Don't wait until secondary to add fruit puree.

[coonmanx]

I used to do that. I would put it into secondary and then add a blowoff tube. Now I simply wait until primary crashes and then add it to the carboy. It will become active for a couple of days and then settle back down. At that point it can go into secondary and you don't have all of that sediment. I have been using this method for a while now with no loss of fruit flavor in the beer. I recently did an Apricot Honey Ale that way and then Mango Honey Ale. The mango came out a bit subdued but excellent. The Apricot Honey Ale was on point and I didn't even use a full can of the puree. The Mango Honey Ale lasted just over 24 hours when I shared it with friends. Today I am going for a Strawberry ESB. Not sure what to expect as people say that strawberry comes out more subdued as a fruit flavor. But that is OK since I want the fruit to be a secondary flavor to the beer itself. I once poured a six pack of Sam Adams Cherry Wheat down the drain because it tasted like cough syrup. LOL.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I used to do that. I would put it into secondary and then add a blowoff tube. Now I simply wait until primary crashes and then add it to the carboy. It will become active for a couple of days and then settle back down. At that point it can go into secondary and you don't have all of that sediment. I have been using this method fro a while now with no loss of fruit flavor in the beer. I recently did an Apricot Honey Ale that way and then Mango Honey Ale. The mango came out a bit subdued but excellent. The Apricot Honey Ale was on point and I didn't even use a full can of the puree. The Mango Honey Ale lasted just over 24 hours when I shared it with friends. Today I am going for a Strawberry ESB. Not sure what to expect as people say that strawberry comes out more subdued as a fruit flavor. But that is OK since I want the fruit to be a secondary flavor to the beer itself. I once poured a six pack of Sam Adams Cherry Wheat down the drain because it tasted like cough syrup. LOL.

np;dr. LOL

 

[coonmanx]

np;dr. LOL

I don't even know what that means... np;dr... Not paying attention; didn't read...

I am sharing this information because if you do fruit beers this is a much better way of doing things. The whole reason that you don't add the fruit when the primary is going full steam is because some of the flavor components might get blown off with the CO2. So if you wait until the primary has already crashed then that does not occur. But by doing it at the end of primary and before secondary you avoid having to use a blowoff tube and also the sediment in the secondary is reduced so that you actually get more beer as well. Just thought I would share in case anyone is interested in doing some awesome fruit beers. Also the fruit puree I use is Vintner's Harvest and comes in a can, all ready to use (I believe it is a 49 oz. can). With the Apricot Honey Ale I pulled out 2 cups of puree and used it for making a pancake syrup because I did not want the apricot to overwhelm. Did the same with the mango puree and that came out a bit subdued. So the amount that someone might use depends on the actual fruit being used.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

np;dr: No paragraphs, didn't read; "wall of words". LOL.

 

[coonmanx]

A bit surprised that nobody has commented on the substance of this post. I only recently started doing this and found the results to be just as good or better than siphoning the beer on top of the puree in the secondary.

You can teach an old dog new tricks. I have been brewing for over thirty years and only recently discovered this method. It's not always in a book. Sometimes you have to figure it out for yourself.

 

[rburrelli]

A bit surprised that nobody has commented on the substance of this post. I only recently started doing this and found the results to be just as good or better than siphoning the beer on top of the puree in the secondary.

You can teach an old dog new tricks. I have been brewing for over thirty years and only recently discovered this method. It's not always in a book. Sometimes you have to figure it out for yourself.

Thanks for your insights. Glad your process is working for you. I don’t do fruited beers at this point but will consider your post if I do.

 

[pdxal]

Coonmanx- probably not getting many posts because many on here don't bother with secondary anymore.

 

[bkboiler]

this is good information thanks for sharing.
I don't bother with secondary for hops, oak or other things but still would have for fruit...BUT NOT ANYMORE SINCE I READ THIS. So thanks!

 

[IslandLizard]

How long do you keep the fruited beer in the primary, before transferring to a secondary?

Why not leave the beer in the primary for the same time as you would in a secondary? It will all settle out. Then rack the clear beer off the top, leaving the trub and fruit pulp behind. Do you think the beer would be less clear?

Transferring beer should be ideally done under CO2 (or N2) to prevent oxidation. Racking into a secondary vessel full of air exposes the beer to the oxygen it contains. Air (oxygen) exposure is detrimental to beer after fermentation has started due to oxidation, dulling flavors and aromas over time, among other unwanted side effects. That's why closed transfers are recommended. Such as into 100% liquid pre-purged kegs* before filling them through the liquid post. The keg remains closed (lid stays on) in that scenario until the next cleaning.

* One of the common methods to 100% liquid prepurge a keg is, after cleaning and sanitizing, fill the keg with Starsan (or water) all the way. Then push all the Starsan out with CO2. You're left with a keg 100% filled with CO2, at the cost of around 7-11 gallons of CO2 gas, depending on the pressure it's filled with. The lid remains on until next cleaning.

A secondary carboy (glass or plastic) could be pre-purged and filled similarly, but with far less pressure of course, using a double drilled stopper or carboy cap and a racking cane as dip tube. Stopper/cap stays on until replaced with airlock or blow off.

Or use a pre-purged keg as secondary.

 

[bkboiler]

ooh...I bet if it wasn't a lot of puree I could even rig up some magnets to hold some stainless cups near the top inside my fermenter and then just turn them over (using the magnets) so I don't have to open the lid.

I have a few stainless "barista canisters" used to shake cocoa powder and cinnamon, I could use without the top of course...

 

[coonmanx]

How long do you keep the fruited beer in the primary, before transferring to a secondary?

Why not leave the beer in the primary for the same time as you would in a secondary? It will all settle out. Then rack the clear beer off the top, leaving the trub and fruit pulp behind. Do you think the beer would be less clear?

Transferring beer should be ideally done under CO2 (or N2) to prevent oxidation. Racking into a secondary vessel full of air exposes the beer to the oxygen it contains. Air (oxygen) exposure is detrimental to beer after fermentation has started due to oxidation, dulling flavors and aromas over time, among other unwanted side effects. That's why closed transfers are recommended. Such as into 100% liquid pre-purged kegs* before filling them through the liquid post. The keg remains closed (lid stays on) in that scenario until the next cleaning.

* One of the common methods to 100% liquid prepurge a keg is, after cleaning and sanitizing, fill the keg with Starsan (or water) all the way. Then push all the Starsan out with CO2. You're left with a keg 100% filled with CO2, at the cost of around 7-11 gallons of CO2 gas, depending on the pressure it's filled with. The lid remains on until next cleaning.

A secondary carboy (glass or plastic) could be pre-purged and filled similarly, but with far less pressure of course, using a double drilled stopper or carboy cap and a racking cane as dip tube. Stopper/cap stays on until replaced with airlock or blow off.

Or use a pre-purged keg as secondary.

I really don't worry about all that. I am old school and there is still some CO2 coming off when I transfer to secondary. So that small amount of air that is in the secondary will disappear quite quickly. I know that some will disagree about how long to leave the beer in primary.

I usually siphon the beer to secondary as soon as primary has crashed. That could be in two days if primary went blowing through because temps were a bit higher or I used a very active yeast. It could also be as long as week. But when the head crashes on primary it goes right into secondary.

For the Strawberry ESB that I am doing I brewed it on Friday and just put the strawberry puree in today. So that was 3 days time. Will wait and see how long the reactivated fermentation lasts and then it will go to secondary. I might even be going to secondary as soon as 2 days from now. I don't think that letting it sit on the fruit does a whole lot. Once it has eaten up all the sugars in the fruit I think that most of that fruit flavor has already transfered to the beer.

 

[coonmanx]

Coonmanx- probably not getting many posts because many on here don't bother with secondary anymore.

That is interesting. I am old school so I still do things the same way. Also I would think that racking to secondary would result in a lot less sediment. Since I now prime my kegs that is important to me.

 

[coonmanx]

Thanks for your insights. Glad your process is working for you. I don’t do fruited beers at this point but will consider your post if I do.

I always think that the fruit flavor should be in the background. You should taste it but you should also taste the beer itself first. New Belgium used to make a dark cherry ale that was delicious but then they stopped brewing it. I really liked that and it got me thinking about what a fruit beer should taste like.

 

[coonmanx]

ooh...I bet if it wasn't a lot of puree I could even rig up some magnets to hold some stainless cups near the top inside my fermenter and then just turn them over (using the magnets) so I don't have to open the lid.

I have a few stainless "barista canisters" used to shake cocoa powder and cinnamon, I could use without the top of course...

Opening the primary to add in some fruit puree isn't really too big of a deal. I removed the fermentation lock, put the funnel in place and then covered that with a little bit of plastic wrap until I could pour the puree in. There is still a layer of CO2 on top of the beer protecting it and some positive pressure from that. So don't worry. Have a homebrew. Isn't that what Charlie Papazian would always say....

 

[coonmanx]

So I let the beer talk to me and tell me when to transfer to secondary. And that point is when the bubbles go to one per minute or less in the S-shaped fermentation lock. It is there today so tonight it goes to secondary after only having the fruit puree in there for just over two days.

Party on Wayne!

I will report back on the strawberry flavor as I always have to do some sampling when transferring to secondary.

 

[coonmanx]

So the beer now has a wonderful strawberry aroma to it. Not a whole lot of strawberry flavor but that is OK. Strawberry is a bit of a hard one for sure. Now I just have to wait until I want to keg it up. That could be a while right now. I'm used to taking my kegs out to the disc golf league where there are plenty of willing taste testers and right now those leagues are not even happening. Who knows? If I have to spend any more time at the apartment it may be a good time to become an alcoholic. LOL.

 

[coonmanx]

Thought I should also post up a photo of the secondary. Still a small amount of CO2 coming off so that should purge any air out of the headspace. Clearing nicely and it looks good. I didn't get the hose into the top of the carboy very quickly last night so there is a bit of dried beer on the inside of the carboy neck. LOL.

 

[dnr]

This might come in very handy.
I think I've asked OP about a similar issue in a different thread.

 

[bleme]

Opening the primary to add in some fruit puree isn't really too big of a deal. I removed the fermentation lock, put the funnel in place and then covered that with a little bit of plastic wrap until I could pour the puree in. There is still a layer of CO2 on top of the beer protecting it and some positive pressure from that. So don't worry. Have a homebrew. Isn't that what Charlie Papazian would always say....

The "CO2 blanket" is an old homebrewers myth that has been disproven. In fact, gases mix readily at any opportunity, which is good for us because otherwise we'd all have to move to Denver for some oxygen. The good news is that the fruit should produce plenty of CO2 to re-purge the fermentor and the active yeast will scavenge all the O2 they can find.

 

[coonmanx]

Correct. Adding the fruit puree will once again kick in the fermentation process and any oxygen in there would be displaced or used up rather rapidly.

 

[IslandLizard]

Which brand and what form (whole, frozen, etc.) of fruit purees are you adding?

 

[coonmanx]

Which brand and what form (whole, frozen, etc.) of fruit purees are you adding?

Vintner's Harvest puree in a can. 49 oz. This time I added the full 49 oz. because strawberry is a bit of a mild flavor. When I did apricot puree I saved out 2 cups of puree which I then turned into pancake syrup by adding some extra sugar and spices and cooking down. Apricot is a stronger fruit flavor and I didn't want to overdo it.

 

[day_trippr]

$10 a pound. Woof.

fwiw, I prefer fermenting the base beer down to a few points of FG then racking atop a fresh secondary holding the puree..

Cheers!

 

[coonmanx]

$10 a pound. Woof.

fwiw, I prefer fermenting the base beer down to a few points of FG then racking atop a fresh secondary holding the puree..

Cheers!

I used to do that but found I could get better results by simply waiting until primary crashes (same as fermenting down to a few points of FG) and then pouring the puree into the primary. This has two advantages. First there is no need for a blowoff hose on the secondary. Second you don't have all of that sediment in secondary. And finally I have had fermentations go on for a long time when siphoning the beer on top of the puree in secondary. Sometimes it would keep going for a month or more. When it gets added to primary I can then siphon over into secondary in a matter of days, not weeks. And the results are just as good if not better. This last batch I siphoned to secondary only two and a half days after adding the fruit puree to primary.

 

[coonmanx]

I also now get more beer into the keg because there is less sediment in the secondary.

 

[coonmanx]

That fruit puree is not cheap anymore. I believe the apricot puree was almost $30. I got the strawberry puree for free because the Ebay seller did a terrible job of packing and the can arrived with a huge dent in it. LOL. It still worked just fine but I complained to the seller who said they always do it that way to save on shipping costs. Not the best idea....

 

[day_trippr]

I used to do that but found I could get better results by simply waiting until primary crashes (same as fermenting down to a few points of FG) and then pouring the puree into the primary. This has two advantages. First there is no need for a blowoff hose on the secondary. Second you don't have all of that sediment in secondary.[...]

So, if I'm getting this right, you added your puree to the primary - and then at some point racked to another vessel?

fwiw, I didn't need a blow-off on the secondary vessels. While they definitely kicked up with the fruit addition, it was quite tame...

Cheers!

 

[coonmanx]

So, if I'm getting this right, you added your puree to the primary - and then at some point racked to another vessel?

fwiw, I didn't need a blow-off on the secondary vessels. While they definitely kicked up with the fruit addition, it was quite tame...

View attachment 674759

Cheers!

Looks like you are using a bigger vessel for secondary. When I go to secondary it gets filled all of the way into the neck of a 5 gallon carboy. So then I do need a blow off tube if I were to siphon on top of some puree. I also use secondary as a means to settle and clear the beer. So I don't like all of that sediment in the secondary. Just saying. My 5 gallon secondary then gives me just the right amount to fill the keg to the top. And I prime my kegs now.

And yes, once I see that the foam has crashed on primary, I pull off the fermentation lock, put a sterilized funnel in the carboy mouth and dump in the puree. It reactivates the yeast for a few days and then when that subsides I go to secondary for settling and clearing. Works great.

It also looks like you are making a pretty big batch.

 

[coonmanx]

I like the marks on the side of the carboy. Very nice.

 

[day_trippr]

It was a 10 gallon batch. And those masking tapes are almost 16 years old now (somewhat amazing to me).

Anyway, yeah, I can see using 5 gallon carboys changes things - like headspace I only have one five gallon carboy, the other six are all italian 6.5's, so I have to make do. On the up side I don't do long "secondaries", just four days for this batch plus a couple days cold-crashing...

Cheers!

 

[enkamania]

That's what I have done in the past. This year, I might try adding to the keg and add a spunding valve.

 

[lapolvora]

I used to do that. I would put it into secondary and then add a blowoff tube. Now I simply wait until primary crashes and then add it to the carboy. It will become active for a couple of days and then settle back down. At that point it can go into secondary and you don't have all of that sediment. I have been using this method for a while now with no loss of fruit flavor in the beer. I recently did an Apricot Honey Ale that way and then Mango Honey Ale. The mango came out a bit subdued but excellent. The Apricot Honey Ale was on point and I didn't even use a full can of the puree. The Mango Honey Ale lasted just over 24 hours when I shared it with friends. Today I am going for a Strawberry ESB. Not sure what to expect as people say that strawberry comes out more subdued as a fruit flavor. But that is OK since I want the fruit to be a secondary flavor to the beer itself. I once poured a six pack of Sam Adams Cherry Wheat down the drain because it tasted like cough syrup. LOL.

I'm trying your method with blueberries tomorrow... and I have a batch planned for the weekend that I want to use some frozen mangoes.. so how much of it you usually add?
thanks for sharing.

 

[coonmanx]

I'm trying your method with blueberries tomorrow... and I have a batch planned for the weekend that I want to use some frozen mangoes.. so how much of it you usually add?
thanks for sharing.

Well, I am always using a 49 oz. can of the Vintner's harvest fruit puree. Sometimes I simply pour in the entire can and sometimes I use maybe a cup or two less. Best of luck and let us know how it turns out.

I like using the Vintners Harvest puree because it is so convenient and they come in a large variety of fruits. How are you doing the blueberries? Are they fresh, frozen or something else?

 

[coonmanx]

I'm trying your method with blueberries tomorrow... and I have a batch planned for the weekend that I want to use some frozen mangoes.. so how much of it you usually add?
thanks for sharing.

Also let me know how the mango batch turns out. I recently made both an Apricot Honey Ale and then a Mango Honey Ale using the same base recipe. In the Apricot Honey Ale I held out two cups of the puree and yet the apricot flavor was on point. When I did the same using the mango puree, the mango flavor was there but a bit subdued. So it would be great if you let me know exactly how much mango you use and how it turns out on flavor.

 

[marc1]

So, if I'm getting this right, you added your puree to the primary - and then at some point racked to another vessel?

fwiw, I didn't need a blow-off on the secondary vessels. While they definitely kicked up with the fruit addition, it was quite tame...

View attachment 674759

Cheers!

Tell me about your plywood fridge shelf! That looks much sturdier than the regular glass bottom in mine.

 

[day_trippr]

Well, it's 3/4" chinese plywood, nothing special, cut to fit the contours and convenient ledges that held the glass shelf with the integrated veggie/fruit bin slides. There are a couple of large holes I bored at the back right for some circulation from my little fan and reptile heater bulb box at the bottom.

I have three full-size top-freezer fridges in the brewery and made similar 3/4" plywood platforms for each. Two of them picked up molded shelf supports, the third one (ironically, the 22 cu unit, vs the two 17s) the bottom shelf supports were too high up to allow a corny keg plus gas QD to fit comfortably, so that one relies on supporting risers that rest on the floor and compressor hump.

I've had 5 full kegs in each of the 17's and 6 (like, right now) in the 22. That's somewhere around 250 and 300 pounds, respectively. Pretty certain the oem glass shelves wouldn't put up with that loading

Cheers!

 

[bleme]

I made a plywood shelf in my fermentor chamber also, and after a while it started growing mold so I wrapped it with contact paper. No more mold after 5 years now.

 

[madscientist451]

A bit surprised that nobody has commented on the substance of this post. I only recently started doing this and found the results to be just as good or better than siphoning the beer on top of the puree in the secondary.
You can teach an old dog new tricks. I have been brewing for over thirty years and only recently discovered this method. It's not always in a book. Sometimes you have to figure it out for yourself.

Thanks for posting your results. I do it both ways, I usually transfer off the primary yeast if I'm trying to save it for a re-pitch. I'm currently working on a peach/wheat ale (peaches evicted from the freezer because of COVID-19) that I was going to rack to secondary but now I'll just dump the peaches in and hope for the best.

 

[coonmanx]

Thanks for posting your results. I do it both ways, I usually transfer off the primary yeast if I'm trying to save it for a re-pitch. I'm currently working on a peach/wheat ale (peaches evicted from the freezer because of COVID-19) that I was going to rack to secondary but now I'll just dump the peaches in and hope for the best.

Give it a shot and then rack to secondary. Be sure to report the results.

 

[Lefou]

"I once poured a six pack of Sam Adams Cherry Wheat down the drain because it tasted like cough syrup."

That's one of my biggest gripes with Sam Adams. IMO, they love adding a bit much caramel malt in some of their imbalanced recipes but others are done right. There has to be a good balance between the taste and the mess, right?
I've been toying with how to best approach fruited wort with a high percentage of wheat without dealing with a stuck mash, a mess of trub in the carboy, and a highly attenuated beer that isn't thin. Good thread, thanks.