Doppelbock Water Profile - How to increase bicarbonate level?

[rwing7486]

Hey Everyone,

I am looking to stat my Doppelbock next month (grain bill below)and I am targeting to use the Munich water profile in Brun Water. With that said the water profile for this beer has a high level of bicarbonates - 295ppm. Below I have my house water profile along with my target finished profile adding 1.4g of pickling lime to my 5.53 gallons of Mash water. My concern is since my house water has a pH of 7.5 I will need to add 2mL of latic acid to my 5.3 galons of sparge to reduce the pH down to 6.0. With that said that will reduce the sparge bicarbonate level from 102 down to 33.5. Using the following equation I calculate my net bicarbonate level to be 124. Is this correct? And if so is there a way to increase the bicarobane level in the beer. Only thing i can think of is to sparge withh my tap water, but I am not sure of the risk of pulling tannins into the beer. Another thought might be to increase my water to grist ratio in the mash to reduce the sparge water volume, but then I feel my efficiency will start to go down as well.

((5.53*210.7)+(5.3*33.5)) / (5.53+5.3) = 124


Grain Bill
12lbs Munich II (9L)
3 lbs German Pils (2.0L)
2lbs CaraMunich (48L)

My house water profile
pH of 7.5
Ca- 29
Mg-9
Na-5
SO4- 21
Cl-7
Bicarbonates - 102


Adding 1.4g pickling lime to Mash water
Estimated room temp pH = 5.5
Ca-64.7
Mg-9
Na-5
SO4-21
CL-7
Bicarbonates- 210.7

 

[mabrungard]

No No No! Don't target a bicarbonate or alkalinity level presented in a profile. Only target enough bicarbonate or alkalinity to achieve an acceptable mash pH. Brewers in Munich DO NOT use their raw water to brew even the darkest of their styles. They do add acid in some form to neutralize the alkalinity to an acceptable level.

 

[rwing7486]

No No No! Don't target a bicarbonate or alkalinity level presented in a profile. Only target enough bicarbonate or alkalinity to achieve an acceptable mash pH. Brewers in Munich DO NOT use their raw water to brew even the darkest of their styles. They do add acid in some form to neutralize the alkalinity to an acceptable level.

understood. Here is what my profile looks like without adding any minerals. This yields me an estimated mash room temp pH of 5.3. I might add a little baking soda to raise the calcium level and to ensure my mash pH is acceptable. In the spread sheet I am assuming Munich Malt II as a crystal malt. if I target an estimated room temp mash pH of 5.5 I should be OK. Thoughts? I only have pH test strips so its hard for me to get a dead on accurate pH reading.

 

[rwing7486]

Or Something like this I think will work for this beer style. (Estimated room temp pH 5.4)

 

[mabrungard]

I do target levels of flavor ions in my German styles that are on the order of the Munich profile. The Brown and other "colored" profiles are better suited for ales since the high Ca content is useful. In a lager such as a doppelbock, its not necessary or desirable to have that much Ca. Reducing all of the other flavor ions does reduce the flavor contributions of the water and allows the malt to make the boldest beer flavor statement.

 

[rwing7486]

I do target levels of flavor ions in my German styles that are on the order of the Munich profile. The Brown and other "colored" profiles are better suited for ales since the high Ca content is useful. In a lager such as a doppelbock, its not necessary or desirable to have that much Ca. Reducing all of the other flavor ions does reduce the flavor contributions of the water and allows the malt to make the boldest beer flavor statement.

Thanks for the tips martin. Do you still suggest targeting a calcium level of 50ppm though? to help the yeast during fermentation? Below is the latest profile I have. My estimated room temp pH is at 5.6 with this profile

 

[Yooper]

Where is all that extra bicarbonate coming from? That's too much!

 

[rwing7486]

Where is all that extra bicarbonate coming from? That's too much!

i added pickling lime to boost my calcium without adding sulfate. I can reduce it to bring it down to 50ppm. But with my sparge water having a pH of 7.5 i plan to add 2.3mL of latic acid to reduce my sparge pH down to 5.75. If my math is right having 5.5gallons with a bicarbonate level of 236.8 and my 5.5 gallons sparge having 20.5. my net bicarbonate level should be at 130.7.

 

[Yooper]

i added pickling lime to boost my calcium without adding sulfate. I can reduce it to bring it down to 50ppm. But with my sparge water having a pH of 7.5 i plan to add 2.3mL of latic acid to reduce my sparge pH down to 5.75. If my math is right having 5.5gallons with a bicarbonate level of 236.8 and my 5.5 gallons sparge having 20.5. my net bicarbonate level should be at 130.7.

Take out the lime completely! You don't need it and you don't need the calcium. It's good. If you are feeling really paranoid about the low calcium, you can go up to 40 ppm by using calcium chloride (which will increase the chloride a bit as well) and that's ok. But I'd follow martin's advice here and use your low mineral water here for the dopplebock.

Bru'nwater has a sparge water calculator that can help, and never (but never!) add alkalinity in any form to the sparge water.

 

[rwing7486]

Take out the lime completely! You don't need it and you don't need the calcium. It's good. If you are feeling really paranoid about the low calcium, you can go up to 40 ppm by using calcium chloride (which will increase the chloride a bit as well) and that's ok. But I'd follow martin's advice here and use your low mineral water here for the dopplebock.

Bru'nwater has a sparge water calculator that can help, and never (but never!) add alkalinity in any form to the sparge water.

Understood. So if I use my normal tap water this is what the profile looks like - Estimated room temp mash pH of 5.3. I usually like to target a 5.4 or 5.5 room temp pH since i use litmus strips for checking my pH. So might add a very small amounts of pickling lime or baking soda to bump up my pH. Thoughts?