Dull Tasting Beer

[corpsman619]

Hey guys,

So I have been drinking this new batch a made (Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone) and it is my first batch, and I noticed it tastes really dull. The hop aroma doesn't come through and the taste of the hops just don't taste crisp and bright (magnum, perle, and cascade). I checked my water report to see if it my was tap water and i noticed that the magnesium in my water was listed as n/d (none detected) and my calcium levels were low as well. I just brewed a batch last weekend and added 5g of gypsum and 5g of Epsom Salt to hit John Palmer recommended levels.

Do you think that the calcium is what lead to the dull taste? I am pretty sure that magnesium just aids in yeast nutrition but I read that Espom Salt helps get that bright forward hop flavor.

As far as the hop aroma thing, i think next time i will be dry hopping with 2-3 oz of whole leaf cascade rather than just 1.

 

[Pappers_]

As far as the hop aroma thing, i think next time i will be dry hopping with 2-3 oz of whole leaf cascade rather than just 1.

Upping the dry hop amount is a good idea - I often use 3 oz in an APA. Also, I've found pellets work better in a dry hop, soak up less beer and impart more aroma.

 

[SPR-GRN]

I'm no chemist but when I have an issue with my beer (eg. lack of hop flavor & aroma) I typically up the hop addition.

does the chemical makeup of your water play a role? yes it does, but when there is a specific issue I notice in my beer I usually start with the easy steps.

too malty/too bitter - adjust mash temp/adjust malt quantity/adjust hop addition
head issues/clarity issues/mouth feel issues - adjust mash temp/adjust adjuncts

I would start with adjusting your hop additions

magnesium sulfate and calcium sulfate are the specific salts you are looking for, but honestly I'd start with the hop additions, but again, I don't mess with my water chemistry.

 

[corpsman619]

In regards to aroma, I will undoubtedly be using 2-3 oz of pellet hops from now on.

Dull taste: the bitterness is spot on, it just does not taste bright, crisp, citrusy like I am going for. To give you an example, the bright crisp taste of Stone IPA. The hop tastes pop.

I think this has to do with water chemistry.

 

[Enbotellabuey]

Are you bottling or kegging? I had the same problem with my bottled PA/IPAs early on. The bottle conditioning kills a lot of the hop aroma, so I increased my dry hopping amounts. I now use two ounces for a 3.5 - 4 gallon batch.

 

[corpsman619]

In regards to aroma, I will undoubtedly be using 2-3 oz of pellet hops from now on.

Dull taste: the bitterness is spot on, it just does not taste bright, crisp, citrusy like I am going for. To give you an example, the bright crisp taste of Stone IPA. The hop tastes pop.

I think this has to do with water chemistry.

 

[Wynne-R]

Do you know your mash pH?

A low beer pH results in a crisper more lively beer while a high beer pH is generally associated with a dull flavor perception

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_pH_affects_brewing

 

[mtnagel]

Definitely paying attention to this. I just did a side by side test of Heady Topper vs my clone and the real HT was definitely crisper and the hops popped more. I didn't adjust my water at all for that one, but when I put in my water numbers into Saq's water calc spreadsheet, my Cl:SO4 ratio is for bitter beers.

But I made a Bell's Two Hearted clone and I added some gypsum to bring it into the very bitter range. So we'll see if that helps.

I only measured my mash pH (on a different beer), but it was spot on. I guess I should try measuring it for every batch.

 

[corpsman619]

I need to buy a water tasty kit to be sure, I'm going if my municipal water report and it leaves some stuff out. For example, in beer Smith water profile tool it out asks the water profile and the amount if water it was taken from. This is tough to tell fir me because it is from a city water report, it was probably taken from thousands of gallons...
I used the water calculator spread sheet I found online, it tells you what water additions to be within John Palmer recommended range.

 

[corpsman619]

Damn spell check...

 

[mtnagel]

Yeah, I'm also just using my water report, which is from 2012 and who knows where they sampled it from. Of course I can get mine tested, but of course that is just a snapshot in time. Who knows how often it would change.

 

[grathan]

Could also be a combination of slight off flavors and a lack of conditioning time masking the flavor as well as slightly bicarbonate water and stale ingredients. Its good to compare your homebrew to the professionals. It gives something to strive for.

 

[beernutz]

What was the recipe?

 

[jbaysurfer]

When I read the description "dull" I immediately defer to water. You have already discovered two deficient minerals:

calcium, which is good for yeast health, clarity and Mash PH and magnesium which is good for the same things, but there is also magnesium in your malt so that's probably not the more likely candidate.

Also, when you reference the lack of "crisp(ness)" I think of sulfates...especially when you also say it lacks the hop character you'd expect. Gypsum can help with that.

I would recommend getting "brun water" spreadsheet to help you figure out your additions. You can put in your base water specs and get exact amounts necessary. I also recommend you pay close attention to PH as this has a considerable affect on your end product.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Oh yeah, I don't trust my municipal H20 reports fwiw. The concentrations change constantly and even the sources change constantly in my area. Call the water department and ask to talk to someone there...they tend to be very helpful I've found. Ward labs will test your H20 and give you exact specs on what comes out of your tap.

 

[Brewtah]

Hey guys,

So I have been drinking this new batch a made (Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone) and it is my first batch, and I noticed it tastes really dull. The hop aroma doesn't come through and the taste of the hops just don't taste crisp and bright (magnum, perle, and cascade). I checked my water report to see if it my was tap water and i noticed that the magnesium in my water was listed as n/d (none detected) and my calcium levels were low as well. I just brewed a batch last weekend and added 5g of gypsum and 5g of Epsom Salt to hit John Palmer recommended levels.

Do you think that the calcium is what lead to the dull taste? I am pretty sure that magnesium just aids in yeast nutrition but I read that Espom Salt helps get that bright forward hop flavor.

As far as the hop aroma thing, i think next time i will be dry hopping with 2-3 oz of whole leaf cascade rather than just 1.

Are you using the Chico strain? Yeast can make a difference in hop "brightness".

 

[corpsman619]

I used WLP001

 

[mtnagel]

Oh yeah, I don't trust my municipal H20 reports fwiw. The concentrations change constantly and even the sources change constantly in my area. Call the water department and ask to talk to someone there...they tend to be very helpful I've found. Ward labs will test your H20 and give you exact specs on what comes out of your tap.

So if the municipal water source is changing constantly, then wouldn't you need to get your water tested pretty frequently?

 

[corpsman619]

My water is always coming from the same place but I really not too sure how accurate the report actually is and I dont know the amount of water that was tested. It is one of the things needed for the water profile tool in Beersmith.

 

[jbaysurfer]

So if the municipal water source is changing constantly, then wouldn't you need to get your water tested pretty frequently?

Yes, which is why I go all RO and build my water back up to the profile I need.

Edit: the post your referencing was advice for OP who lives in another place. He can get the Ward labs test done once and know what's in his water.

 

[mtnagel]

Yes, which is why I go all RO and build my water back up to the profile I need.

Edit: the post your referencing was advice for OP who lives in another place. He can get the Ward labs test done once and know what's in his water.

I just meant that if you get your water tested once, how sure are you that it will be the same months or years later? Should you get it tested every so often?

 

[jbaysurfer]

I just meant that if you get your water tested once, how sure are you that it will be the same months or years later? Should you get it tested every so often?

If you're asking in general, I'd say that you can verify your water sources consistency with a call to the water dept.

Personally, I had a report and called the water department and found out about our shifting sources. I believe most people won't have this issue though. It's just easier to go RO and build it back up in my case.