very helpful, and to that I am grateful. My goal is to photo-document the build and update the thread as it gets going.

---David

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Glad you came up with that decision - less work, less cost, and overall less headache in the long run then the original plan. Good luck on your build, keep us updated!