Drinking Age

[Genghis77]

A thought occurs to me regarding the US drinking age. The Federal Government blackmailed states into raising the drinking age to 21 on the threat of withholding highway funds. Granted the objective was said to reduce the number of youthful drunken drivers. But, in the real world kids are going to find ways to obtain alcohol. Considering nearly every state regards 18 as an adult for all other legal reasons, it seems unfairthat they are considered adults with this one exception. And the bottom line is that it probably only encourages unresponsible and binge drinking.

I have a personal grudge about drinking age. As I was not yet 21 when I returned from Viet Nam, with a Purple Heart on my uniform and was refused service in a New York City bar..... which at the time had a drinking age of 18 but the bar itself imposed a no one under 21 policy. Needless to say I was real unhappy with the situation and a sympathetic cop told the bartender to serve me and paid for my first drink there.

 

[loopmd]

I never served in the armed forces and thank you for doing so. My Dad, who was in the Air Force during the Vietnam Era, always thought it was ridiculous that an 18 year old man was good enough to go to war, but could not stop by and have a drink before doing so. I always thought it was a good point. You bring up another one about binge drinking.

loop

 

[ultraplop]

This is a very good point. We are a country that is supposed to be based on freedom. With slogans such as "Liberty or Death", I find it rather hypocritical that many laws such as the drinking age law get passed.

I find this law is unfathomable and assinine. To me it should be considered age discrimination. America's legal system is pretty skewed and a lot of it makes 0 sense to me. Why are insurance companies allowed discriminate based off age or sex? Car rental agencies are also allowed to do this. I'm sure If I did some research I could come up with hundred of laws that are unjust in a similar manner.

To me, at 18 an adult is an adult and noone should have the right to discriminate. Not to mention that the logic behind the law is overwhelmingly flawed. People make decisions off of propoganda rather than logic.

 

[david_42]

I also find it a bit odd, that the same organization that pushed for the 21 drinking age (the feds) allows (or at least they did when I was in the service) on-base drinking at 18!

 

[Genghis77]

I will add this question: If the government is really against drunk driving, why do they allow bars to have parking lots? Seems they miss the obvious.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Better yet: If drinking and driving is against the law why is it you can buy beer at a gas station?

I, too, agree that the law is age discrimination.

I was in during Nam also, but I was drinking in bars at 16. Never got carded.

If you are an adult it's all the benefits or nothing.

 

[dancingbarefoot]

Better yet: If drinking and driving is against the law why is it you can buy beer at a gas station?

Or drive-through liquor stores? I think it was Wyoming I saw those in. WTF?

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

Or drive-through liquor stores? I think it was Wyoming I saw those in. WTF?

those where all over when i was growing up. TX thang. el pistolero and i missed u tonight barefoot. we met and hung out at ginger man and 2 rows....

 

[dancingbarefoot]

those where all over when i was growing up. TX thang. el pistolero and i missed u tonight barefoot. we met and hung out at ginger man and 2 rows....

****e! Hope you guys had a great time. Anything really interesting/good on tap that they don't normally have?

Oh well, I wouldn't have been able to make it. Horrendous research paper due tomorrow. (And of course, I'm procrastinating by surfing the net. )

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

pint glass night at ginger man..schneider weisse ....dunkel and regular hefe....cool glases....stumbled to 2 rows for pizza and a hopzilla...or 2.....

 

[homebrewer_99]

Or drive-through liquor stores? I think it was Wyoming I saw those in. WTF?

Yeah, "Brew Throughs"

 

[Pumbaa]

Usualy I am very libertarian in though but I also believe your "guarenteed constitution rights" aren't near as broad as alot of people think. It IS NOT the federal goverenments place to make a national legal drinking age, and in ths case they didnt actuallly do that, but it is up to the individual states to decide on what the legal age to drink should be. If any of the States gevernors had any balls and weren't so addicted to federal money they would have told Washington to pound sand. To some that may sound like a redicualous idea but it has been done b4, the best fire department in the world, FDNY, is only the best because they told the Feds to stick it when they tried to impose a quota based hiring system which would have forced them to lower their standards for hiring new recruits.

When it comes to members of the military it's a different story, they ARE property of the federal government and waive thier rights soon as they agree to live by the UCMJ. I do think in that case anyone with a valid (non dependent) military ID should be allowed to drink in any state reguardless of age.

Over all I am against any drinking age, and as much as it makes me want to barf I think we should look to Europe on this issue. Seems to me that drinking with the younger crowd their doesnt seem to be as big of a deal and is much less of a problem . . . maybe someone from the other side of the pond could fill me in and the state of young drinkers over their since I dont have first hand knowledge.

 

[Genghis77]

Worst place for drunk drivers: I briefly lived in an over 55 community. Drunk driving was rampant, especially among the Homeowners' board members. Most of them were well into their 70's. The association president had 3 DUII's and tapped the funds to pay his fines. For me, that is an experience I will not repeat. I definitely prefer living with all ages, they aren't at war with everybody else.

 

[merc]

Well, now days, military installations go by the laws of the state they are in. Here in Texas, state law says 21, so you have to be 21 to purchase alcohol on base. What I found funny a few years ago when I was in Arkansas, was base fascilities started enforcing the Minimum Drinking Age on NON Alcoholic beer, because it actually has some miniscule amount of alcohol in it. Honestly, if they're going to be that anal, they need to put a Minimum Drinking Age on over the counter cough syrup.

Military Installations overseas generally go by the laws of the host country.

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

Growing up back in the 80s when NY started raising its drinking age from 18 to 21 I had a buddy who turned 18, was able to drink legally for about 3 months then the age went to 19 he was illeagal. He turned 19 the next year, same thing, was able to drink for a few months and the age went up to 21. Now was he any less responsible just because the state decided to raise the limit I don't think so. I think drinking, like alot of things needs to be practiced, and by that I mean you don't learn to drink responsibly without drinking.

 

[cowain]

Yeah, the situation sucks it - hard. Of course, now that I am waaay above 18, I'm not as concerned.

For awhile, Louisiana had 18 as the drinking age, but eventually they bitched out to get the additional federal funding.

It seems to me that the real reason states do this is because 18-21 is such a small age frame that they can't cause any political havoc and force the politicians into thinking of an alternate method to pay for roads.

Here's a suggestion - Lower drinking age to 18. Increase taxes on alcohol to come up with additional money for roads. Once some spot in the state becomes the mecca for college spring breaks, either lower taxes and receive same amount of money for roads or leave taxes high and use excess to pay for education, etc.

 

[Walker]

Growing up back in the 80s when NY started raising its drinking age from 18 to 21 I had a buddy who turned 18, was able to drink legally for about 3 months then the age went to 19 he was illeagal. He turned 19 the next year, same thing, was able to drink for a few months and the age went up to 21.

That's a weird way to handle the age change, IMHO.

I remember when my sister graduated HS in the late 80's (in Ohio), the drinking age had been raised to 21 during her Sr. year. She happened to turn 18 before the law changed, and she was allowed to drink along with a good number of her friends. A few months after her birthday, the legal age changed to 21, leaving the rest of her friends high and dry (puns intended).

OH handled the change differently. Anyone who had turned 18 before the date that the law changed was "grandfathered-in", so-to-speak, and they continued to be legal (meaning that there were a LOT of 18, 19, and 20 year olds that were legal, even though the law stated the legal age as 21). Anyone who turned 18 on or after the date the law changed had to wait for 3 more years to be legal (my sister's boyfriend missed the mark by about 2 weeks).

It made for a weird situation at graduation parties that year. Half of the kids there were legally allowed to consume alcohol (my father provided it at my sister's party), but the other half of the kids were not allowed to drink.

My father blew his top over the whole raising of the drinking age anyway. He thought it was rediculous, so he allowed ALL the graduating kids to drink at my sister's party, provided that they turned over their car keys to him prior to heading to the kegs.

My brother graduated 3 years later, but Dad wasn't as flexible about the thing at that time.

-walker

 

[milholen]

Our government has imposed many laws in the name of safety and "protection of society" that have only served to limit our freedom. This is getting worse as time goes on. We need a new approach to government -- one that does not attempt to control our personal actions in such a way as to slowly erode our liberties. I'm a libertarian and wish more folks would join. The ideas you are expressing are what the libertarians have been screaming for years!

http://www.lp.org/

Case in point: I live in Ohio -- technically it's illegal for me to brew my own beer in my home. Even though I pay taxes AND I serve in the National Guard -- I cannot legally brew an alcoholic beverage in my own home!

 

[Genghis77]

I once heard that more laws have been written and passed in the last 20 years than the previous 200. Now it takes a lawyer to understand any of the laws and even they have to specialize.

That grandfathered in 18 drinking age must have been a nightmare when it came to carding. Also ,I can't help but wonder if the use of illegal drugs would be reduced if alcohol was legal at 18. Hence a law that makes matters worse?

 

[Walker]

Case in point: I live in Ohio -- technically it's illegal for me to brew my own beer in my home. Even though I pay taxes AND I serve in the National Guard -- I cannot legally brew an alcoholic beverage in my own home!

You could always cough up the $3,906 for an A-1 permit in Ohio and brew it legally then.

Heck, that permit would also give you the legal right to SELL your beer.

If you can make a bottle of beer for $0.40 and sell it for $1.00, your license would pay for itself after you sold about 270 cases of your goods.

-walker

 

[Walker]

I once heard that more laws have been written and passed in the last 20 years than the previous 200. Now it takes a lawyer to understand any of the laws and even they have to specialize.

That grandfathered in 18 drinking age must have been a nightmare when it came to carding. Also ,I can't help but wonder if the use of illegal drugs would be reduced if alcohol was legal at 18. Hence a law that makes matters worse?

IIRC, the state required you to get a new driver's license or state ID on your 18th birthday. They used a different color curtain behind the legal and non-legal people in the photos to make matters easier to deal with for bars and stores (blue = legal, red = not legal).

-walker

 

[barleypopmaker]

I find this law is unfathomable and assinine. To me it should be considered age discrimination. America's legal system is pretty skewed and a lot of it makes 0 sense to me. Why are insurance companies allowed discriminate based off age or sex? .

Don't forget if you commit a violent crime you can be tried as an adult even if you are a child. Just another messed up loop in the legal system as far as age goes.

 

[rewster451]

Everyone seems agreed that the 21 age makes binge drinking a problem, so I hardly think it's necessary to explain it, but I will, because I like to do that sort of thing.

At 18 you feel that you are an adult and entitled to all the rights of an adult, including drinking. Everyone you hang out with feels that way, but it's hard to get alcohol. Then, somehow, you come up with a connection and you get as much as you can afford, because you deserve it, dammit. So you and your friends drink a whole lot of it because you don't know how much it takes to get drunk and you don't want to undershoot it. Who knows when you'll drink again. Before long you associate being "drunk" with puking, fighting, passing out on porches and being a total jackass in front of people, and you think that's what the "adults" are trying to keep you from doing. By the time you're 21 you're lucky if you're not an alcoholic. Yeah. Good law. Keep 'em coming Washington.

 

[BadKarmaa]

I'm with all of you on this one. I'm from Albuquerque NM. We have some of the harshest DWI laws in the country. Get this- we have party police. yes you heard right and that is what the department is called though we call them the fun police. It's an entire police department, with the same power as a state trooper, devoted to busting parties around the city. They don't just bust them either. They cite people with MIP's (minor in posession) for the ones underage and CDM's (contributing to the delinquency of a minor) for the people that are 21. CDM's, thanks to jack @@@ Bill Ritchardson, are now a 4th degree fellony. Underage concerts are illigal for our local bars but not for BB games or concerts at any other stadium. ID's are verticle if your under 21 and horizontal if you are. the list goes on and on.

You all made some great points though. I know personally that if i started drinking legally earlyer, It wouldn't have been the rebelious thing to do, and It certainly would have helped me learn my limit sooner. Took me three years at UNM to learn that passing out somewhere on campus on my stumbling walk home was way past drunk. Yet people here don't stop drinking until they hit that stage. They don't drink for liesure or to socialize. They drink to get F'd up and socialize in between.

 

[wild]

Does contributing to the delinquency of a minor include parents in their own home? Case in point; I've met European brewers that had migrated here. They kept a daily ritual of enjoying an ale one hour before dinner. This included the entire household. Of course the younger the child, the smaller the glass but still all partook of this ritual. To me it’s the same as learning to respect weapons at an early age. Here, we could take NRA (gun safety) classes at the age of nine at school or other facilities. This just boils down to the parents teaching/training their own and taking resposibility for such.

Wild

 

[Genghis77]

Speaking of responsible drinking, maybe it would be good to cover that thoroughly in a high school class. One of the greatest lessons to learn is to stay put if you are drinking and don't have a designated driver.

Not knowing much about drinking, one of my first experiences was taking up of a bet on chugging a pint bottle of scotch. Many kids have died from less. I got very sick and to this day cannot stand scotch. Like most others, I learned my limits in my mid 20's. But the time between 18 and 21 was the worst for abusing alcohol. I add it was often legal to drink at 18 at the time. But I used to run into places where it was 21 and also some bars had a self imposed age of 21.The thing that is necessary would be places that catered to younger drinkers and enough supervision to avoid the heavy binge drinking.

One last thing. Alcohol is easy to make. Some fruit juice and yeast and a few days and you have wine. Coconut milk will ferment is a few hours in the sun. Yet ask most kids and it is easier to obtain drugs than alcohol. So, the 18 drinking age upsets the balance of what is really desired.

 

[Genghis77]

Just thinking of something else in regard to binge drinking and drugs. I am from the generation that was threatened by global nuclear war. Yet, things were pretty stable and things changed slowly. Today's young people are faced with rapid change. 30,000 Ford workers thought they would be making cars for the rest of their lives. Fact is just about any career can come to an abrupt end. So, one big cause of binge drinking and drug use is most probably lack of direction and security. And things are only made more confusing making a person an adult in all other aspects other than drinking.

J
​

 

[El Pistolero]

I am from the generation that was threatened by global nuclear war.

You probably remember bomb drills...everybody quick, get under your desk and start praying.

 

[Genghis77]

Yeah! Like the desk was going to protect us. Seems those drills ended about the time I was in the 6th grade. With rogue countries developing the a bomb and terrorists, it's probably a greater threat now. Just not as extensive. Joe Stalin might have done it though.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Kinda reminds me of seat belts in planes. Sure, if the impact is not too great your body will still be in your assigned seat.

In actuality, it's just so the airlines can do a quicker inventory of the bodies.

"In case of an unscheduled water landing please use the body next to you as a floatation device..."

 

[McCall St. Brewer]

My Dad always says, "When I was growing up, they would serve you a beer as soon as you were tall enough to put your money on the bar."

When I was growing up, 18 was legal, but lots of places would serve you if you were 16 or so. Heck, I figure it gave us more time to practice and learn to be responsible drinkers.

(In Wisconsin17 year olds who commit serious crimes are automatically treated as adults and could go to prison-- 4 years before they can legally buy a drink. Hmmm.)

 

[homebrewer_99]

My Dad always says, "When I was growing up, they would serve you a beer as soon as you were tall enough to put your money on the bar."

When I was growing up, 18 was legal, but lots of places would serve you if you were 16 or so. Heck, I figure it gave us more time to practice and learn to be responsible drinkers.

(In Wisconsin17 year olds who commit serious crimes are automatically treated as adults and could go to prison-- 4 years before they can legally buy a drink. Hmmm.)

...just waiting for some lawyer to say you shouldn't be tried as an adult if you weren't given all the rights of an adult. If you weren't given all the rights of an adult, you therefore, are not an adult and must be charged as a juvenile.