dont let me screw up this starter

[yeasty]

gonna make the AHS summit IPA this weekend. they sent two vials of WLP100. i have palmers book but i want to hear from you guys about what to do. how much DME or LME ? how long do i wait ? do i pitch the whole thing or just the slurry ?

 

[flyangler18]

You want to make a 1.030 - 1.040 wort, using enough DME to get you there. The simplest way to remember is using metric: 100g of DME to 1000mL water. Boil 5-10 minutes to pasteurize, cool to approx 70 degrees and pitch the yeast. Don't use an airlock, rather loosely cover the opening of your container with a sanitized piece of aluminum foil; the yeast need oxygen for reproduction. Shake the snot out of it as frequently as you can in the absence of a stir plate.

Also, consult the pitching rate calculator on Mr. Malty to determine the appropriate number of cells you need to properly inoculate your 5 gallons of wort.

Two days prior to brewing is sufficient for the yeast to completely ferment out. You can pitch the entire volume or crash chill, decant the spent beer and just pitch the slurry. Your choice. I prefer to just pitch the slurry.

I also recommend giving this podcast a listen. Lots of excellent information here.

 

[yeasty]

dont get me wrong. i am going to make a starter, but that all sounds pretty complicated compared to the instructions on the vial. it says you only need one vial for 5gal...do i still need to make a starter if i am going to pitch two vials ? it is a 1.072 OG brew.

 

[flyangler18]

do i still need to make a starter if i am going to pitch two vials ? it is a 1.072 OG brew.

Did you check out the pitching rate calculator?

 

[yeasty]

yeah thats cool. why do they send two vials then ? why not three and be done with it ? or just one and require a starter ? sorry...just trying to understand.

 

[Brew-boy]

Save the one vial for another batch and learn to make a starter with this one vial. The most important this is to Pitch the proper amount of Healthy yeast. You will not get that from just one vial.

 

[yeasty]

so i can use just one for the starter and as long as its a healthy starter i am ok to save the second vial for another day. i like that idea.

 

[BobOscarBob]

Yep - and its WLP001 California Ale yeast. AHS sends 2 as they suggest pitching 2 for gravities over 1.060 (you can pitch two or make a starter) - probably a bit easier than giving instructions and including DME for a starter...

 

[yeasty]

mr malty says i need like 2.7 vials...can i really just dump the two vials in if i want to be lazy ?

 

[double_e5]

mr malty says i need like 2.7 vials...can i really just dump the two vials in if i want to be lazy ?

Are you just looking for an accomplice here? Several people have told you what you should do.

It's your beer. You paid for both vials of yeast. You can go at it any way you would like.

 

[Mesa512]

instead of making another thread my question is related to yeast starters.

The DME that everyone keeps referring to...this is the DME that comes with the kit is that correct? If so then I just save the rest and add whatever I have left when appropriate when making the beer. Thanks

 

[JLem]

instead of making another thread my question is related to yeast starters.

The DME that everyone keeps referring to...this is the DME that comes with the kit is that correct? If so then I just save the rest and add whatever I have left when appropriate when making the beer. Thanks

Chances are, you don't have extra DME with the kit. They don't intend for you to make a starter, so don't give you DME to make one. If you use that DME, you'll end up with less in the wort, which will drop your OG, and thus, your ABV. Not by much if you only use 4 oz for the starter, but both will be lower than your target.

EDIT: Actually, if you pitch the entire starter, without decanting, I guess all the DME ends up in the beer afterall, so you won't really lose much at all. Right?

 

[yeasty]

Are you just looking for an accomplice here? Several people have told you what you should do.

It's your beer. You paid for both vials of yeast. You can go at it any way you would like.

i am not sure what you are implying here. i am just trying to sort through all the advice.

1.mr malty 2.7 vials ?
2.kit sends 2 to pitch ?
3.make starter with 1 ?
4.make starter with 2 ?
5.yeast says use starter if over 1.060 OG
(does that mean 1 or 2 vials) ?
6.pitch the whole starter ?
7.pitch just the slurry ?
8.need i go on ?

of course without the forum i would just do what i think
is right...live and learn. but the forum is here and i wish
to learn a little before i destroy this $60.00 kit. i am sure
no matter what i do i will hear AFTER i did it what i did
wrong. i am just trying to hear it all up front...you dig ?

 

[beersydoesit]

Yeah, a lot of conflicting advice. If you dig deeper it doesn't really get much better.
Bottom line is you have to figure out what works for you.

If you make a starter, one tube or two will change the amount of cell reproduction needed to hit the mrmalty pitch rate. That's all.

Pitch the whole starter or just the slurry. How much liquid do you want to add? It is up to you you'll get good beer either way.

Some folks are very fussy and precise, others less so.
The frustration and the splendor is that you learn to do it your way.

Best of luck and don't worry. None of the decisions you outlined will cause bad beer.

Regards

 

[double_e5]

i am not sure what you are implying here. i am just trying to sort through all the advice.

This comment leads me to believe you were fishing for someone to say, "Yeah, just go ahead and pitch both vials":

mr malty says i need like 2.7 vials...can i really just dump the two vials in if i want to be lazy ?

1.mr malty 2.7 vials ?
2.kit sends 2 to pitch ?
3.make starter with 1 ?
4.make starter with 2 ?
5.yeast says use starter if over 1.060 OG
(does that mean 1 or 2 vials) ?
6.pitch the whole starter ?
7.pitch just the slurry ?
8.need i go on ?

of course without the forum i would just do what i think
is right...live and learn. but the forum is here and i wish
to learn a little before i destroy this $60.00 kit. i am sure
no matter what i do i will hear AFTER i did it what i did
wrong. i am just trying to hear it all up front...you dig ?

I'm not sure what advice you are having to sift through, but I'll answer your questions.

1. Mr. Malty's Pitching Rate Calculator is just that. It tells you the correct amount of yeast to pitch.

2. BobOscarBob gave you a great answer.

3. Yes.

4. If you don't know the answer to this question, you don't understand the purpose of a starter. You need to do some research. flyangler18 gave you a great link. You should give it a listen.

5. Refer to answer 4.

6. As flyangler18 already said it's your decision. You are not going to find a clear cut answer.

7. Refer to answer 6.

8. I'm not sure what you are confused about. There is a lot of good advice in this thread. It's ultimately your decision on what to do. If you have more questions, by all means go ahead and ask.

 

[Mesa512]

Chances are, you don't have extra DME with the kit. They don't intend for you to make a starter, so don't give you DME to make one. If you use that DME, you'll end up with less in the wort, which will drop your OG, and thus, your ABV. Not by much if you only use 4 oz for the starter, but both will be lower than your target.

EDIT: Actually, if you pitch the entire starter, without decanting, I guess all the DME ends up in the beer afterall, so you won't really lose much at all. Right?

Yeah. That was my logic. Anyone else want to comment?

 

[yeasty]

1. if mr malty is a pitching rate calculator that is accurate then why is there a different amount in my kit ?

2. he said to pitch two because its easier for the kit manufacture do send two instead of a starter "kit". does not seem like the right approach just because it is easier.

3 you say make starter with one (how will i know the count is high enough)

4. wont two vials ensure there are enough yeast cells if i use two for a starter (the yeast vials only say to make a starter if its over 1.060)

5. its my first real starter and may not be perfect...wouldnt 2 be better ?

6. i guess i will figure this one out by trial and error

7. no pros and cons offered ?

8. confused ? well how about "unsure" then. a lot of good advice yes, and i appreciate it GREATLY ! but like you said no clear cut answers. i am beginning to believe brewing is an art not a science. in art there are no right answers, ever.

 

[beersydoesit]

It is an art, but as in art there are right answers. Blue isn't yellow, rough isn't smooth.
In beer there are lots of ways to do things.
MrMalty will tell you the accepted amount of yeast. Follow the instructions and you'll pitch correctly. But yeast is alive, if you pitch less it will grow into enough, tho it might make fruity flavors. Maybe you'll notice, maybe not.

1. I don't always follow mrmalty to the letter, it isn't holy writ, just good safe practice.
2. It is close and easy. If you pitch two you'll have good beer and come back for more. If you make a starter you may have better beer, maybe you'll notice maybe not, but it can be scary for a new brewer. The kit providers want you to succeed and not be put off by complications.
3. MrMalty will tell you. There is also a very good guide on that web site.
4. With two you still have less that the accepted amount so you have to grow yeast. So the only question is how much to grow. Again mrmalty covers that.
5. Starters are easy. As long as you don't contaminate it and follow the recipe you'll be fine.
6. I love my errors. Your beer will be good either way. It may be better with a big starter, you may not notice. You do have to learn as you go.
7. Reproducing yeast cause fusel alcohols and fruity flavors under pitching means more, proper pitching less. There is a pro and con right? Over pitching, (Almost never a problem can cause weak, thin flavors.)
Starters are easy and can assure you have enough yeast. (pro) It isn't impossible to mess them up, and they take a few days (con)
8. good luck and don't worry.

 

[yeasty]

thanks for the input. i will be making a starter with one vial. i also beg to differ....there are NO rules or right answers in art. if i can show you how to feel that yellow is blue or that rough can feel smooth then as an artist i have come as close to perfection as i can !
someone told me today that brewers who treat it as all science and take scrupulous notes and measurements are no better brewers than those who scoff at all the "rules" and brew intuitively. its the balance in the middle that makes the best brew.....i believe this to be true.