DME late addition

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beerbelay

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How does one add DME as a late addition? I guess the question is pertaining to Palmers book and the reference to hot side aeration. If I was to add DME at 15 min. or flameout I would have to stir or wisk it in. Is this something to worry about, is there a way around this to still retain the best hop utilization or is this nothing to worry about?
 

Figbash

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If you add the DME slowly while stirring it'll readily dissolve. It doesn't need to be "whisked in". I've been adding 2/3 of my DME at flameout for quite a while now with no ill effects.

Tom
 
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beerbelay

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Thanks. My first late addition of DME and didn't want to ruin this batch of celebration ale
 

Thumper

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If you add the DME slowly while stirring it'll readily dissolve. It doesn't need to be "whisked in". I've been adding 2/3 of my DME at flameout for quite a while now with no ill effects.

Tom
+ 1 on this technique. I have started doing this lately as well. I don't have any issues getting it to dissolve.
 

Brewham

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So with late addition - what happens to the "hot break." Do you still boil until it comes or do you forget about it?
 

Yooper

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So with late addition - what happens to the "hot break." Do you still boil until it comes or do you forget about it?
You shouldn't get much hot break with extract anyway- it's already been processed by the manufacturer. Don't worry about it.

I am a believer in adding the extract at flame out, so I wouldn't boil it at all. Many add it at 15 minutes, but I found that it stops the boil. So, I started adding it at flame out and it's still plenty hot enough to pasteurize the extract. Not having a hot break isn't an issue at all.
 

Brewham

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So here's a variation on the question. How does a short boil effect the hops?

Short boil means less hop bitterness but lower specific gravity of the boil means more hop absorption. How do the two reconcile? Do you use the same amount of hops or how do you adjust? Could you just put the hops in with the water (maybe stepped with grain - maybe not) and let that boil for 45 minutes and then add the extract for the last 15 minutes?
 

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So here's a variation on the question. How does a short boil effect the hops?

Short boil means less hop bitterness but lower specific gravity of the boil means more hop absorption. How do the two reconcile? Do you use the same amount of hops or how do you adjust? Could you just put the hops in with the water (maybe stepped with grain - maybe not) and let that boil for 45 minutes and then add the extract for the last 15 minutes?
A short boil definitely affects the isomerization of the hops. A full boil (or less dense wort like with late extract addition) increased the hops utilization. I use software to help with figuring the IBUs. You can boil for 45 minutes if you want- just adjust the hopping accordingly. I like to go with 60 minute boils all of the time- it gets about the "max" out of the hops. A boil longer than 60 minutes doesn't get much more in the way of IBUs from the hops, while a shorter 45 minute boil will get quite a bit less. Like I said, software helps tremendously with the actual figuring of it. It's not a linear calculation, so it's easiest to have the software help with it.
 

Korben

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A short boil definitely affects the isomerization of the hops. A full boil (or less dense wort like with late extract addition) increased the hops utilization. I use software to help with figuring the IBUs. You can boil for 45 minutes if you want- just adjust the hopping accordingly. I like to go with 60 minute boils all of the time- it gets about the "max" out of the hops. A boil longer than 60 minutes doesn't get much more in the way of IBUs from the hops, while a shorter 45 minute boil will get quite a bit less. Like I said, software helps tremendously with the actual figuring of it. It's not a linear calculation, so it's easiest to have the software help with it.
Do you use Beersmith Yooper?
 

dotnetdotcom

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You shouldn't get much hot break with extract anyway- it's already been processed by the manufacturer.
For the last batch I made, I was using United Canadian Pale LME (I get it bulk from my LHBS, it's the cheapest available). I was making a yeast starter using the extract, probably about 3-4 tbsp (didn't measure closely) and a pint of water. I boiled it in a glass container for about 3 minutes in the microwave to sanitize it. When I took it out, a lot of white fluffy sediment had formed that I assumed was the hot break. I'll have to investigate it further when I do my next batch.
 

dotnetdotcom

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Did a quick web search on the malt extract making process. It appears that some are boiled and some are not. Briess specifically states their extract is made from boiled wort. Other manufactures' web sites say nothing about boiling, but say extract concentration is done by evaporation under vacuum in order that lower temperatures can be used. United Canadian's website doesn't describe their concentration process, but they do say they have diastatic and non-diastatic extracts. I would assume that diastatic extracts have not been boiled and still need a hot break.
 

Nikobrew

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A short boil definitely affects the isomerization of the hops. A full boil (or less dense wort like with late extract addition) increased the hops utilization. I use software to help with figuring the IBUs. You can boil for 45 minutes if you want- just adjust the hopping accordingly. I like to go with 60 minute boils all of the time- it gets about the "max" out of the hops. A boil longer than 60 minutes doesn't get much more in the way of IBUs from the hops, while a shorter 45 minute boil will get quite a bit less. Like I said, software helps tremendously with the actual figuring of it. It's not a linear calculation, so it's easiest to have the software help with it.
So if I'm brewing a recipe with DME as the base. I can just use my steeping grains, pull those out, and once my boil is going just add hops along the way. So I'm basically boiling water, the wort from steeped grain, and hops until the very end if using dme? Not only is that simpler but I also get MORE hop utilization? That's awesome! I know the software calculates this but is there a rule of thumb i.e. 10% more ibu's, etc? I'm sure it changes throughout the boil, just curious. I know this post was from a while ago I'm just thinking of using DME as base extract for some beers and this sounds super simple.

I know LME can be a pain if it scorches at the bottom of the kettle, does dme have any problem with that or does it dissolve pretty well? Do you stir it up a bunch at flameout?
 
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