Does water profile affect extract brews?

[KVANTAN]

So long as you dont have a specialty grain that you BIAB?

 

[JLeuck64]

I am of the opinion that... extract effects extract brews! I know that's a really sore topic with those folks that brew successfully with extract but I gave it a try. I gave it a REALLY good try ( like 30 batches ) and I just couldn't get them to taste right... My hat is off to those of you that can, I just couldn't figure it out ( :

I switched over to all grain and the taste improved immensely, with the same water I was previously using in the extract batches.

If you are currently brewing full volume extract batches with say some steeping grains or perhaps doing mini mashes with those grains... I want to encourage you to seriously consider making the jump to all grain! At the least watch someone do an all grain batch. It's the same process as a mini mash, just more grain, a larger mash tun, more water... then the rest is the same ( ;

 

[Cyclman]

Since extract is in essence dehydrated wort, water doesn't matter. Well, now that I've said that, what I mean is, you can use distilled water, everything wort needs is already in the extract. If you use water with chlorine / chloramine, or bad tasting water, or softened / salty water, it can ruin the beer. So, the water can't be one that will wreck the beer, but you don't require any profile to make extract.

 

[aeviaanah]

If you made your own extract would the water profile you used to make the extract matter in the finished product?

 

[KVANTAN]

Thanks for the replies. Laughing at myself for not realizing it sooner but thats brewing. I will probably go AG soon. Its a time thing. I have two wild assed toddlers. I make some good beers that i really enjoy, with DME extract plus a specialty lb of grain, and so does everyone else who shares them.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Since extract is in essence dehydrated wort, water doesn't matter. Well, now that I've said that, what I mean is, you can use distilled water, everything wort needs is already in the extract. If you use water with chlorine / chloramine, or bad tasting water, or softened / salty water, it can ruin the beer. So, the water can't be one that will wreck the beer, but you don't require any profile to make extract.

There's this.

But there's also buffering factors too. You can impact the flavor of extract beer with water additives just like to can with all-grain, for better or for worse. You just don't have to worry about the mash chemistry. Generally with extract beers pH isn't an issue, but certain additives (like chalk or baking soda) can impact the wort and beer pH which can have a notable impact on flavor (although I have no idea why you'd be adding those to the kettle, for the record). There's also still potential impact from addition of things like sulfates or chloride. Even with extract kits, adding some gypsum to an IPA recipe isn't unheard of.

So long story short, from an off-flavor perspective, yes water still matters greatly for extract beer. From a more general flavor perspective, water can have an impact. But it's nowhere near as important as it is with all-grain.

 

[mabrungard]

In making the extract, the only thing that was removed was the water. The ions in that water remain with the extract. Ideally for brewing, you only want to add back the pure water that was taken out when the extract was created. That will recreate the original ionic content that the malt producer used in the mash. More than likely, that is a fairly modest ionic content. If you want to add more chloride or sulfate salts to accentuate certain character in your beer, you are free to do so.

By the way, Briess extract has a BUNCH of sodium in it due to the fact that the local water supply is softened by ion-exchange process. You may want to consider another extract supplier if high sodium will affect the way you want your beer to end up.

 

[Homercidal]

In making the extract, the only thing that was removed was the water. The ions in that water remain with the extract. Ideally for brewing, you only want to add back the pure water that was taken out when the extract was created. That will recreate the original ionic content that the malt producer used in the mash. More than likely, that is a fairly modest ionic content. If you want to add more chloride or sulfate salts to accentuate certain character in your beer, you are free to do so.

By the way, Briess extract has a BUNCH of sodium in it due to the fact that the local water supply is softened by ion-exchange process. You may want to consider another extract supplier if high sodium will affect the way you want your beer to end up.

Wow! Good to know about the sodium!

 

[Cyclman]

Could it be the sodium that causes the infamous "extract twang"?

 

[mabrungard]

Could it be the sodium that causes the infamous "extract twang"?

I guess its possible, but I don't know. I don't find that sodium creates a 'twang'. It tends to be sweet at modest levels and salty at higher levels.

 

[Mexibilly]

I brewed my first extract with softened tap water and it wasn't very good.
Tried mineral water next and the flavor was off again.
Tried distilled water and my beer improved significantly.
I now use the charcoal filtered, ultraviolet, RO water from Kroger for extracts.
$1.99 for a 5 gallon refill that is close to 5.5 when filled to the top.
$.39 for a 1 gallon refill and $.97 for a fresh gallon of distilled in case top off is required.
I'm no judge, but I think my neutral water extracts are really good.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

Water does matter!

Don't add any water to an extract brew that you wouldn't want to mash with. I used tap water when I did my first extract batches....and the beer was good. After a couple of years, the water source for the town changed and the beer became undrinkable. Figured this out after a too long...

Anyhow, the general rule of thumb is that any water that tastes good should be OK to brew with, but some are better than others for sure.

Using spring water should work fine. Distilled? Never tried it straight before but i would guess for reasons mentioned above would work. Tap water should be boiled but hardness should be taken into consideration.

 

[beardown2489]

Want to brew a traditional Pilsner. Should I be looking up water profiles for Germany and the c republic? Or should I just go with distilled water the first time around and see how it goes?

Living in Chicago. Water source is Lake Michigan. Id have to request info from the city of Glen Ellyn to know the specifics but I've been told many times Chicago water isn't bad to brew with. Just don't know if it's decent for a Pilsner

 

[Qhrumphf]

Want to brew a traditional Pilsner. Should I be looking up water profiles for Germany and the c republic? Or should I just go with distilled water the first time around and see how it goes?

Living in Chicago. Water source is Lake Michigan. If have to request info from the Glen Ellyn to know the specifics but I've been told many times Chicago water isn't bad to brew with

Plzn water is RO-level of minerals. Distilled will actually work very well for that, I would just supplement w/ yeast nutrient.

 

[beardown2489]

Well thank you very much sir!

 

[BrewsterFish]

I'm glad I saw this. I'll be brewing an Fresh Squeezed extract clone tomorrow. The recipe I got from HBA says to use gypsum, but I'm not sure I need it. There are some specialty grains.
I am up in Portland, Oregon and hear our water is pretty good though.

I am not sure if I should at the gypsum for the sake of the hops.

 

[Mismost]

Water effects the brews at my house. On a well and use a water softener. Every beer had a "flavor line" (hard to describe...not terrible, but there) when brewed using house tap water....I know (now) don't use water from a water softened source.

Then I did a Heff with distilled, really good. Then a Pilsner with bottled spring water, also an improvement. Brewed an IPA yesterday using straight run well water...we will see.

Water is one of things I have got to learn about and sort out. But, IMO, the old saying "if it tastes good, it'll make good beer" is simply not always true in my experience. Water is the major component in beer, makes sense that it should be as correct as possible.

 

[mabrungard]

The old saying should be: "If it tastes good, it will make beer" but there is no guarantee that it will even be good. Even with extract, you need to worry about alkalinity of the water. While distilled water is what was taken away from the extract when it was concentrated, you can still screw it up if you have the wrong stuff in the water when you are brewing. Spring water is probably NOT the right water to use (unless its almost mineral-free).