Dunkelweizen

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Chairman Cheyco

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Searched around a it and can't seem to find one around here.

Does anyone have a traditional Dunkelweizen recipe?

I'm thinking:

50/50 Vienna malt, wheat malt mixture to about 1.054og mash at 152
with about 14 IBUs of hallertau, without any aroma/flavor editions

3068 for yeast.

Any thoughts? Do I need to add chocolate malt for color?
 
would this make it a non traditional recipe?


Weyermann Chocolate Wheat

413° L. Malted wheat that has been steeped and roasted to create a very dark color. Adds deep color and roasted character. Use 1 to 5% for altbier, dunkelweizen, stout and porter.

Weyermann Caramel Wheat

45.5° L. Malted wheat that has been steeped and kilned to create a caramel malt. Emphasizes wheat aroma and flavor and adds color; use up to 15% for dunkelweizen and hefeweizen.
 
I've got one sitting in primary now that tastes amazing. It's pretty close to BJCP I think (though I don't have much experience matching styles).

Batch: 23L
3KG Wheat
2.5KG Munich
0.23KG Chocolate
14IBU Hallertauer (60 minutes, no flavour or aroma)
Wyeast 3068

Mashed at 153F for 60M
 
the_bird said:
If you're worried about color, what about using like a Carafa III? Get some color without the roastiness of chocolate malt.


I have thought of that, 'bird, but I'd have to order it, and I want to brew this in the next few days.

bradsul, that looks like an awesome recipe!
 
fyi, this was an extract version I did like 6mo ago...

Dunkelweizen

3lbs Light Malt Extract
3lbs Wheat Extract
1.75lbs Carafa - Dehusked
2oz Hall Hersbrucker Hops
1oz Tettnang Hops
1 tube White Labs Hefewiezen Yeast WLP300
3/4 cup Corn Sugar


Procedure
• Place one bag of Carafa in 2 gallons of water and bring to 160°F
• Steep for 20 minutes – stirring regularly and vigorously
• Pull out grain bag – sparge with 170° water optional
• Bring water to a boil
• Turn off the heat, add malt extract and and return to boil for one hour
• Add Tettnang Hops and 1oz Hall hops at 60 minutes
• Add 1oz Hall Hops at 10 minutes
 
Dude said:
Is freaking dunkelweizen the same thing as weizenbock?

IIRC

for a Dunkel instead of a Hefe, replace the Pilsner with Vienna or Munich and darken it up a bit with chocolate.


weizenbocks kick my ass, but I can drink Dunkels all day
 
Dude said:
Is freaking dunkelweizen the same thing as weizenbock?

this is how I've come to understand it:

dunkelweizen is essentially a dark hefeweizen, and is made with traditional hefe-type yeast.

weizenbock is a bock (lager, most of the time) made with wheat malt.

Schneider confuses this by calling Aventinus a "wheat doppelbock", even though it is fermented with ale (hefe) yeast.
 
Evan! said:
this is how I've come to understand it:

dunkelweizen is essentially a dark hefeweizen, and is made with traditional hefe-type yeast.

weizenbock is a bock (lager, most of the time) made with wheat malt.

Schneider confuses this by calling Aventinus a "wheat doppelbock", even though it is fermented with ale (hefe) yeast.
It is confusing! Schneider actually invented Weizenbock with Aventinus...it's definitely a wheat beer made with a Hefeweizen ale yeast. Sometimes lager yeasts are used for bottle conditioning, but don't contribute significantly to the fermentation characteristics.

In the case of Weizenbock the bock or doppelbock designation is only used to indicate that it is a higher abv beer, not that it is fermented with a bock or other lager yeast. Grab an Aventinus and you'll taste that it is clearly fermented with a Hefeweizen strain.

There is some misinformation out there, though.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
It is confusing! Schneider actually invented Weizenbock with Aventinus...it's definitely a wheat beer made with a Hefeweizen ale yeast. Sometimes lager yeasts are used for bottle conditioning, but don't contribute significantly to the fermentation characteristics.

In the case of Weizenbock the bock or doppelbock designation is only used to indicate that it is a higher abv beer, not that it is fermented with a bock or other lager yeast. Grab an Aventinus and you'll taste that it is clearly fermented with a Hefeweizen strain.

There is some misinformation out there, though.

So what you are saying is they are the same?
 
Dude said:
So what you are saying is they are the same?
I'm saying Schneider Aventinus == Weizenbock == wheat doppelbock and that it's an ale.

Edit: now I understand the question. I believe technically that a Dunkelweizen is a normal strength darkish wheat beer while a Weizenbock is high abv, ~7-8%. The grists may be similar in terms of malts used and %'s, but I'm not sure.
 
Operation Dunkelweizen is in full-swing now...

Last night I had Erdinger Dunkelweiss: It was very dark, I'd say almost black. The taste was almost completely lacking the banana/clovieness, of a weiss. There was a very slight roasty edge, though there was no harshness to it. Highly carbed, pretty good, but not what I'm after.

Right now I'm drinking Edelweiss Dunkel and Konig Ludwig Weiss in a side by side :)drunk: :rockin:)

This Dunkel is more of a copper color as opposed to the black of the Erdinger. Taste is much closer to that of a traditional Weiss with lots of banana and all that other good stuff. When compared to the baseline weiss, it's a much fuller, and richer beer but maintains the crispness of a heffe. This is what I'm after!

I think for my first attempt, I'm going to use 50/50 munich/wheat for the grist, and bitter with Hallertau to 14IBUs

Comments?

How about mash schedules?
 
Sounds excellent! I had that same original plan for mine but I added the chocolate because I could only get the lighter munich and wanted a slightly darker colour (mine calculated out to 18SRM with the chocolate).

If you have the capability I've been reading that a step mash with a rest at 122F is good for high wheat content grain bills. I don't have that capability personally so I just mashed at 153F for 60 minutes; I wanted a slightly maltier tone to mine but still have the yeast flavour dominent. If you wanted it nice and crisp you might want to try a lower temp., maybe 151F or even 150F? Take that with a grain of salt though; I'm by no means an expert. :)
 
bradsul said:
Sounds excellent! I had that same original plan for mine but I added the chocolate because I could only get the lighter munich and wanted a slightly darker colour (mine calculated out to 18SRM with the chocolate).


Interesting, I think I'm looking for about 18 for this one, so I'll see where it takes me without the chocolate. I can see getting there eventually however, as I think a little roast might to a dunkel good!

I may do a step mash, I may even do a decoction. I'll do the kind that Dude does. He says it's not decocting, so it's not. ;)
 
This is my next brew too...I'll have a cake of the WLP320 that I want to use again. I know it won't be authentic German but I'm not a huge fan of the big time clovey phenols that the Germen hefe yeasts give you anyway. It will be close enough for me.

So, I'm straight up brewing Baron's recipe.
 
Dude said:
Yes....

(sorry, I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the two :rolleyes:)


Are you new? :cross:

Dunkelweizen = dark heffeweizen

Weizenbock = strong weizen - always dark (I think), but much stronger than a Dunkel
 
Cheyco Libre said:
Are you new? :cross:

Dunkelweizen = dark heffeweizen

Weizenbock = strong weizen - always dark (I think), but much stronger than a Dunkel

I know. Sorry to crap in your thread.

I'm doing a Weizenbock, trying to get close to Schneider's "wheat dopplebock" Aventinus. :rolleyes:
 
i made a kit hefeweizen a few weeks ago, the LME was kind of old so I think it was a bit darker than normal, so my beer is much darker than you would expect a hefeweizen to be.

I am going to call it a dunkelweizen and nobody will ever know the difference. HA HA
 
I have a pretty good Dunkelweizen on tap right now; I used

50% German wheat
30% Munich
20% Belgian CaraMunich

Hallertau hops at 60 and a pinch at 15. WLP300 Weizen yeast. It seems to be right, stylewise, and is pretty yummy.
 
I just did what was intended to be a dunkel weizen but I was shipped way more crushed wheat than I asked for, so it turned into a weizenbock.. simply because it was going to about 6.5 or 7% abv.

I used German cara aroma to darken it up. 1/2 pound and its a beautiful color now, a murky reddish/brown, but not too dark. Oh, and it tastes AMAZING.
 
This is in the books:

5.5# each Wheat and Munich
15IBUs from Hallertau @ 60

I actually did do the Weihenstephan decoction, proper, (sorry Dude, it's the easiest way to get all those steps in there.)

I'll post the recipe proper soon.
 
I cracked the first tester of mine on the weekend (basically identical to yours but 13 IBU). It was really good but didn't have QUITE as much maltiness as I was hoping for. Would the decoction give that to me? I've been thinking of trying a decoction so I can do a protein rest without having to add more water but I also read that it can increase the malt flavour.
 
I have no idea how much it will help with the maltiness, although I'm optimistic. It seemed to help my efficiency a little, although it's still not as high as I want it. It's a lot more work; I started brewing at 8:00, Chillhayze got to the house at 11:00 and we were finished brewing within two or three minutes of each other (although I did do a 90 minute boil). I did do an infusion to hit protein rest temps (from my acid rest), although I probably could have skipped that step and saved a couple minutes.

I can't wait to taste it, but thankfully it's a hefe so I won't have to wait long!
 
Matt, I thought you brewed this thing like a month ago???

bradsul, let's see your recipe.

On decoctions...I wouldn't decoct to the protein rest, but save time and do an infusion there. I think a single thick decoction is enough and utilize it from protein -> saccharification. A thin decoction is useful and just as easy as an infusion (if not easier since the wort is already pretty hot) for mash out.
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
Matt, I thought you brewed this thing like a month ago???

No, I got tied-up doing other stuff, and I kept putting it off because of the decoction. What can I say? A guy gets busy sitting at home for two months! :cross:

Baron von BeeGee said:
On decoctions...I wouldn't decoct to the protein rest, but save time and do an infusion there. I think a single thick decoction is enough and utilize it from protein -> saccharification. A thin decoction is useful and just as easy as an infusion (if not easier since the wort is already pretty hot) for mash out.


That's exactly what I did except for the thin decoction, I just mashed out with my sparge water. It actually all went very smoothly with regard to hitting all my temps. It just takes sooo freakin' long!
 
Chairman Cheyco said:
That's exactly what I did except for the thin decoction, I just mashed out with my sparge water. It actually all went very smoothly with regard to hitting all my temps. It just takes sooo freakin' long!

Tell me about it! I started brewing at 8:00AM. Chillhayze got to my house at 11:00 (buddy doesn't know how to follow directions). We were done brewing within two minutes of each other.

Of course, I wasn't terribly smooth with hitting my mash temps, dammit!
 
My recipe was pretty simple. It was 55/45 wheat/munich and 13 IBU's of hallertauer at 60. Mashed at 153 and batch sparged, fermented at about 71F. I pitched it right onto the yeast cake of my hefeweizen. Thing practically exploded. Tastes amazing though! I'm doing another hefe for my bro and his SWMBO this weekend so I think I see some more dunkelweizen in my future. Going to try a decoction on it as well. Just a single with the decoction from protein rest to conversion as you suggested.

Edit: Connected through to my home computer, here is my actual recipe, I forgot about the chocolate.

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.73
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.45
Anticipated SRM: 18.3
Anticipated IBU: 12.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

3.00 kg. Wheat Malt
2.50 kg. Munich Malt
0.23 kg. Chocolate Malt

22.00 g. Hallertauer 60 min.

Irish Moss 15 Min.

WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Saccharification Rest Temp : 153 Time: 60
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 15
 
I'm a beginner, but doing my best to learn fast. I have my first Dunkel going in my primary right now. Been there 8 days now. Going to take another gravity measurement tonight but I'm pretty sure its done.

Question is, with a Dunkel... should I just leave it in there a few more days and go straight to bottling like a hefe? I used WLP300. Or would a secondary for a bit do it any good?
 
jvh261 said:
...Question is, with a Dunkel... should I just leave it in there a few more days and go straight to bottling like a hefe? I used WLP300. Or would a secondary for a bit do it any good?
Personally I don't bother with a secondary being that the beer is meant to be cloudy anyway. I usually let them sit in primary for 2 weeks and then right to the bottle.
 
I'm doing another hefe this weekend (going to dump on the cake from the hefe I'm kegging the same day), and probably going to give a dunkel a shot two weeks out from that. Is it okay to dump on the cake more than once, or should I start with a fresh vial of yeast for the dunkel?

I'm waiting on the German Wheat Beer book in the Classic Beer Styles line to see what it has to say about dunkelweizens, I ordered it the other day. I think I've got my process for hefes down pretty good now, and other than the grain bill there shouldn't be all that much difference.
 
bradsul said:
Personally I don't bother with a secondary being that the beer is meant to be cloudy anyway. I usually let them sit in primary for 2 weeks and then right to the bottle.

Thanks for the reply. Thats what I was thinking. Looks like I'll just leave it the rest of the week and bottle it this weekend.
 
Bottled mine on 5/26 and cracked the first bottle last night to give it a try. It was damn good after only 9 days in the bottle. I'm going to try and let it sit until the weekend before getting into more of them but SWMBO and myself really liked it. Had a nice banana note but not overpowering at all and good body for it being such a quick brew. I'm definitely going to make this recipe again this summer.
 
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