Dunkel vs Hefe, #300 vs 3068

[arover]

Ok, I gotta be honest, yesterday was my first try at both a Hefe and Dunkelweizen. I've got to say, the Dunkel is one of my new favorites (I'm not far into being 21, and fairly new to beer)! Both were Franziskaner, and I absolutely loved that soft banana aftertaste. Now I'm deciding whether to go for a Dunkel or Hefe kit for my next brew, and whether to use the WLP300 or the W3068? Since those are the only Hefe's and Dunkel's I've tried, I'm wondering what everyone's take on both is. I'm planning on doing a higher temp fermentation (around 68) to achieve that more banana taste, but I'm wondering what you guys think?

I was thinking of going for the AHS Bavarian Hefe or Dunkel...but I'm torn between the two. (I want to go AHS because shipping seems to be cheapest, unless anyone can recommend otherwise. Looking to buy outside the realm of my LHBS for once)

 

[carnevoodoo]

Same yeast!

Yeast Strains

 

[arover]

Well, I know they're the same relatively comparable yeasts, but are they literally the SAME strains, just sold by different companies? I was under the impression the 3068 is a bit more temp sensitive and produced more strong banana esters.

 

[android]

see this thread about w3068: banana esters and fermentation temps

i love dunkelweizen and regular hefes, that's a tough call. i say brew both but the hefe will probably appeal to a wider audience if you care about that sort of thing. also, try the ayinger and weinstephan versions of dunkel and hefe. edinger makes a good few also... this will just make your decision harder, but show you more variation in the style.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Well, I know they're the same relatively comparable yeasts, but are they literally the SAME strains, just sold by different companies? I was under the impression the 3068 is a bit more temp sensitive and produced more strong banana esters.

They are supposed to be the same strain. Naturally, with any living organism at that level, you will experience mutations or differentiations depending on when and how they were harvested. They are considered interchangeable, but some people have opinions one way or another.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

68 should be a good temp with that strain. You are on the right track.

 

[arover]

see this thread about w3068: banana esters and fermentation temps

i love dunkelweizen and regular hefes, that's a tough call. i say brew both but the hefe will probably appeal to a wider audience if you care about that sort of thing. also, try the ayinger and weinstephan versions of dunkel and hefe. edinger makes a good few also... this will just make your decision harder, but show you more variation in the style.

Yeah, I'm all about appealing to the guests, which is why I'm hesitant to go for a greater banana flavor. I personally love the more banana taste, but I know many who don't...I'm also thinking about how a dunkel would work out with a larger amount of such esters, since the flavor is a bit more complicated than a regular hefe...

 

[grayburn]

At 68 degrees the flavor won't be too intense, it is as you warm beyond that. I say go for the dunkel.

 

[Malticulous]

I've used both WLP300 and WY3068. I prefer WLP300. Plenty of banana at 68F. Franziskaner is a favorite of mine, both the dunkel and the hefe.

 

[Pappers_]

I recently made a dunkel with the WLP300, fermeneted at 68-70 degrees, and the banana and clove aroma/flavor is subtle but clear.

 

[DeathBrewer]

WLP380 is my choice for dunkelweizens. It doesn't give off as much banana as WLP300...having an almost apricot fruitiness to it. Much more subtle and perfect for a dark wheat when you don't want it to taste like banana bread WLP300 is still my favorite for hefeweizens.

I ferment in the low 60s usually, but anywhere below 68°F should be fine for that beer.

 

[snailsongs]

He wants the banana in there, though.

I just transferred (yes, I'm putting a wheat beer in secondary) a dunkel I brewed two weeks ago with Wy3068 at between 66-68 and it had definite banana notes, but I think it will be fairly balanced.

I became inspired by Franziskaner dunkel myself (oh god it's good), and have just now gotten around to making one. Since it was my first true wheat and my second AG batch, I went with Midwest's Deep Dark Wheat kit, only I removed two pounds of the grains because I didn't want it so "deep" (would've come out as 1.070 or something, I just wanted an easy drinker - ended up with 1.049 - perfect!

 

[IanIanBoBian]

I am curious whether you guys do the regular homebrew pour, then swirl the yeast and pour on top with your hefes and dunkels? I saw that that is how you're "supposed" to pour a hefe and i'm assuming it's the same for a dunkel?

 

[OLB]

Hopefully not off topic - what about Wyeast 3056?
I got it in the Bavarian Hefe kit form MidWest. I also want to make a Dunkel and I have some washed 3056. Should I use that or stick to the two mentioned here?

 

[DeathBrewer]

I am curious whether you guys do the regular homebrew pour, then swirl the yeast and pour on top with your hefes and dunkels? I saw that that is how you're "supposed" to pour a hefe and i'm assuming it's the same for a dunkel?

That depends. If it's been sitting in the bottle awhile, all the yeast will crud up on the bottom. I don't pour this in because it stays chunky. If the yeast is still pretty well in suspension, I'll pour the whole she-bang in

 

[arover]

He wants the banana in there, though.

I just transferred (yes, I'm putting a wheat beer in secondary) a dunkel I brewed two weeks ago with Wy3068 at between 66-68 and it had definite banana notes, but I think it will be fairly balanced.

I became inspired by Franziskaner dunkel myself (oh god it's good), and have just now gotten around to making one. Since it was my first true wheat and my second AG batch, I went with Midwest's Deep Dark Wheat kit, only I removed two pounds of the grains because I didn't want it so "deep" (would've come out as 1.070 or something, I just wanted an easy drinker - ended up with 1.049 - perfect!

I'm doing my first wheat next week, just a regular wheat with some rasberry extract added at bottling (some friends said they'd split the cost with me for it, wanted somethin fruity so why not)...Should wheats typically not be added to secondary?

 

[DeathBrewer]

Using a secondary is fine. You want some yeast in suspension, however, so just don't leave it in there too long. A total of 3 weeks in vessels is usually more than enough for any light wheat beer.

So, it is NEVER necessary to use a secondary for any beer but it is not going to hurt your hefeweizen to use a secondary.

 

[arover]

I'm curious why some yeast is desired with the hefes?

 

[DeathBrewer]

Part of the flavor comes from the proteins and yeast that are stuck in suspension. The haziness is part of the character.