Do Stouts really pour slower?

[jvcjbl]

I just brewed and kegged an Imperial Stout. Upon my first pour at the same PSI I usually serve at, I noticed it pouring very slow. Is this normal for a stout? I mean it is almost 1/2 the pour rate of the English Pale Ale I have one tap next to it. I am using a Perl!ck 525ss faucet and dismantled the entire corney for blockage just to be safe. I think I may dismantle my faucet since my last beer was heavily hopped and kept plugging the out line... maybe some worked its way up to the faucet

 

[manoaction]

I very seriously doubt that it has anything to do with it being a stout. I would second your motion to check your taps and lines for obstructions.

Did they height of the tap handle or keg change? Temp is the same?

 

[jvcjbl]

I very seriously doubt that it has anything to do with it being a stout. I would second your motion to check your taps and lines for obstructions.

Did they height of the tap handle or keg change? Temp is the same?

NOTHING changed. I kept getting hop material clogging the out line (last IPA) and blocking the tube where the quick disconnect connects since it obviously can't make its way past the quick disconnect. If it had maybe the ball pivot of the faucet is clogged. That would be the only other blockage point since I tore the entire keg apart and cleaned it before kegging. When I was flushing the system with PBW and Star Sans I noticed it kinda hesitate so maybe I introduced something at the faucet. I will tear apart in a couple minutes and report.

 

[jvcjbl]

Ok so I took the faucet apart... nothing. Switched the faucets... 425ss for 525ss... nothing. The beer on the left still flows 2x as fast. I am starting to attribute it to this beer being substantially thicker. I took the keg apart again... switched the post springs and checked the tubes... nothing. I even switched the Co2 lines and I will let it sit again for a few mins then test again. The Co2 that was connected to the Ale seemed to have more flow behind it. One thing I noticed is that maybe it is the stout keg is fuller but it only takes a couple seconds to relieve all the pressure. The other keg (ale) which is about a gallon or gallon and a half less takes upwards of 10-12 seconds to deplete the c02 versus 2-3 on the stout. Is the due to the space or the fact that the ale has absorbed more Co2? Could absorbed Co2 have an effect on flow rate? This stout has only been kegged a day and a half

 

[mcl]

Switch the kegs and report on the results.

 

[wonderbread23]

Is your CO2 tank empty or very low?

 

[IrregularPulse]

Ok so I took the faucet apart... nothing. Switched the faucets... 425ss for 525ss... nothing. The beer on the left still flows 2x as fast. I am starting to attribute it to this beer being substantially thicker. I took the keg apart again... switched the post springs and checked the tubes... nothing. I even switched the Co2 lines and I will let it sit again for a few mins then test again. The Co2 that was connected to the Ale seemed to have more flow behind it. One thing I noticed is that maybe it is the stout keg is fuller but it only takes a couple seconds to relieve all the pressure. The other keg (ale) which is about a gallon or gallon and a half less takes upwards of 10-12 seconds to deplete the c02 versus 2-3 on the stout. Is the due to the space or the fact that the ale has absorbed more Co2? Could absorbed Co2 have an effect on flow rate? This stout has only been kegged a day and a half

The emptier keg is going to have much more head space thus taking more tie to vent.
A stout hooked up to the same lines should not pour any noticeably slower than a Pale Ale. You've go you have a blockage somewhere.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Ever noticed that engine oils of different weight pour at different speeds when it's cold? It's called viscosity, and beers of higher gravity and FG will pour slower. Not a big deal really.

M_C

 

[jvcjbl]

Ever noticed that engine oils of different weight pour at different speeds when it's cold? It's called viscosity, and beers of higher gravity and FG will pour slower. Not a big deal really.

M_C

That is what I was thinking... the FG of this Imperial Stout was 1.030 and the Ale was 1.014. The OG of the stout was 1.100

 

[remilard]

I've noticed more viscous stuff pours slowly, but not a factor of 2 I don't think.

FG is not the only thing impacting viscosity. Beta glucans from unmalted grains (or even malted rye) can impact viscosity.

 

[garcara]

Are the two beer lines the same length?

 

[IrregularPulse]

I can't imagine a notable speed difference between an FG of 1030 and 1014. You still have the same pressure behind them pushing them out. You're comparing a gravity of 1.030 to oil at 1.800.

 

[jvcjbl]

Are the two beer lines the same length?

Everything is equal as far as length/pressure/temp...etc... only difference is one is a 425ss and one is a 525ss. I switched the faucets and nothing changed as far as speed on the "slow" side. I always have two beers on tap and this is the FIRST time I've noticed this. I flushed the lines (thought it was blocked in the tower at the shank) and everything, I can't imagine at this point what would be restricting it other than the difference in thickness, which I can't wrap my head around. I agree there has to be a blockage, but I've dismantled everything and cleaned everything out, so I don't know where it could still be.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Everything is equal as far as length/pressure/temp...etc... only difference is one is a 425ss and one is a 525ss. I switched the faucets and nothing changed as far as speed on the "slow" side. I always have two beers on tap and this is the FIRST time I've noticed this. I flushed the lines (thought it was blocked in the tower at the shank) and everything, I can't imagine at this point what would be restricting it other than the difference in thickness, which I can't wrap my head around. I agree there has to be a blockage, but I've dismantled everything and cleaned everything out, so I don't know where it could still be.

Could be something with the keg itself. A slightly bent dip tube, a blockage in the dip tube... Something. You shouldn't be seeing a reduction in pour speed like that. While a 1.030 beer is pretty viscous, it isn't enough to slow it down like you mentioned.

 

[jvcjbl]

Could be something with the keg itself. A slightly bent dip tube, a blockage in the dip tube... Something. You shouldn't be seeing a reduction in pour speed like that. While a 1.030 beer is pretty viscous, it isn't enough to slow it down like you mentioned.

I dismantled the keg removed the dip tube and flushed it... hell I even blew through it and nothing. I am going to switch kegs and see if that makes a difference... if it does, then it is something with the keg itself.... which makes no sense as the last batch was fine.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Fill a keg with water and push it through both taps at the same PSI to compare and go from there.

M_C

I dismantled the keg removed the dip tube and flushed it... hell I even blew through it and nothing. I am going to switch kegs and see if that makes a difference... if it does, then it is something with the keg itself.... which makes no sense as the last batch was fine.

 

[jvcjbl]

Fill a keg with water and push it through both taps at the same PSI to compare and go from there.

M_C

I don't have a spare keg... also, I ran star sans pressurized through the keg/tap/lines and to my best memory don't recall any slow down.

 

[jvcjbl]

Switched the kegs and the ale seems to still pour faster. Could the lesser amount of beer attribute to this? Could the fact that the ale is way more carbonated cause it to flow faster? I am thinking out loud here as I am baffled.... then again this is my only stout I've ever kegged.

 

[malkore]

Ever noticed that engine oils of different weight pour at different speeds when it's cold? It's called viscosity, and beers of higher gravity and FG will pour slower. Not a big deal really.

M_C

Except you are comparing motor oil to beer that, in terms of viscosity, has significantly less difference.

Its not like his stout is thick as a milkshake, as compared to 0.990 dry champagne.

a 1.020 stout pour should not pour differently than a 1.010 pilsner.

 

[jvcjbl]

I recorded a video and to me they are exactly the same as far as speed. Maybe I was just getting a placebo effect due to the lack of head on the stout. I will post it in a second. Video got cut off at the end do to SWMBO calling me.

 

[jvcjbl]

Here is the video... guess I was just interrupting the head forming as a "faster pour".

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Came across this one and have to see the final result!

EDIT: Ah, nice you posted before I did ^_^ Looks pretty dang similar to me.

 

[jvcjbl]

Came across this one and have to see the final result!

EDIT: Ah, nice you posted before I did ^_^ Looks pretty dang similar to me.

Yeah it is.... making me wonder if I should up the Co2 a bit.... it is at 12 psi. I'd like my stout to have some head, but I am attributing that to the non stout faucet.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Yeah it is.... making me wonder if I should up the Co2 a bit.... it is at 12 psi. I'd like my stout to have some head, but I am attributing that to the non stout faucet.

I, personally, have had no problems getting a nice (sometimes creamy, even) head on a stout out of a regular faucet. How long has it been on Co2? And has it been at 12psi the whole time?

 

[jvcjbl]

I, personally, have had no problems getting a nice (sometimes creamy, even) head on a stout out of a regular faucet. How long has it been on Co2? And has it been at 12psi the whole time?

Force carbed @ room temp (72'f) @ 30 psi (rolled around for about 5-7 mins). Then placed in kegerator for 24 hours at residual pressure. After 24 hours I bled off what was left of the 30 psi application then dialed to 12 psi and it has been this way for around 2 days

 

[ayoungrad]

This is interesting.

I have a 1.095 imperial ale that finished at 1.020. It siphoned INCREDIBLY slowly at bottling time. Much slower than any beer before this one but this was also the biggest beer I have made.

It's carbonated now and it is much, much thicker, almost creamy compared with other beers. And I have had a lot of big beers. This is similar in thickness to TenFidy.

I've been trying to figure out why. Or more importantly... how?

I used 6 pounds of DME at FO. Maybe that is why?

OP did you use a large amount of DME at flameout?

It is also the first time I used distilled water with added CaCl, CaCO3, CaSO4 and MgSO4. So I thought this could be the only other reason... OP?

 

[ayoungrad]

BTW, I bottle. So it has nothing to do with kegging.

 

[jvcjbl]

Nope I used like 10.5 lbs of LME. My OG was higher than yours as well was my FG. I would have loved for mine to finish lower

This is interesting.

I have a 1.095 imperial ale that finished at 1.020. It siphoned INCREDIBLY slowly at bottling time. Much slower than any beer before this one but this was also the biggest beer I have made.

It's carbonated now and it is much, much thicker, almost creamy compared with other beers. And I have had a lot of big beers. This is similar in thickness to TenFidy.

I've been trying to figure out why. Or more importantly... how?

I used 6 pounds of DME at FO. Maybe that is why?

OP did you use a large amount of DME at flameout?

It is also the first time I used distilled water with added CaCl, CaCO3, CaSO4 and MgSO4. So I thought this could be the only other reason... OP?

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Force carbed @ room temp (72'f) @ 30 psi (rolled around for about 5-7 mins). Then placed in kegerator for 24 hours at residual pressure. After 24 hours I bled off what was left of the 30 psi application then dialed to 12 psi and it has been this way for around 2 days

I think you might want to give it a few more days at 12psi before passing final judgement.

The main problem is that you did the 30psi at room temperature (assuming the beer wasn't already nice and cold.) CO2 dissolves into solution muuuuuuuch easier at kegerator/keezer temps than at ~70*F.

My method: Throw it in the kegerator, connect gas at 30psi and leave for 48 hours. Then I dial back to serving pressure (typically 12psi), purge and let that sit until it's fully carbed (2-3 days usually.)

 

[jvcjbl]

I think you might want to give it a few more days at 12psi before passing final judgement.

The main problem is that you did the 30psi at room temperature (assuming the beer wasn't already nice and cold.) CO2 dissolves into solution muuuuuuuch easier at kegerator/keezer temps than at ~70*F.

My method: Throw it in the kegerator, connect gas at 30psi and leave for 48 hours. Then I dial back to serving pressure (typically 12psi), purge and let that sit until it's fully carbed (2-3 days usually.)

I may do this next time. My problem is I can't brew all the time (SWMBO ) and I have to make it drinkable ASAP. It works but ages very well as it goes on.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

They look pretty darn close in speed. If it's just about the head, when you pour a stout, lower the glass once or twice to create a head. This will push some CO2 out of suspension and create head. My stout does the same thing. I just do the lower the glass trick, and it works great.

M_C

Here is the video... guess I was just interrupting the head forming as a "faster pour".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAS5RLZEz4w

 

[jvcjbl]

They look pretty darn close in speed. If it's just about the head, when you pour a stout, lower the glass once or twice to create a head. This will push some CO2 out of suspension and create head. My stout does the same thing. I just do the lower the glass trick, and it works great.

M_C

I can set the glass straight down on the kegerator and pour and it will produce NO HEAD. It has only been carbed for a hair over 3 days. I will worry about the head if I can't produce any in the next couple days. Right now I am just enjoying it as it is getting better and better each day.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I decided to take that "bet" and get scientific (not really but it sounds good )

I filled a 1-gallon pitcher to the 2-qt mark, with water at apx 55F, and using a 8-ft 1/4" plastic hose, I measured how long it took to drain it from a fixed height - namely, my kitchen counter down to a bowl on the kitchen floor.

The plain water took 2m21s to drain.

I took the same water and added 1 cup of plain sugar to it, I measured the specific gravity, which was 1.026. I then proceeded to drain the same volume through the same hose at the same height and at the same temperature.

The result was 2m39s, an increase of 18s.

18s is a pretty significant, it's a 12.7 percent change (18 / 141). So I wouldn't consider this to be "insignificant" in any way.

I didn't bother to repeat the test but I see no reason why there would be much change between each test.

M_C

Except you are comparing motor oil to beer that, in terms of viscosity, has significantly less difference.

Its not like his stout is thick as a milkshake, as compared to 0.990 dry champagne.

a 1.020 stout pour should not pour differently than a 1.010 pilsner.

 

[jvcjbl]

Thanks for taking it to the next level. Maybe said placebo was a bit too much . Video got cut off but appears identical. Who knows.

I decided to take that "bet" and get scientific (not really but it sounds good )

I filled a 1-gallon pitcher to the 2-qt mark, with water at apx 55F, and using a 8-ft 1/4" plastic hose, I measured how long it took to drain it from a fixed height - namely, my kitchen counter down to a bowl on the kitchen floor.

The plain water took 2m21s to drain.

I took the same water and added 1 cup of plain sugar to it, I measured the specific gravity, which was 1.026. I then proceeded to drain the same volume through the same hose at the same height and at the same temperature.

The result was 2m39s, an increase of 18s.

18s is a pretty significant, it's a 12.7 percent change (18 / 141). So I wouldn't consider this to be "insignificant" in any way.

I didn't bother to repeat the test but I see no reason why there would be much change between each test.

M_C

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

You're probably undercarbonated... Or you could be missing "something" to create the head, or you could have something that's preventing the head.

M_C

Thanks for taking it to the next level. Maybe said placebo was a bit too much . Video got cut off but appears identical. Who knows.

 

[jvcjbl]

You're probably undercarbonated... Or you could be missing "something" to create the head, or you could have something that's preventing the head.

M_C

upped my Co2 to 14 psi. It is split to a manifold. Part of this perceived "slowness" could be because I had the last two kegs dialed in at 14 psi and this time I reset it at 12 psi since it was a stout going in and it is a single regulator setup. I will give this a try to see how it does.

***Picture was during a test fitting. Crimps have been added to all the lines and everything leak tested.***