E-Herms Build 50 amp

[stickyfinger]

I just pulled up Kal's wiring diagram and compared it to the schematic on the octal relay he used and my initial diagram is essentially the same. His octal relay has the terminal numbers arranged differently.

Here's Kal's description: "The safe start interlock relay only receives power when the POWER KEY switch is set to ON and all three other switches are set to OFF. Once the interlock relay receives power and latches, it feeds into the POWER IN RELAY coil to turn on the rest of the control panel. Once latched, power for the interlock relay is then also drawn directly from the POWER KEY switch through one of the poles in the interlock relay that is now closed. This keeps the interlock relay coil energized and allows the other three switches to be turned ON or OFF as required without turning off the control panel while in use or affecting the interlock capability. If power to the panel is cut, the interlock relay releases and the three switches must be set to OFF before the panel may be powered on again."

So, I think the power from the key switch to terminal 5 is essentially what stays latched when the pump/element switches are turned off and on, keeping power going to the main contactor. It only becomes unlatched when the key switch is turned off. I think

I am just looking at this interlock relay and have never heard of one before (I'm new to control panels.) You want one of these interlock relays in the panel so that you can't provide power to the panel without the 2 pump and 2 heating element "on" switches being in the "off" or open position, right? Is this an added safety feature for the case when you have 1) "on" switches that are not illuminated OR 2) illuminated switches in which the light in the switch has burned out?

 

[Bensiff]

Set it up so that you cannot turn the main power on if the pumps or elements are switched on. The elements are particularly important because they will be destroyed quickly if dry fired. Pumps are pretty forgiving and the loud noise makes it obvious they are on so its easy to correct quickly. So, it's not so much a safety feature in this use as it is an equipment protection feature.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Set it up so that you cannot turn the main power on if the pumps or elements are switched on. The elements are particularly important because they will be destroyed quickly if dry fired. Pumps are pretty forgiving and the loud noise makes it obvious they are on so its easy to correct quickly. So, it's not so much a safety feature in this use as it is an equipment protection feature.

I'm a pretty forgetful guy, but I've never turned on my panel without checking to see that all switches for elements and pumps are off before hitting the main power switch. And I have float switches that would prevent my elements from frying even if I did turn my panel on with the element switches on.

Is there anyone on here that has actually turned on their control panel without checking to see if their element switches were off first? Anyone?

I find an interlock switch to be a waste of time and money.

 

[cheez]

I'm glad I put mine in. I don't have to worry about checking switches when I turn the panel on. IIRC, the interlock was fairly inexpensive.

 

[stickyfinger]

I thought the interlock seemed pretty cool and all it would cost for me would be a little extra wire and whatever is required on the element and pump switches. Did it require that you add on blocks to those switches? That's probably only a few bucks per block I would think. I want to use illuminated power switches for my elements and pumps, and I also will have an "element on" indicator light for the elements, so I don't think I need it, but it's kind of a cool feature. I need an "on" switch or button for the panel anyway. I was more just trying to understand what it does, and now that is crystal clear. It would be essential on a control panel that is used in some process that has a lot of moving parts where someone could get crushed or maimed!!!

 

[LandoLincoln]

It would be essential on a control panel that is used in some process that has a lot of moving parts where someone could get crushed or maimed!!!

Very true. But unless you've got a really funky Rube Goldberg type of brew setup, then this would not apply.

 

[stickyfinger]

Doesn't YOUR control panel monitor grain mill crush rate and adjust accordingly? Mine will be so much better than yours...

 

[LandoLincoln]

Doesn't YOUR control panel monitor grain mill crush rate and adjust accordingly? Mine will be so much better than yours...

I have a laser-powered grain-splitter. No moving parts.

 

[stickyfinger]

Oh, ok, no interlock needed on a LASER!!!!!! That's way safer than a grain mill!!! You have to be careful not to scorch your husks that way too.

 

[Bensiff]

I thought the interlock seemed pretty cool and all it would cost for me would be a little extra wire and whatever is required on the element and pump switches. Did it require that you add on blocks to those switches? That's probably only a few bucks per block I would think. I want to use illuminated power switches for my elements and pumps, and I also will have an "element on" indicator light for the elements, so I don't think I need it, but it's kind of a cool feature. I need an "on" switch or button for the panel anyway. I was more just trying to understand what it does, and now that is crystal clear. It would be essential on a control panel that is used in some process that has a lot of moving parts where someone could get crushed or maimed!!!

No it's not necessary but it is inexpensive and pretty easy to install. You can burn out an element incredibly fast, so for me, even though I have an indicator light, the moment of wtf why won't this thing go on is much better than looking at the indicator light, processing the abnormality and saying oh crap the element is hot and by then it's too late.

 

[stickyfinger]

wow, you can burn out the element in just a few seconds? that definitely makes the interconnect more appealing.

 

[Bensiff]

I don't know the exact time. It would depend on design and watt density; but, they are not designed for dry fires. The only dry fire I have ever had was when the HLT level got too low on me. My element was fine; but, I'm considering putting in a float valve to keep it from happening again because I don't want to buy and silicone up another element over a moments inattention.

 

[stickyfinger]

Why not just shut off the heat while sparging?

 

[Bensiff]

Why not just shut off the heat while sparging?

That is that inattention thing.

 

[Dennis]

Hey Cheez,
I'm really want to build a 50amp control panel and this build seems pretty sweet. Now that you've been running it for a couple years, what are your thoughts on it. I was also wondering if you might be able to give a walk through or even post a video walk-through somewhere. There are so little vids or even detailed walk-throughs on projects like this. Thanks
Dennis

 

[cheez]

Hey Cheez,
I'm really want to build a 50amp control panel and this build seems pretty sweet. Now that you've been running it for a couple years, what are your thoughts on it. I was also wondering if you might be able to give a walk through or even post a video walk-through somewhere. There are so little vids or even detailed walk-throughs on projects like this. Thanks
Dennis

I still really enjoy it. The only somewhat of an issue is that it can take 15 minutes for the mash temperature to change a few degrees if I miss my strike and target temperatures. By that time half of the conversion has taken place at the wrong temp. I've gotten it fairly dialed in where I usually only miss my target by 1 or 2 degrees. Once it's on target, the controller maintains it perfectly.

One of my Chugger pumps has been crapping out and I haven't had a chance to figure out why. It will be pumping along just fine and then it sounds like it's spinning with no fluids in the head. I'll turn it off, back on, and it will continue to pump for 2 seconds or 1 hour. Pretty hit or miss. I just ordered a back up pump.

I am very glad I went with 50 amps. During the boil I usually heat up some water in my HLT to use for cleaning or I'll pre-heat water for a 2nd batch. I feel like I would have been way too limited with a 30 amp setup. The downside is it cost quite a bit more but, hey, what's another few hundred bucks

I am also glad I installed the interlock, especially with having kids around... I also like having two timers. I use one for the mash and the other for the boil. It's more useful when doing back to back brews.

Overall, I don't think I would change anything!

I basically followed Kal's very informative website http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ along with a few threads on HBT.

 

[Shockerengr]

One of my Chugger pumps has been crapping out and I haven't had a chance to figure out why. It will be pumping along just fine and then it sounds like it's spinning with no fluids in the head. I'll turn it off, back on, and it will continue to pump for 2 seconds or 1 hour. Pretty hit or miss. I just ordered a back up pump.

Have you oiled it recently? When mine starts acting up like that it's a reminder to get the machine oil out after the brew finishes.

 

[cheez]

Have you oiled it recently? When mine starts acting up like that it's a reminder to get the machine oil out after the brew finishes.

It's been probably a year so I need to do that - thanks for the reminder. I am also going to put some keg lube on the shaft as suggested by Bobby in another thread.

 

[augiedoggy]

Why not just shut off the heat while sparging?

Just wanted to add that for about $15 in hardware I was able to wire up a stainless float switch in my HLT which automatically shuts off the element once the water level reaches the top of the element... Its works well, For $10 I added a flow switch to my rims which prevents it from firing when there is no flow through it THIS one has actually save me from a mess a few times since I often forget to turn my rims off for some reason.

 

[BigFloppy]

augie -> need the link to flow switch you mentioned

 

[Shockerengr]

augie -> need the link to flow switch you mentioned

seconded

 

[LandoLincoln]

seconded

The cheaper version which doesn't have a quick disconnect
The more expensive version which has a quick disconnect and cable

I have the cheaper version. I bought it before they offered the more expensive version. I wish I had the more expensive version.

 

[BigFloppy]

Lando... FLOW switch not float switch

 

[LandoLincoln]

Lando... FLOW switch not float switch

Oops.