Dry hopping and diacetyl rest

[Geoffrey006]

Hi guys !

I've read a LOT of paradoxal things about dry hopping in terms of temperature and timings, and I'm still unclear of how is the best way to do it, so I'm asking you guys.

What I though I would do is put the dry hops when fermentation is almost over (0.004 before FG), and leave it for 5 days. This means that the diacetyl rest will happen at the same time than the dry-hoping. But if I do that, it means I have to leave the temperature at 18/20°C and therefore I don't have the best dry-hop temperature of 14°C.

An alternative method would be to wait that fermentation is over, wait for 2 days for diacetyl rest, and then purge yeasts off and put temperature to 14°C and dry-hop. But in that way, I don't benefit from the remaining active yeast which gives them opportunity to enzymatically liberate aromatics and which ensures that yeast will metabolize most of the oxygen introduced.

I think I've read that Brewdog uses the 2nd method.

So all in all, I'm still unsure on what to do.
What are you thoughts on this ?

Thank you !

PS: I'm not sure if this is important to mention, but I will bottle, not keg.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I would go with the former. The latter case works best if you're filtering/centrifuging (ie a commercial brewery) to remove yeast, otherwise you can run into hop creep issues and overcarb (especially if bottling), and actually produce diacetyl in the process.

 

[Geoffrey006]

Thank you

Is it a possibility to do the first scenario, but instead of doing all of it at 18/19°C, doing the first 2/3 days at 18/19°C and then 2/3 more days at 14°C ? and then cold crash

 

[Qhrumphf]

I would probably leave it at ferm temp the whole time, skip the soft crash, and when it's done just crash it.

 

[Philiusofical]

@Geoffery006 - I have the exact same question and was wondering which approach you ending up using and what the results were?

 

[couchsending]

There’s is no right answer. Depends on your preference, your yeast, the Variety and quality of your hops, and your equipment.

If you’re dry hopping at fermentation temperatures there can never be a set time before crashing or transferring. Hop Creep can be virtually non existent or it can be explosive. You really should do a forced diacetyl test before cooling if dry hopping above 60. I believe I’ve heard Vinnie say it can take 7-9 days before some of their dry hopped beers will negative for VDKs and can be crashed.

You will get the most impact from the hops with the least amount of yeast present. If you want to dry hop during fermentation personally I recommend using 1/4-1/3 or your total dry hop load as close to terminal as you can get. If you like to or can harvest yeast this will let you remove some yeast for future brews as some will have flocced. Again depends on your yeast. Leave hops in there and check for diacetyl and check your gravity after 4 days (ideally with a finishing hydrometer). Again depending on the beer, yeast, or hops hop creep may or may not happen. Then I recommend soft crashing to 55-60. Waiting for 24 hours and removing as much of the yeast and hops that you can then then adding yourself remaining dry hops and keeping the beer ideally below 60. Even though you’ve removed yeast and lowered the temp depending on your yeast addition creep can happen so again do a forced VDK test before crashing, ideally pulling the settles hops out of the beer as you go.

Sounds like a PITA but making mind blowing beer isn’t ever easy. Clearly it’s easiest with a conical fermenter and a way to keep head pressure while cooling and of course Co2 but you can get creative with other methods and equipment.

In my experience the hops that are the biggest hop creep offenders are El Dorado, Mosaic, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade. But again that is totally lot dependent. For me Amarillo and Mosaic are usually the worst.

If you’ve got some less than ideal hops (ones with maybe Catty, grassy, diesel, plastic notes) its best to use those at fermentation temps as yeast activity can help to blow off or transform those compounds. You don’t need a ton of yeast activity to get the benefits of biotransformation... that is if your yeast is capable of it.

 

[Garrett Allen]

Hi guys !

I've read a LOT of paradoxal things about dry hopping in terms of temperature and timings, and I'm still unclear of how is the best way to do it, so I'm asking you guys.

What I though I would do is put the dry hops when fermentation is almost over (0.004 before FG), and leave it for 5 days. This means that the diacetyl rest will happen at the same time than the dry-hoping. But if I do that, it means I have to leave the temperature at 18/20°C and therefore I don't have the best dry-hop temperature of 14°C.

An alternative method would be to wait that fermentation is over, wait for 2 days for diacetyl rest, and then purge yeasts off and put temperature to 14°C and dry-hop. But in that way, I don't benefit from the remaining active yeast which gives them opportunity to enzymatically liberate aromatics and which ensures that yeast will metabolize most of the oxygen introduced.

I think I've read that Brewdog uses the 2nd method.

So all in all, I'm still unsure on what to do.
What are you thoughts on this ?

Thank you !

PS: I'm not sure if this is important to mention, but I will bottle, not keg.

Some of the best brewers out there making awesome IPA I know are doing exactly what you describe in the first method. They're adding hops just before the final few points are attenuated.

I'm not sure there's a "best" temperature for dry hopping. A few commercial brewers (also making fantastic IPA) drop the temperature so that the yeast flocculates a little more. Then they dump as much yeast/trub as possible before dry hopping so that the trub doesn't pull down/out those hop oils being added. But this isn't easily feasible on the homebrew scale. So the first method is most likely going to be the way you want to go. It will definitely still make an awesome beer even though it's different from the other.