Dusseldorf Alt Cold Conditioning- How to Bottle Carbonate?

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micraftbeer

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I've made a Dusseldorf Alt all-grain recipe that I made before that turned out great. Last time I made it, I followed a recipe/process suggestion from a BYO magazine article online that after fermenting cool (55 - 60F), I gradually dropped the temperature until finally resting at near freezing. This cold lagering process went on for about 4-6 weeks. The beer turned out amazing, just like the fresh stuff I had in Dusseldorf.

My problem now is that it was so good, I want to bottle it so I can share it. But I'm sure with this long cool/cold process, most of my yeast is going to drop out, so bottle fermenting will be a challenge. But if I bottle before I start the long chill, it seems like it would be contrary to this process that worked so well for me as I let it set for a couple weeks at around 70F to build carbonation.

Anyone have any suggestions, or have luck bottle carbonating something that goes through a cold fermentation process?
 

Queequeg

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Add a small amount of bottle conditioning yeast. Let them carb, crash again in the bottle. Or carb I the keg a delivery then fill bottles with a counter pressure filler
 

mblanks2

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I've made a Dusseldorf Alt all-grain recipe that I made before that turned out great. Last time I made it, I followed a recipe/process suggestion from a BYO magazine article online that after fermenting cool (55 - 60F), I gradually dropped the temperature until finally resting at near freezing. This cold lagering process went on for about 4-6 weeks. The beer turned out amazing, just like the fresh stuff I had in Dusseldorf.

My problem now is that it was so good, I want to bottle it so I can share it. But I'm sure with this long cool/cold process, most of my yeast is going to drop out, so bottle fermenting will be a challenge. But if I bottle before I start the long chill, it seems like it would be contrary to this process that worked so well for me as I let it set for a couple weeks at around 70F to build carbonation.

Anyone have any suggestions, or have luck bottle carbonating something that goes through a cold fermentation process?

You shouldn't have any issue bottle conditioning this as there should still be sufficient yeast in suspension to carbonate.
 

sky4meplease

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I would follow the recipe the way you did it the first time and when it's DONE lagering bottle it with bottle conditioning yeast (S-33, CBC-1, F2) slowly warm it to 65-70 degrees for three weeks and then cellar.
I'm curious to hear what method you choose and the outcome.
 

Queequeg

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I'm not convinced about there being enough yeast I suspension after a cold crash. Even after just a weeks cold crash I have had bottles take around 12 weeks to carbonated. A small amount of bottling yeast is good insurance imo
 

sky4meplease

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I'm not convinced about there being enough yeast I suspension after a cold crash. Even after just a weeks cold crash I have had bottles take around 12 weeks to carbonated. A small amount of bottling yeast is good insurance imo


Choose your words wisely. I have been all but burned at the stake for speaking of the absence of yeast at bottling time hindering carbonation.
 

FarmerTed

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I just bottled a Schwarz bier that I lagered at ~34 F for 10 weeks. It carb'd up fine in 10 days at room temperature. I think you'll be fine with the alt beer, but if you're really worried a small amount of additional yeast should get the job done.
 

Revvy

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I'm not convinced about there being enough yeast I suspension after a cold crash. Even after just a weeks cold crash I have had bottles take around 12 weeks to carbonated. A small amount of bottling yeast is good insurance imo

But if there weren't enough yeast to do their job, then they wouldn't have carbonated would they? ;)

Yes it doesn't hurt to add, BUT saying there's not enough yeast and then saying the beer DID ULTIMATELY CARB, kind of defeats your entire "argument" doesn't it?

Other people who cold crash, like me, have their beers carb up just fine in three weeks after cold crashing, so maybe there's something else at play? Gravity of beer, carb temp etc?

Me I usually let the beer warm back up after crashing, which mean the yeast won't be sluggish or hibernating when I bottle. And moving it out of wherever I'm crashing usually bring a bit more yeast up out of the floor, but I never added except in the highest grav beers any yeast after crashing.

You're going from BILLIONS to MILLIONS of yeast when you crash, it doesn't take much at all to carb up a batch or beer.
 

yeastylad

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I made an Alt a while back carbed it in a keg (hear me out) and started drinking it fresh, and it wasn't where it I wanted it to be. Some banana esters etc that weren't to style. After holding cold in the keg for 8 weeks, it was exactly where it needed to be. Clean, crisp, good bitterness and malt balance. So maybe bottle carb the beer, THEN cold condition? Im not sure if that's how it's done traditionally or not, but it definitely worked for me.
 

Revvy

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I made an Alt a while back carbed it in a keg (hear me out) and started drinking it fresh, and it wasn't where it I wanted it to be. Some banana esters etc that weren't to style. After holding cold in the keg for 8 weeks, it was exactly where it needed to be. Clean, crisp, good bitterness and malt balance. So maybe bottle carb the beer, THEN cold condition? Im not sure if that's how it's done traditionally or not, but it definitely worked for me.

A few years ago in the MR Wizard column in BYO magazine that a viable option for lagering was in the bottle. And people have cold conditioned ales in the bottle after cabing as well, that's one of the ways to get rid of chill haze, extended cold in the fridge after letting the beers carb up naturally.
 

Denny

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There is pokenty of yeast left.
I've made a Dusseldorf Alt all-grain recipe that I made before that turned out great. Last time I made it, I followed a recipe/process suggestion from a BYO magazine article online that after fermenting cool (55 - 60F), I gradually dropped the temperature until finally resting at near freezing. This cold lagering process went on for about 4-6 weeks. The beer turned out amazing, just like the fresh stuff I had in Dusseldorf.

My problem now is that it was so good, I want to bottle it so I can share it. But I'm sure with this long cool/cold process, most of my yeast is going to drop out, so bottle fermenting will be a challenge. But if I bottle before I start the long chill, it seems like it would be contrary to this process that worked so well for me as I let it set for a couple weeks at around 70F to build carbonation.

Anyone have any suggestions, or have luck bottle carbonating something that goes through a cold fermentation process?

There is plenty of yeast left to carb it. Look at it under a microscope and you'd be amazed.
 

Denny

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But if there weren't enough yeast to do their job, then they wouldn't have carbonated would they? ;)

Yes it doesn't hurt to add, BUT saying there's not enough yeast and then saying the beer DID ULTIMATELY CARB, kind of defeats your entire "argument" doesn't it?

Other people who cold crash, like me, have their beers carb up just fine in three weeks after cold crashing, so maybe there's something else at play? Gravity of beer, carb temp etc?

Me I usually let the beer warm back up after crashing, which mean the yeast won't be sluggish or hibernating when I bottle. And moving it out of wherever I'm crashing usually bring a bit more yeast up out of the floor, but I never added except in the highest grav beers any yeast after crashing.

You're going from BILLIONS to MILLIONS of yeast when you crash, it doesn't take much at all to carb up a batch or beer.

THIS^^^^ is the truth.
 

sky4meplease

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There is plenty of yeast left to carb it. Look at it under a microscope and you'd be amazed.


I have done this and routinely come up considerably short on yeast so I add at bottling time.
My understanding is 1 million cells per milliliter is required to "properly carbonate beer".
Plus I don't always want the yeast I fermented with in my bottles. Highly flocculant yeast clump up and won't stick to the bottles and wind up in my glass.
Bottle conditioning yeast leaves a powdery haze in the bottle and sticks like glue to the bottom which makes for a clean pour into the glass.
That being said I have never had a batch not carbonate even when I didn't add yeast at bottling time though I had my fair share of slow carbers.
 

Queequeg

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But if there weren't enough yeast to do their job, then they wouldn't have carbonated would they? ;)

Yes it doesn't hurt to add, BUT saying there's not enough yeast and then saying the beer DID ULTIMATELY CARB, kind of defeats your entire "argument" doesn't it?

Other people who cold crash, like me, have their beers carb up just fine in three weeks after cold crashing, so maybe there's something else at play? Gravity of beer, carb temp etc?

Me I usually let the beer warm back up after crashing, which mean the yeast won't be sluggish or hibernating when I bottle. And moving it out of wherever I'm crashing usually bring a bit more yeast up out of the floor, but I never added except in the highest grav beers any yeast after crashing.

You're going from BILLIONS to MILLIONS of yeast when you crash, it doesn't take much at all to carb up a batch or beer.

It was an IPA, so 12 weeks in the bottle meant I missed that golden window of hop freshness.

I think temp and time in the cold crash are what makes the difference, this was just a few degrees above freezing and for 7 days. The beer was absolutely crystal but it took a long time to carb up.

Also its worth noting that normally my beers carb completely within 10 days, not the standard mantra of 21 you often read on the forum.
 
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micraftbeer

micraftbeer

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Just an update. I did a combination of the suggestions here. This beer is brutal for an impatient guy like me... Here's the key dates/steps of things:

1. Brew day, then let ferment at 61-63F for 26 days.
2. Cooled to 55F, then gradually down to 50F for 10 days.
3. Bottled half of it and put it in 70F spot for 19 days.
4. Starting today, put in 34F refrigerator to cold condition a couple of weeks.

I'll update again after to see how it turned out in bottle.
 

Queequeg

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But if there weren't enough yeast to do their job, then they wouldn't have carbonated would they? ;)

Yes it doesn't hurt to add, BUT saying there's not enough yeast and then saying the beer DID ULTIMATELY CARB, kind of defeats your entire "argument" doesn't it?

Other people who cold crash, like me, have their beers carb up just fine in three weeks after cold crashing, so maybe there's something else at play? Gravity of beer, carb temp etc?

Me I usually let the beer warm back up after crashing, which mean the yeast won't be sluggish or hibernating when I bottle. And moving it out of wherever I'm crashing usually bring a bit more yeast up out of the floor, but I never added except in the highest grav beers any yeast after crashing.

You're going from BILLIONS to MILLIONS of yeast when you crash, it doesn't take much at all to carb up a batch or beer.

My experience is the opposite to the mantra on this forum.

The last two beers i crashed at 3°C for 48 hours with 1/2 tsp gelatin , warmed before bottling where extremely slow to carbonate.

I want to drink my beers fresh, so saying the eventually carbonate is moot.
 

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