Distilling box/bargain wine

[cmac62]

I recently got counter top still and was thinking about getting a big jug or box of cheepish wine and stilling it. Has anyone done this and how did it turn out? Also, is it better to distill red or white? Can it be done decently in a one and done with a little pot still? Thanks

 

[doug293cz]

It's worth a try. You will end up with some kind of brandy. I don't think red or white makes a difference - what comes out of the still will be clear and "water white."

Brew on

 

[Stormcrow]

Sounds like a great idea and a cheap way to get some experience. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[bernardsmith]

I guess the issue for me is the cost of the "wash" you want to use as your test. If you are already an experienced wine maker (or beer brewer), and you have a couple of weeks you might buy a gallon of sorbate-free apple juice, add a pound and a half sugar and make a quick apple wine at about 13% ABV. - Cost will be - what about $8 for the gallon. You are likely to collect (usefully) about 400 ml of spirit at about 140 -160 proof (or thereabouts) having removed all the foreshots and declining to collect any tails. You can dilute that to about 700 ml (a scant wine bottle full) of spirits at about 40 % ABV (80 proof) (but use a calculator that will take account of both the actual proof and actual volume). Assuming the wine you buy to test "proof of concept" is a gallon, the volume is likely to be around 400 ml and the proof is likely to be very similar assuming the ABV of the wine is around 13%. (for the record, I make cheese, and typically transform the leftover whey into a wine at 13 % which I convert to a spirit on a table top air cooled still to make liqueurs from versions of Kahlua to Ouzo to Drambuie).

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

for the record, I make cheese, and typically transform the leftover whey into a wine at 13 %

Whuuuut?!? Google confirms it to be a thing!

 

[bernardsmith]

Whuuuut?!? Google confirms it to be a thing!

Blaand, a low alcohol whey wine, made from true buttermilk (the whey left over from butter making) was made in the North of Scotland and in Norway for hundreds of years and in the islands and highlands of Scotland, this was both the first taste a new born had (even before it tasted its mother's milk) and was the last taste the dying had before they closed their eyes for the last time - or so the tradition goes. When commercial dairies took off in the early part of the 20th Century this wine (about 1-3% ABV) was lost. But a few years ago, a commercial brewery/winery tried to make a 12-14% ABV version of this drink in Edinburgh, I think, but it was not a great success and I see that at least one distillery is making a spirit from the whey.
A 12-14% version of blaand (as in blond or blonde, not as in bland) is easy to make.
I make my whey using bacteria from real kefir (made from grains) to inoculate milk for my hard cheeses so my whey is what is known as sweet whey. Sweet whey, in my opinion, does not make as an enjoyably drinkable wine as quickly (needs far more aging as a wine) than acidic whey made when you make fresh cheese using lemon juice or vinegar. But the point is that you take the whey (the watery solution after you have removed the proteins to make the cheese. The whey will contain about 22 points (1.022) of lactose. Lactose is too complex for wine yeast to ferment , so you can add lactase (the enzyme) to break down these sugars into glucose and sucrose) and I add about 2 lbs of sugar to every gallon of whey. This gives me an SG of about 1.100. If you add a wine yeast after a couple of weeks you will have a whey wine. Me - I generally pitch bakers yeast and after about 4 weeks it is ready for me to convert into whey spirits.
Since the whey is a by-product of my cheese making , the total cost is the 2 lbs of sugar and the half dozen tablets of lactase I add. A gallon of whole milk is what - about $3.50 - so we are talking about $4.00 for about 400 ml of 70 -80% ABV spirit (diluted to about 750 ml of 40 % (80 proof) . Time from filling the kettle of the tabletop still to clean up is less than 2 hours (1hr 15 to reach starting temp - 5 minutes to collect foreshots, and about 30 minutes to run the hearts I want to collect.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

That's pretty cool, thanks for the info!

 

[bernardsmith]

That's pretty cool, thanks for the info!

And curiously, most (everyone?) on Youtube who offers a recipe for "blaand" makes the blaand a typical wine. No problem. But the indigenous wine was made using ONLY buttermilk, and was fermented with some kind of bacteria or yeast that was held by the wood in the kegs that the buttermilk was stored in and given to the crofters and fishermen. Not certain if the yeast was S. claussenii or some other strain that can ferment lactose, but they did not , it seems, add sugars - unlikely to have had many or any - other than from the berries that would have grown wild but which there is no record they used in blaand. In other words, blaand was much like the Russian Kvass beer, almost, but not quite, a soft drink with a tiny amount of alcohol

 

[cmac62]

Looking at some Carlo Rossi red of some kind or Pinot Grigio or Suvion Blank (spelling is obviously not my strength, LOL). I was thinking start out doing 2 stripping runs of 1 gal each and then adding this to a 3rd gal and doing a 1.5 low and slow with this one for the spirit run. That's about $30 in wine, not too bad. Thanks for the input. I definately want to make some cheese and Blaad to distill.

 

[cmac62]

I found a video on Youtube from Jesse on Still It about stilling boxed wine and he said it turned out OK. I'll still give it a run and see.

 

[cmac62]

I make cheese, and typically transform the leftover whey into a wine at 13 % which I convert to a spirit on a table top air cooled still to make liqueurs from versions of Kahlua to Ouzo to Drambuie

So I'm interested is the Kahlua and Drambuie recipes, especially the Drambuie. Good stuff, but pricy.

 

[bracconiere]

I recently got counter top still and was thinking about getting a big jug or box of cheepish wine and stilling it. Has anyone done this and how did it turn out? Also, is it better to distill red or white? Can it be done decently in a one and done with a little pot still? Thanks

use carllo rosii, that's what i did because i needed the bottles anyway, it was my still's inaugeration, and i still have a gallon of it aging since 2008.....

 

[cmac62]

So I got 3 gals of Carlo Rossi Burgundy for $35. I ran two through the still with some 45% spirit I wasn't going to drink and ended up with a gal of 40% low wines. I plan to do a spirit run with 1/2 then taste and see if I want to add more wine and do a 1.5 still run with wine and Low wines. It smelled strange coming off the still. We shall see. Of course I can always rerun it in the column and make vodka/Gin. So no great loss if it doesn't turn out.

 

[Red over White]

If you already start with wine, is there any time or energy savings freezing out the water and then running just the remainder?

 

[doug293cz]

If you already start with wine, is there any time or energy savings freezing out the water and then running just the remainder?

I'm guessing no. If there were an energy savings, then the dual process would probably be used commercially.

Brew on

 

[Red over White]

I'm guessing no. If there were an energy savings, then the dual process would probably be used commercially.

Brew on

Makes sense, it just seems like an effortless way to get rid of the undesirable portion.

 

[doug293cz]

Makes sense, it just seems like an effortless way to get rid of the undesirable portion.

Well, it takes time and energy to freeze the starting stock, as well as extra equipment.

Brew on

 

[Red over White]

Well, it takes time and energy to freeze the starting stock, as well as extra equipment.

Brew on

Just goes to show what an outsider looking in sees. Knowing what I know about about fermenting beer, fermenting under pressure to reduce fusels and freezing that product looks viable to streamline the process. Take all of that with a grain of salt, because I have never stilled anything.

 

[acrowe]

When I was in grad school in Chicago in the early 2000s really cheap wine used to come on sale at grocery stores almost as a loss leader like milk. I think Carlo Rossi and similar at about $5.99/gallon. When I arrived back in Canada it was $24/3L - stopped drinking it. So my question is has anyone actually made "brandy" from cider or store grape juice wine? Was it decent? How long did it age?
As far as distilled liquor my preference is whiskey, but I haven't heard of anyone making it at home who is really raving about their product. I also enjoy Brandy and I'd be interested to know if anyone has had success

 

[cmac62]

@acrowe there is a huge home distilling forum that has tons of info. The folks on their take it very seriously, but there is a lot of info concerning turning all kinds of stuff in to likker.

 

[cmac62]

If you already start with wine, is there any time or energy savings freezing out the water and then running just the remainder?

Since we have freezers running all the time, I don't think it would be "extra" energy. I suppose it would take a little less time to run the concentrate, but I'm using and airstill for this and it doesn't take that much time anyway. I did three stripping runs in about 4-5 hours. Maybe I'll get the spirit run started tonight. We'll see.

 

[cmac62]

I have an Anvil 10.5 that I have been using for my boiler and a 2" SS tubing still I can run as a reflux or pot. I was thinking maybe this weekend I'll put the brandy through that for the spirit run, but the airstill is so much less hassle. I just have to collect in super small jars for the cuts. Any thoughts on which to do? Thanks

 

[cmac62]

So I did the spirit run the other night. I used the leftover wine to dilute the still charge to about 35% and ran it slow (drip drip dribble) and it took about 1.5 hours to do the each charge of 1 gal. I have the cut jars airing and will taste and blend sometime this weekend. There were some really tasty stuff before the airing, but I think it needs it as there was definitely some sulfery smells also. I had copper in the pot and a little in the vapor path. Not sure how much it helped, but the idea sounds right.

 

[pctech101]

I recently got counter top still and was thinking about getting a big jug or box of cheepish wine and stilling it. Has anyone done this and how did it turn out? Also, is it better to distill red or white? Can it be done decently in a one and done with a little pot still? Thanks

I've gotten the $13 gallon of sangria at walmart several times. I usually discard the first ounces of my 1.5g distiller (save for starting fires or cleaning nails(acetone))... If you want alcohol without all the other contaminants it works. Some flavor comes through. I find it costly using this method and now just ferment a sugar wash. I don't have a alc meter yet to confirm strength but I get half a quart of some strong stuff. In total I usually get close to a quart jar; my guess is it's around 60%... The first .5qt is likely around 100%. 2 shots and you can feel it creeping...

 

[cmac62]

Out of the 12 liters I kept about 1/2 gal of hearts at about 55%, then put some charred oak chunks in there. Tried it last weekend and it was passible. Not Remy Martin quite yet, but I may get there. LOL

 

[Satoshi]

I just ran a cheap box wine through, didn't do any cuts, it tastes awful, haven't drunk any properly though. First pint burns clear, got another ¼ pint that doesn't take a flame, so I stopped the still, letting everything cool and hoping for some advice

 

[cmac62]

Put it all together with another gallon and run that slow and make narrow cuts. Then oak it for a few months at least. That is my recommendation. Have safe fun.

 

[bernardsmith]

I just ran a cheap box wine through, didn't do any cuts, it tastes awful, haven't drunk any properly though. First pint burns clear, got another ¼ pint that doesn't take a flame, so I stopped the still, letting everything cool and hoping for some advice

Right but what's the proof or ABV? You don't normally drink spirits at 70% ABV (140 proof) and you don't normally drink what you buy (typically at 40% (80 proof) just hot off the still. If you are distilling a wine at say 12% and you are distilling a gallon, then if you captured about 400 ml (almost a pint , or 1/8th of a gallon) you are likely to find that the distillate is about 60-70% ABV (a table top still being a pot still for all intents and purposes). You might want to allow it to age a few weeks and then dilute it to about 40% - and why I say all this as someone who ferments whey from my cheese making into a 12% wine and then transforms that wine into a sorta kinda vodka that I then dilute and make liqueurs (diluting the spirit with more or less the same volume of water to bring the ABV down to about 30%.

 

[Satoshi]

Insightful, thank you

I'm quite impatient, in a good way. I found some articles about stripping runs, so I treated it as just that. Now I've got some foreshot, head, heart, and I'm just running tails now.

After having read so much and watched so many youtubes, I'm going to run a third distillation too

The plan is to run a slower heat up, really drag out the foreshots and heads, hopefully gain good hearts and another collection of tails. All will be well, I hope

Once I've got all that done, I plan to put the heads, tails and the body from the first stripping run back in and run a good slow heat, or maybe run another strip, and the two slower distillations, I don't know, all advice is welcomed, I'm new to this.

I've got a banana ferment on the turn, should be ready soon I have a gallon, not sure if I'll just distill the lot or split it, it's nice straight off so I'll definitely be giving it a try before any distillation

 

[Satoshi]

Put it all together with another gallon and run that slow and make narrow cuts. Then oak it for a few months at least. That is my recommendation. Have safe fun.

That's pretty what I just said in my video glad to be on track
Not sure if I'll oak it though; didn't even think I'd get this far! It's great! It started from a cheap boxed white wine, was going to be a sacrificial run, but it's just getting better and better! Even if I end up binning it, I've learnt a lot this evening, thank you all!!

 

[cmac62]

I gotta gets some brewing in soon as I have an event next month that I need some beer for, so when brewing it should be easy to set up a sugar wash for some neutral/gin to be. Hopefully it won't be too hot hear this weekend. If I can I'd also like to get my gal of molasses into a fermenter. What fun.

 

[bernardsmith]

Just goes to show what an outsider looking in sees. Knowing what I know about about fermenting beer, fermenting under pressure to reduce fusels and freezing that product looks viable to streamline the process. Take all of that with a grain of salt, because I have never stilled anything.

At what temperature will a 12% wine freeze? Ethanol freezes at minus 173 F. Most home wine makers and would be distillers don't have equipment that will freeze that low. So, the cost of freezing ethanol would likely be far higher than the cost of boiling the liquid and collecting what condenses

 

[Red over White]

At what temperature will a 12% wine freeze? Ethanol freezes at minus 173 F. Most home wine makers and would be distillers don't have equipment that will freeze that low. So, the cost of freezing ethanol would likely be far higher than the cost of boiling the liquid and collecting what condenses

Just like eisbock, freezing the water out is the goal. Any freezer would work as a first step before applying heat.

As a non distiller, making a very clean wash under pressure with the least amount of higher alcohols and getting rid of water in my way would be my way.

 

[SaskBrewer306]

I recently got counter top still and was thinking about getting a big jug or box of cheepish wine and stilling it. Has anyone done this and how did it turn out? Also, is it better to distill red or white? Can it be done decently in a one and done with a little pot still? Thanks

I know this is old, but I've done it. Undrinkable white wine, distilled, put it on oak chips until I got the colour I like. It's really decent. 10/10 would do it again if I buy **** wine.