Dry vs. Liquid

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boomtown25

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I would like to hear some opinions about using these two different forms of yeast. I have favored liquid because of its ease and it just seems "more advanced". However, I am quickly realizing that buying a slap pack each brew I do turns an economical brew into the thought of "damn this could get expensive". Is there any benefit of using liquid over dry yeast? Can I still get awesome beer with dry yeast?:mug:
 
You can get great beer with dry yeast. In fact, dry yeast often has a higher cell count that liquid yeast does, which can make for better fermentation without having to make a starter.

The only reason I use liquid yeast is if I am trying to make a specific style that has a specific yeast demand (California Common and Saison come to mind) - otherwise, for most ales, dry yeast is perfectly fine.

Here are the pros and cons from the This Vs. That sticky:
Yeast: Liquid Vs. Dry

Liquid Yeast:
Pros:
Liquid yeast tends to come in many more varieties than are available dry
Many people don't recommended it, but you can pitch liquid without a starter. Again, this generally isn't recommended, but it will still end you up with beer

Cons:
It's more expensive than dry yeast by a long shot
You really should use a starter, although it's not 100% necessary
If you don't use a starter, you'll generally experience longer lag times with liquid yeast

Dry Yeast:
Pros:
Using a starter isn't necessary, as it's usually more cost effective to just pitch an extra pack of yeast if your recipe requires
It's cheap. Whereas White Labs liquid yeast can run over $6, a packet of Nottingham is about $1.50. Even if you're going to double pitch, that's still half the price
It's been my experience that dry yeast tends to hold up to shipping better than liquid yeast. This may or may not be the case for you, but that has been my experience

Cons:
Fewer available strains
I'm drawing a blank here
 
I'm far from an expert, but the answer to your overall question is YES! You CAN get awesome beer with dry yeast.

One of the biggest differences between dry yeast and liquid yeast is the number of varieties. Dry yeast only has a few varieties and there are tons of slight variations of liquid yeast, so the liquid yeast tends to help you brew closer to style and have more control over your beer.

Dry yeast normally only needs to be rehydrated with water and normally has plenty of cells to begin fermentation, and liquid yeasts normally require a starter to have enough viable cells, depending on your OG. The higher the OG, the more cells needed.

So, don't hesitate to use the dry yeast offering with kits, if they have one, it will make great beer! :mug:
 
I'll choose dry for most basic pale ale beers, and liquid for anything that only comes in liquid form.

What is easier than pouring a pack or two of dry yeast into your fermenter?? Now normally I rehydrate mine, but not everyone does and they seem to do just fine. drying techniques have come a long way over the years.
 
I just read up on washing yeast. I think this will be my next big project to save some money. I have 4 different liquid starins going that I can harvest now when they are done. I may have just found a new hobby!!!
 
The other thing that you can do is start to reuse the yeast cake from one batch to another. You can harvest from a batch and just add to a new one. It takes some coordination of brew schedules and of styles but in the long run you are cutting yeast cost to 1/4th. I started that way and then over time got more into havesting, washing and propagating. Once you start learning more about yeast you will also start to understand that there are some strains that are common amongst several producers and you can choose one that is less expensive for example Chico in Safale, Wyeast and White Labs. Have fun!
 
If you're brewing a standard ale it's a waste of time and money to use liquid yeast. Dry yeast is fine for 99% of the brewing we do.

I have found that a lot of new brewers especially, THINK they HAVE to use liquid yeast, but in reality most ales can be made with Notty, Windsor, Us-05, Us-04 and many lagers with basic Saflager.....7-8 bucks a pop for liquid as opposed to $1.50-2.50 for dry, with more cell count, is imho just a waste of money for the majority of a brewer's recipe bank...most commercial ales us a limited range of strains, and those liquid strains are really the same strains that the afore mentioned dry strains cover, for example Us-05 is the famed "Chico strain", so if you are paying 7-8 bucks for Wyeast 1056 American/Chico Ale Yeast, and you STILL have to make a starter to have enough viable cells, then you are ripping yourself off, in terms of time and money....

I use dry yeast for 99% of my beers, for basic ales I use safale 05, for more british styles I us safale 04 and for basic lagers I use saflager..

The only time I use liquid yeast is if I am making a beer where the yeast drives the style, where certain flavor characteristics are derived from the yeast, such as phenols. Like Belgian beers, where you get spicy/peppery flavors from the yeast and higher temp fermentation. Or let's say a wheat beer (needing a lowly flocculant yest) or a Kholsch, where the style of the beer uses a specific yeast strain that is un available in dry form.

But if you are looking for a "clean" yeast profile, meaning about 90% of american ales, the 05, or nottingham is the way to go. Need "Bready" or yeasty for English ales, then 04 or windsor. Want a clean, low profile lager yeast- saflager usually does the trick.

If the kit is fresh, then the yeast that comes with it will be fine.

The idea of dry yeast is "bad" is really a holdover from the bad old days of homebrew prohibition (prior to 1978 in america) when yeast came over in hot ship cargo holds, was of indeterminant pedigree and may have sat on the shelves under those cans of blue ribbon malt extract in the grocery store for god knows how long. That is simply not the case in the 21st century- all yeasts, liquid or dry ave excellent and can be used, EVEN the stuff that comes with kits.

Even John Palmer, who's book How to brew, I really think you need to read BEFORE you try to tackle kai (consider it the Grey's anatomy of brewing books) doesn't bash dry yeast.

Palmer doesn't bash dry yeasts...

Yeast come in two main product forms, dry and liquid. (There is also another form, available as pure cultures on petri dishes or slants, but it is generally used as one would use liquid yeast.) Dry yeast are select, hardy strains that have been dehydrated for storability. There are a lot of yeast cells in a typical 7 gram packet. For best results, it needs to be re-hydrated before it is pitched. For the first-time brewer, a dry ale yeast is highly recommended.

Dry yeast is convenient for the beginning brewer because the packets provide a lot of viable yeast cells, they can be stored for extended periods of time and they can be prepared quickly on brewing day. It is common to use one or two packets (7 - 14 grams) of dried yeast for a typical five gallon batch. This amount of yeast, when properly re-hydrated, provides enough active yeast cells to ensure a strong fermentation. Dry yeast can be stored for extended periods (preferably in the refrigerator) but the packets do degrade with time. This is one of the pitfalls with brewing from the no-name yeast packets taped to the top of a can of malt extract. They are probably more than a year old and may not be very viable. It is better to buy another packet or three of a reputable brewer's yeast that has been kept in the refrigerator at the brewshop. Some leading and reliable brands of dry yeast are DCL Yeast, Yeast Labs (marketed by G.W. Kent, produced by Lallemand of Canada), Cooper's, DanStar (produced by Lallemand), Munton & Fison and Edme.

Dry yeasts are good but the rigor of the dehydration process limits the number of different ale strains that are available and in the case of dry lager yeast, eliminates them almost entirely. A few dry lager yeasts do exist, but popular opinion is that they behave more like ale yeasts than lager. DCL Yeast markets two strains of dry lager yeast, Saflager S-189 and S-23, though only S-23 is currently available in a homebrewing size. The recommended fermentation temperature is 48-59°F. I would advise you to use two packets per 5 gallon batch to be assured of a good pitching rate.

The only thing missing with dry yeast is real individuality, which is where liquid yeasts come in. Many more different strains of yeast are available in liquid form than in dry.

Liquid yeast used to come in 50 ml foil pouches, and did not contain as many yeast cells as in the dry packets. The yeast in these packages needed to be grown in a starter wort to bring the cell counts up to a more useful level. In the past few years, larger 175 ml pouches (Wyeast Labs) and ready-to-pitch tubes (White Labs) have become the most popular forms of liquid yeast packaging and contain enough viable cells to ferment a five gallon batch.

The Yeast like Notty, Us-05, u-04, and many others, made my Danstar, and fermentis are some of the best yeast around, they are just as good as the liquid strains, in fact, many are the exact same strains as those by whitelabs, and wyyeast, just in dry forms.

Good quality dry yeast has been used by commercial breweries for decades if not longer, and it was only since Homebrewing was legalized was the stuff we know available to homebrewers.

That's why every dry yeast house has industrial divisions.

Danstars website even alludes to this...

The use of active dried professional yeasts for amateur brewing is a relatively new phenomenon introduced by Lallemand. Now, choose your active dried yeast for brewing with confidence. Ask for Danstar superior quality yeasts at your local retailer.

And this from Fermentis....Beer Industrial Brewing Why use Fermentis Yeast

Bottom line, use what you want, but realize that is only a preference. Both liquid and dry are excellent these days. They both have the potential to make great or crappy beer.
 
Thanks Revvy! So if I pick up what your putting down, I can basically buy about 5-10 packs of dry yeast (for the cost of a slap pack) and keep it in the house for what I would usually brew, and if I want to do something else, I can harvest and wash my strains I have right now fermenting (I have a Hef going with Wyeast and I also have one with Northern Brewer Wyeast, and my next on the way is a dunkel which is using WLP 380).
 
Thanks Revvy! So if I pick up what your putting down, I can basically buy about 5-10 packs of dry yeast (for the cost of a slap pack) and keep it in the house for what I would usually brew, and if I want to do something else, I can harvest and wash my strains I have right now fermenting (I have a Hef going with Wyeast and I also have one with Northern Brewer Wyeast, and my next on the way is a dunkel which is using WLP 380).

Yep. I always try to stock a few Nottys and a few US-05 in the fridge for brew day, or for the spur of the moment brew.

I'll build up a Belgian yeast, or a hefe (haven't brewed one yet) or something like that from liquid, or harvest from a bottle.

There can be subtle differences from one yeast to another, but they all work fine, dry or liquid. Just be sure to pitch the right amount and give them the right temp and pH.
 
I just read up on washing yeast. I think this will be my next big project to save some money. I have 4 different liquid starins going that I can harvest now when they are done. I may have just found a new hobby!!!

Hey Boomtown25, what was your OG on the Slobber? Mine came in higher than expected. :mug:
 
I'm not at the house right now, but I think it was 1.048. And yours?

I came in at 1.061, the kit predicted 1.052. I did a partial boil. My FG came in at 1.019. The sample tasted a little sweet, but that's what the style calls for.:tank:
 
Revvy said:
If you're brewing a standard ale it's a waste of time and money to use liquid yeast. Dry yeast is fine for 99% of the brewing we do.

I have found that a lot of new brewers especially, THINK they HAVE to use liquid yeast, but in reality most ales can be made with Notty, Windsor, Us-05, Us-04 and many lagers with basic Saflager.....7-8 bucks a pop for liquid as opposed to $1.50-2.50 for dry, with more cell count, is imho just a waste of money for the majority of a brewer's recipe bank...most commercial ales us a limited range of strains, and those liquid strains are really the same strains that the afore mentioned dry strains cover, for example Us-05 is the famed "Chico strain", so if you are paying 7-8 bucks for Wyeast 1056 American/Chico Ale Yeast, and you STILL have to make a starter to have enough viable cells, then you are ripping yourself off, in terms of time and money....

I use dry yeast for 99% of my beers, for basic ales I use safale 05, for more british styles I us safale 04 and for basic lagers I use saflager..

The only time I use liquid yeast is if I am making a beer where the yeast drives the style, where certain flavor characteristics are derived from the yeast, such as phenols. Like Belgian beers, where you get spicy/peppery flavors from the yeast and higher temp fermentation. Or let's say a wheat beer (needing a lowly flocculant yest) or a Kholsch, where the style of the beer uses a specific yeast strain that is un available in dry form.

But if you are looking for a "clean" yeast profile, meaning about 90% of american ales, the 05, or nottingham is the way to go. Need "Bready" or yeasty for English ales, then 04 or windsor. Want a clean, low profile lager yeast- saflager usually does the trick.

If the kit is fresh, then the yeast that comes with it will be fine.

The idea of dry yeast is "bad" is really a holdover from the bad old days of homebrew prohibition (prior to 1978 in america) when yeast came over in hot ship cargo holds, was of indeterminant pedigree and may have sat on the shelves under those cans of blue ribbon malt extract in the grocery store for god knows how long. That is simply not the case in the 21st century- all yeasts, liquid or dry ave excellent and can be used, EVEN the stuff that comes with kits.

Even John Palmer, who's book How to brew, I really think you need to read BEFORE you try to tackle kai (consider it the Grey's anatomy of brewing books) doesn't bash dry yeast.

Palmer doesn't bash dry yeasts...

The Yeast like Notty, Us-05, u-04, and many others, made my Danstar, and fermentis are some of the best yeast around, they are just as good as the liquid strains, in fact, many are the exact same strains as those by whitelabs, and wyyeast, just in dry forms.

Good quality dry yeast has been used by commercial breweries for decades if not longer, and it was only since Homebrewing was legalized was the stuff we know available to homebrewers.

That's why every dry yeast house has industrial divisions.

Danstars website even alludes to this...

And this from Fermentis....Beer Industrial Brewing Why use Fermentis Yeast

Bottom line, use what you want, but realize that is only a preference. Both liquid and dry are excellent these days. They both have the potential to make great or crappy beer.

Awesome information! Reading Palmers book now, this topic would be good in the Yeast & fermentation section though.
 
I've only done 10 or so batches (maybe a few more), but I've only ever used liquid yeast once (a slap pack of 1056). Since then for the same recipe, I use US-05 which is the same stuff in dry form, and tastes and behaves exactly the same for half the price.

My last batch I used Nottingham for the first time and was really impressed. It was austin homebrew's apocalypso kit and I've never had a yeast stick so hard to the bottom of the bottles. I mean seriously, I didnt use any clearing agents or whirlfloc or anything, but the yeast cake is so stuck down I have to rinse the hell out of each bottle and the beer is perfectly clear. Definitely one to do again.

Also the dry travels well, whereas with liquid you should get a cold pack if you order from afar.
 
Yeah, I am definitely going dry from now on, unless I am looking for a specific flavor or characteristic in the yeast that is only available in liquid. Especially after reading how easy washing yeast and collecting it can be. I wonder if it would be wrong to start a network of "yeast bartering" on here. Obviously there are plenty of members who have a frozen stockpile. We could do this "this for that" and just send each other frozen baby jars and pay the cost of shipping.
 
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