Do I have a stuck fermentation?

[leomnovaes]

Hello everybody, I'm new here and at home-brewing.

Last saturday (november 8) I prepared my first wort. It is an all grain IPA, beer smith gives me a OG of 1.067 and an estimated FG of 1.013 with 70% efficiency.

I mashed at 66 C (151 F) for one hour

after that i tried to mash out (the microbiologist who taught me said it was good to ensure enzymes were inactive), but as my oven was pretty bad i couldn't. after 15 minutes i only got up to 68 C (155 F) and decided to quit it and immediately started re-circulation and after that i washed my wort with 15L of water at 70 C (158 F)

the original mash was with 20L of water and 6.30 kg of grains (5.70kg pale malt (2-row), 0.35kg of carared and 0.25kg of melanoiden)

after boil I've got a OG of 1.060 (7 less then beer smith suggested)

I used one package of dry US-05, put it in 20 C (68 F) sterilized water for 15 minutes. My girlfriend forgot to mix it, so a little bit of yeast were not pitched, stood sticked to the glass wall. however, i would say that it was about 10% of the 11.5g dry us-05

when i pitched it, my wort was at 25 C (77 F), and i've put it into my mother of a fermentation chiller with termostate set to 19C (66F)

after one day it was at 23 C (73 F), after two days and a half it finally hit the 19 C mark

however, i've took a gravity measurement of 1.020 in 11th november (roughly 4 days after pitching)

today (13 november) i took another measurement of 1.020, which means that in 2 days my yeast haven't attenuated

I feel this whole fermentation is odd, i used a 20L bucket for a 19L batch and krausen never leaked out. my airlock had almost no activity (i think it should be because the wort was cooling down, therefore retracting, it actually sucked in a tiny dose of the 70% alcohol i was using at my airlock)

Today i've raised the termostate temp to 20.5 C (69 F) and moved around the bucket for a little bit... after movement i've got a little airlock activity but the wort is still at 19.8 C (68 F), it should be hitting 20.5 C tomorrow

So i ask you all, is my fermentation stuck? how should i proceed?
wort tastes still a little sweet and for a 70 IBU IPA my ABV is too low.

thank you all, i hope you could help me ive checked inumerous threads of this forum before brewing but still i got these issues

 

[Bensiff]

Give the bucket a long gentle swirl to get the yeast back in suspension, might get you down 2-4 more points.

 

[leomnovaes]

Give the bucket a long gentle swirl to get the yeast back in suspension, might get you down 2-4 more points.

thanks for the quick reply!

if I get 4 more points down I'd get a 1.016 FG, meaning around 5.8 ABV and a 72% apparent attenuation, which is kinda low for US-05 isn't it?

Is there anyway I could bring this IPA up to 6+ ABV? If not, what were my main issues?

thank you very much!

 

[pdietert]

Also, raise the temperature to 75 deg. Fahrenheit (24 deg. Celsius). It shouldn't add any considerable esters at this point and US-05 is pretty clean anyway.

 

[pdietert]

I do think it is a bit stuck but you should be able to get it going again. Do the swirl and raise the temperature. I wouldn't be surprised if you hit your FG or lower.

 

[pdietert]

Also, adjust your efficiency in Beer Smith to match your OG, it might give you a different FG.

 

[duboman]

While it might be stuck, if you give it a gentle swirl and rouse the yeast and raise the temp and it still doesn't drop then you need to verify that your thermometer is calibrated. It is quite possible that if your thermometer is off you mashed at a higher temperature than you think. This would create a less fermentable wort resulting in a higher than expected final gravity

 

[leomnovaes]

While it might be stuck, if you give it a gentle swirl and rouse the yeast and raise the temp and it still doesn't drop then you need to verify that your thermometer is calibrated. It is quite possible that if your thermometer is off you mashed at a higher temperature than you think. This would create a less fermentable wort resulting in a higher than expected final gravity

I did a swirl on the bucket and raised my termostate to 23 C, also removed 1 of my frozen bottles so that temp might rise faster... it may get past 24 C as i live in brazil and well, it's damn hot and i'm using a home made mother of a fermentation chiller fueled with frozen bottles...

About the thermometer, I was using 2 to make sure, both matched 66 C

Also, adjust your efficiency in Beer Smith to match your OG, it might give you a different FG.

adjusted it to 63% total efficiency, my estimated FG now is 1.012, meaning a 6.3% ABV

if I could get this attenuation I'd be happy, since I am now stuck at 5.3%...

for how much more time would you recommend me to stay at this primary fermentation? (again, bew day was november 8, and it was late night when i finished so you could say november 9)

also, how often do would you check your gravity at this situation?


I thank you all for the responses, never thought I'd get so many quick help as a newcomer, guess i'll be stayin

 

[Yooper]

I did a swirl on the bucket and raised my termostate to 23 C, also removed 1 of my frozen bottles so that temp might rise faster... it may get past 24 C as i live in brazil and well, it's damn hot and i'm using a home made mother of a fermentation chiller fueled with frozen bottles...

About the thermometer, I was using 2 to make sure, both matched 66 C



adjusted it to 63% total efficiency, my estimated FG now is 1.012, meaning a 6.3% ABV

if I could get this attenuation I'd be happy, since I am now stuck at 5.3%...

for how much more time would you recommend me to stay at this primary fermentation? (again, bew day was november 8, and it was late night when i finished so you could say november 9)

also, how often do would you check your gravity at this situation?


I thank you all for the responses, never thought I'd get so many quick help as a newcomer, guess i'll be stayin

If it's still at 1.020 in a few days, it's finished. That's a bit high, but not unreasonably so.

Some of the reasons for it to stop at 1.020 include non-fermentables in the beer. That can be due to some of the ingredients used in beer (like lactose, which is unfermentable) and a higher mash temp than planned. It seems like if your mash temp really was 66C, it should go lower than 1.020 but I wonder if you were using the oven, and you had some "hot spots" where the mash temp exceeded 66C. That would explain a less fermentable wort for sure.

 

[leomnovaes]

I did stir well (my hands were bruised for 2 days lol) and tried to sink my termometer sometimes to see if temperature at the bottom was higher... most of the time i spent with the oven turned off since it maintained the 66 C for a whole bunch of time

still, i used a false bottom kettle, which i've read somewhere that may cause these hot spots, thats why i stirred so much

is there any problems with my grain selection? i tried to use over 90% of base in order to have the least amount of not fermentable sugars i could get. maybe something went wrong

however, it may still turn out good for a first brew try...

 

[leomnovaes]

i beg you pardon for my poor english. what i meant was STOVE, not oven... :/

 

[Yooper]

i beg you pardon for my poor english. what i meant was STOVE, not oven... :/

Ah, your English is not poor at all, but of course I do understand better now!

When you mashed in (added your grain to the water), did you get 66C right away? or was it higher (or lower) and you applied heat or cold to adjust it?

Feel free to give all the details, as you can't tell us too much. We may be able to see your exact steps and understand why this beer is stopping at 1.020.

your grains seem perfectly fine (although metric is a bit more difficult for me) and I'm wondering if there were temperature problems in the mash.

Also, can you check your hydrometer by placing it in pure water and ensuring it reads 1.000? That will also help.

 

[leomnovaes]

I never checked my hydrometer, will do it tomorrow.

i heated water to 71C and then put the grains... i guess it went to 64C and in about 10 minutes i turned off the stove and it hold the 66C for like 20m. then i switched on again for like 5 minutes, and off for 20m... the only misstep i made i think was the attempt to mash out. however it took only about 15m and i got only up to 68C and immediately started recirculation... i guess it could had add more non fermentable sugars, but since it was for only 15m and ramping from 66C to 68C during this, i guess it shouldnt affect that much... i couldve gotten a higher og and fg if it were so, but maybe attenuation should not be affected that much...

or i am wrong, again just a newbie here

 

[leomnovaes]

after the 1h of mashing and before the mash-out attempt i made and iode test, that did not change color at all, meaning i had extracted the sugar i could've... or is it not reliable?

 

[leomnovaes]

i dunno if that helps anything, but after mash and before boil i took a gravity test of the wort at 66C, it was 1.033... with the temperature correction it should be somewhat near 1.050, beersmith estimates a pre-boil gravity of 1.053, its similar but a little bit lower... ive already adjusted the efficiency to my batch result...

maybe i took a sample from the top of the wort, with more water, i dont remember quite well from where i took the sample. i did not care for this number cause i was worried only with the OG measured after boil, after cooling

 

[leomnovaes]

My bucket just got to 21C, checked and there was airlock activity, more than ever... could be the liquid expanding by the heating process... or do I have my yeast back up again?

 

[Yooper]

My bucket just got to 21C, checked and there was airlock activity, more than ever... could be the liquid expanding by the heating process... or do I have my yeast back up again?

Either is possible! When the temperature is raised, or even the barometric pressure, c02 is released from a liquid so it could be that. Or, it could be that the warmer temperature jump started the yeast again.

Wait a few days and check the SG and then you will know for sure.

 

[leomnovaes]

thank you all, problably saved my first batch

 

[pdietert]

Did you aerate or oxygenate your wort before pitching the yeast? If so, what was your method?

 

[leomnovaes]

I just let the wort fall from the kettle to the bucket, at a height of about 1m...

since it is dry-yeast i guess i don't need to worry that much about aeration, right?

today airlock activity ceased, but the bucket was dirt as if some krausen had leak through the airlock yesterday night (day 5 after brew)

tomorrow (day 7 after brew) i'll take another gravity test sample and see if i got attenuation. maybe begin my dry-hopping since activity is ceasing even after heating up

right now my bucket is at 22.1 C, couldnt get it to 23 C but tomorrow it will be. it started at 19C and today was and oddly cold day...

 

[leomnovaes]

Hey there!

I just checked my beer today, gravity got down to 1.019 only, but it tastes really better then before, there's no more sweetness and the hop bitterness settled down a little bit, making the absence of alcohol a little bit less unpleasant...

i've added my dry-hopping an will let it rest for more 2 days at 23 C and then put it in the refrigerator for maturation. or do you think i coul let it at 23C for more than two days? krausen is gone and airlock stopped completely, it seems to be done... but still, really low attenuation for this beer and yeast.

 

[leomnovaes]

here's a pic I took...

 

[leomnovaes]

No comments / suggestion based on these new infos?

I'll put it in the freezer today at the end of the day for secondary... will take another measurement just to be sure, but i bet it stays at 1.019.

So, if i'm doing anything wrong you still have time to warn me haha

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

It seems really cloudy. Usually, I'd leave the beer in primary till it was pretty clear before moving on to another step in the process. I've never dry hopped though and the cloudiness might just be a result of the hops. I'm sure someone with knowledge of the technique will clairify.

Congrats on making beer.

 

[leomnovaes]

Well, that's actually before I've put the hops. two days ago (2 days of dry-hopping right now)

i started dry-hopping because krausen was gone and i've got no airlock activity whatsoever, beer seemed like it stopped attenuation, or has only few points to go. i've read that this is a good time for dry-hopping...

i also think that it is too cloudy... it could be caused by the swirl i gave to the bucket to re-start my stuck fermentation, and temperature right now it is 23.5C. however, i thought that the secondary fermentation at 7C degrees could make this yeast in suspension drop and turn my beer clear. could someone tell me if this is ok or if i should wait a little bit more at primary with 23.5C and dry-hops...

i won't rack to a secondary, will be using the same bucket... don't think it is really needed for this time of fermentation, no off-flavors should be formed for not racking to a secondary, and i will not re-use the yeast-cake...

when i get home i'll check gravity for one last time and take another picture.


any tips until then will be crucial in my decision of starting secondary or not

 

[Yooper]

I normally don't dryhop until the beer is clear. The theory is that yeast will fall out, and "pull" the hop oils down with it. I normally go 10-14 days in the fermenter, then dryhop when the beer is fairly clear for 3-7 days, and then package.

If you're going to cold crash, ideally you'd do that before dryhopping so that the hops aroma stays freshest. Dryhopping should be the last thing you do to your beer, before packaging.

it won't hurt the beer now, of course. You just may not get the dryhops aroma you planned on.

Let the beer clear a bit before bottling, as right now it looks very murky and not too good.

 

[leomnovaes]

I normally don't dryhop until the beer is clear. The theory is that yeast will fall out, and "pull" the hop oils down with it. I normally go 10-14 days in the fermenter, then dryhop when the beer is fairly clear for 3-7 days, and then package.

If you're going to cold crash, ideally you'd do that before dryhopping so that the hops aroma stays freshest. Dryhopping should be the last thing you do to your beer, before packaging.

it won't hurt the beer now, of course. You just may not get the dryhops aroma you planned on.

Let the beer clear a bit before bottling, as right now it looks very murky and not too good.

i guess i didn't quite understand the concepts of primary/secondary/cold crash

here at brazil, the way we teach each other there are only 2 stages:

1- fermentation: it's basically the primary, where beer attenuate and yeast do it's job
2- maturation: where we put the beer about between 0 and 10 degrees (Celsius) in order to make the yeast fall down and get a clearer beer. it is also where more complex flavors settle...

and we mostly bottle our beer from that, there's almost no kegging process and i've read that cold crash is a practice you do only when kegging and shouldnt do when bottling...

so, in my terms, i am currently at the end of fermentation (attenuation is done and beer should be more clear today than the pic, yeast appearently have done it's job) where i started dry-hopping, because if i dry-hopped at maturation, since it's colder its worse to get the oils from the hops, dry-hpping is most effective at fermentation temps...

based on that, could you tell me the difference between primary / secondary / cold crashing?

and what should i / should i not do when brewing an 1.060 OG IPA with dry-hopping and bottling with no kegging?

I thank you all

 

[leomnovaes]

in the terms i described, i basically intended on fermenting for 10 days (last 2 of dry-hopping) and 5 days of maturation at 7 C (also with dry-hops reaching a total of 7 days of dry-hopping)

i was aiming at a 7 days fermentation but since i've had these problems i've described in this thread, i decided to let it out for 3 more days giving a total of 10 days...

cheers

 

[Yooper]

i guess i didn't quite understand the concepts of primary/secondary/cold crash

here at brazil, the way we teach each other there are only 2 stages:

1- fermentation: it's basically the primary, where beer attenuate and yeast do it's job
2- maturation: where we put the beer about between 0 and 10 degrees (Celsius) in order to make the yeast fall down and get a clearer beer. it is also where more complex flavors settle...

and we mostly bottle our beer from that, there's almost no kegging process and i've read that cold crash is a practice you do only when kegging and shouldnt do when bottling...

so, in my terms, i am currently at the end of fermentation (attenuation is done and beer should be more clear today than the pic, yeast appearently have done it's job) where i started dry-hopping, because if i dry-hopped at maturation, since it's colder its worse to get the oils from the hops, dry-hpping is most effective at fermentation temps...

based on that, could you tell me the difference between primary / secondary / cold crashing?

and what should i / should i not do when brewing an 1.060 OG IPA with dry-hopping and bottling with no kegging?

I thank you all

Cold crashing, chilling the beer rapidly to get it to clear, is commonly done to beers that will be bottled, as then you have less junk and sediment in the bottle.

Generally, the fermentation is over in 5-10 days, and the beer is allowed to finish up. At that point, the yeast is still active, even though fermentation is finished, and the yeast will even go back and digest some of their own waste products. After that, the beer will start to clear.

Once it is clearing, it is in that conditioning phase. Once the beer has had a chance to clear, it can be bottled or kegged. Each brewer may have a different way to package their beer. Cold crashing is not something I do, as I keg and the beer clears beautifully in the keg, but many others do.

The issue is that you don't want to dryhop until the beer is clear, or at least much clearer than that murky beer in the photo. That photo shows a beer that is a long way from clear, with much in the way of suspended solids. Once it is clearer than that, and much of the sediment is on the bottom and not in the beer, it can be either dryhopped right in the fermenter, or racked (siphoned) to another vessel for dryhopping. That really doesn't matter, but yeast suspended in the beer doesn't give great results with dryhopping- the yeast cells interfere with the hops oils staying suspended in the beer.

 

[leomnovaes]

Here's today's sample... Still cloudy, no change in gravity...

 

[leomnovaes]

Thank you yooper, you are helping me so much.

One last stupid question,

I'm taking these samples from the tap at the bottom of my bucket... Should I be taking it from the top? Is it supposed to have impact in my measurements? The tap is near the yeast cake, but a little bit above it. It should affect the cloudiness shouldn't it?

I'm gonna leave it for more 2 or 3 days fermenting before cold crashing...

 

[Yooper]

Thank you yooper, you are helping me so much.

One last stupid question,

I'm taking these samples from the tap at the bottom of my bucket... Should I be taking it from the top? Is it supposed to have impact in my measurements? The tap is near the yeast cake, but a little bit above it. It should affect the cloudiness shouldn't it?

I'm gonna leave it for more 2 or 3 days fermenting before cold crashing...

I don't have a tap on my fermenter, so I've always taken readings from the top. It shouldn't have an impact on your readings, but it sure would be hard to judge the level of clarity, as the spigot seems to be sucking up yeast.

 

[leomnovaes]

Thanks again.

I've done some research and found out recommendations for those who intend to bottle from primary bucket through a spigot at the bottom. It seems I have to discard the first few glasses of beer until it comes a little bit clearer. Exactly because it is near the yeast cake. above it but near. Guess my beer should be way clearer than that if I took a sample from the top

Guess I'll have to buy a cooking syringe in order to get a sample through the air-lock hole next brew... This time I'll just put in fridge for cold-crashing and then just discard my first bottle.

Thanks again

 

[Yooper]

Thanks again.

I've done some research and found out recommendations for those who intend to bottle from primary bucket through a spigot at the bottom. It seems I have to discard the first few glasses of beer until it comes a little bit clearer. Exactly because it is near the yeast cake. above it but near. Guess my beer should be way clearer than that if I took a sample from the top

Guess I'll have to buy a cooking syringe in order to get a sample through the air-lock hole next brew... This time I'll just put in fridge for cold-crashing and then just discard my first bottle.

Thanks again

I wouldn't do that. I'd rack (siphon) to a bottling bucket, so that you can mix the priming sugar into it well for carbonation, and then bottle with a spigot and bottling wand from them. You don't need a cooking syringe through the airlock hole- take off the lid and use a turkey baster or something (sanitized of course) to remove the sample. Or, even sanitize the hydrometer and put it in the bucket. That's not the best way, as it's easiest to read the hydrometer at eye level plus a hydrometer could break, but it's doable if you don't have a turkey baster or a way to remove samples.

It's not like the beer is a delicate flower- open the lid and check it!

 

[stevedasleeve]

You're far too impatient! My advice is to leave it alone, 2 weeks total minimum. The beer is likely to be fully fermented by then. Me I pitch, set my chamber to fermentation temperature and revisit in 3 weeks - no samples, no swirling, no worries.

The rest of your process seems fine to me though maybe a bit too warm to pitch, but next time...!

FWIW I usually get 80%+ attenuation with S-05 so I bet if you give it enough time your final gravity will be in the 1.010-12 range.

Cheers!
Steve da sleeve

 

[leomnovaes]

You're far too impatient! My advice is to leave it alone, 2 weeks total minimum. The beer is likely to be fully fermented by then. Me I pitch, set my chamber to fermentation temperature and revisit in 3 weeks - no samples, no swirling, no worries.

The rest of your process seems fine to me though maybe a bit too warm to pitch, but next time...!

FWIW I usually get 80%+ attenuation with S-05 so I bet if you give it enough time your final gravity will be in the 1.010-12 range.

Cheers!
Steve da sleeve

Hi Steve,

gravity haven't changed for 5 days in a row... guess it stopped on the first week problably by the two causes i explained earlier, 1- started 25C got to 19C in 3 days, 2- didn't activate the yeast correctly, some were left stuck to the glass, seems i underpitched

I'm just following the instructions given my brew teacher (a microbiologist phd, teacher at the largest university in the country)

he said that normally it should ferment for 5-7 days, since mine got this lazy start 10 days should be fine... i'm giving the beer a 12 day fermentation before cold crashing for 3 days... it's not a big nor complex beer so it doesn't need much time...

since it is my first beer i found out that collecting samples, understanding fermentation and my mistakes was really positive. now i know much more about brewing, if i just left it there for 3 weeks then bottled i would never understand my mistakes nor fermentation process as a whole...

You bet that next time I'll do everything right and thus not worry about the beer for 2 weeks, than taking just a FG sample before bottling...

cheers!

 

[leomnovaes]

I wouldn't do that. I'd rack (siphon) to a bottling bucket, so that you can mix the priming sugar into it well for carbonation, and then bottle with a spigot and bottling wand from them. You don't need a cooking syringe through the airlock hole- take off the lid and use a turkey baster or something (sanitized of course) to remove the sample. Or, even sanitize the hydrometer and put it in the bucket. That's not the best way, as it's easiest to read the hydrometer at eye level plus a hydrometer could break, but it's doable if you don't have a turkey baster or a way to remove samples.

It's not like the beer is a delicate flower- open the lid and check it!

Hi again Yooper!

Well, i was intending to insert priming solution directly at bottles before bottling, using a syringe to insert the right volume of solution for the bottle size, that way i do not need to disturb the trub mixing the priming solution. I would just open the fridge and then bottling from the tap right from the fridge, without to need to even touch the bucket (just to remove the airlock)

isn't this even more accurate on distributing the priming than mixing it in a bottling bucket?

besides, i do not have a siphon... yet, for next brew i'll sure have one


and btw, i have a TERRIBLE time opening these buckets, gosh, i would be disturbing the trub just by my efforts in removing the cover :/ any tips on this?

thanks again

 

[duboman]

Hi again Yooper!

Well, i was intending to insert priming solution directly at bottles before bottling, using a syringe to insert the right volume of solution for the bottle size, that way i do not need to disturb the trub mixing the priming solution. I would just open the fridge and then bottling from the tap right from the fridge, without to need to even touch the bucket (just to remove the airlock)

isn't this even more accurate on distributing the priming than mixing it in a bottling bucket?

besides, i do not have a siphon... yet, for next brew i'll sure have one


and btw, i have a TERRIBLE time opening these buckets, gosh, i would be disturbing the trub just by my efforts in removing the cover :/ any tips on this?

thanks again

In short, no, the most efficient means of properly priming is to weigh out the appropriate amount of priming sugar. For moderate carbonation use .75oz per finished gallon of beer or 1oz per gallon for a bit more carbonation. Boil 1 cup of water and add the sugar to dissolve and make a simple syrup. Add this to the bottom of your sanitized bottling bucket and rack the beer onto it. The gentle swirl will self mix the solution throughout the beer. Then bottle using a tube from the spigot and bottling wand.

This process will ensure all bottles are equally primed and carbonate uniformly. IMO, get yourself a bucket, wand, etc. and do it right the first time. After all you put enough effort into making the beer so you will want a good finished product!

 

[leomnovaes]

In short, no, the most efficient means of properly priming is to weigh out the appropriate amount of priming sugar. For moderate carbonation use .75oz per finished gallon of beer or 1oz per gallon for a bit more carbonation. Boil 1 cup of water and add the sugar to dissolve and make a simple syrup. Add this to the bottom of your sanitized bottling bucket and rack the beer onto it. The gentle swirl will self mix the solution throughout the beer. Then bottle using a tube from the spigot and bottling wand.

This process will ensure all bottles are equally primed and carbonate uniformly. IMO, get yourself a bucket, wand, etc. and do it right the first time. After all you put enough effort into making the beer so you will want a good finished product!

I really don't see how mixing priming solution in bucket is better than putting the exact amount of the same solution inside each bottle...

dissolve 100g of sugar in 200ml of water (boil), then put 1ml of this solution for each 100ml of bottled beer... meaning a 600ml beer will have 6ml of this solution, assuring 5g/l of priming sugar in every bottle

maybe you could tell me the big difference between doing this rather than mixing the solution in the bucket, at my point of view mixing it in the bucket will not assure an even distribution of the priming solution at each ml of beer...
i mean, if you put the solution on the top then mix, maybe beer at the bottom has a little less... and actually it's rather difficult to measure the exact amount of beer that you are bottling, unless your bucket has measurements...

i'm not trying to be stubborn, just will appreciate very much if you could give me more theory in this decision

thanks and cheers!

 

[pdietert]

Just my 2 cents:
You did not really oxygenate your wort so fermentation at this point is going to be really slow. Cold crashing now will completely stop fermentation but once you bottle, fermentation will probably start again as there will be more oxygen introduced and the process will rouse the yeast. Adding more sugar at bottling will likely over-carbonate your beer. If it were me, I would swirl every day or two and see if you can get any more activity out of the yeast, you got 1 point before. Keep doing this until you can not get any more activity.