Discouraging a Lacto - lactobacillus infection?

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Dynachrome

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I've been having great luck with my Ales and IPAs - Poerter - Bock.

My Wheat beers have been going sour. One of the first batches, common friends liked the slight lemony flavor.

There were a couple other batches in between that also went sour. The last one is absolutely grapefruit juice. I set it in the fridge months ago and it has continued getting more sour there. When I get one out of the fridge it is nice and clear. I open it and start to pour it into a pint and the yeast cake explodes off of the bottom and turns it dark and cloudy.

I don't find it pleasant. It is drinkable. I finished most of a bottle the other night out of curiosity. I'm pretty sure it won't grow on me.

One article I read recommended doing sours st higher temps. Another said hops will suppress it? ...dont grind where you brew....



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I have purchased another set of ingredients to make another wheat. I have two thoughts to help - wait - three thoughs.

1 - More stringent sanitation.

2 - Hopping it up a bit.

3 - Setting in the fermentor for a longer period.

Please ad your ideas to help reduce the sourness.
 

samc

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don't mill grain anywhere near where you transfer wort form kettle to fermenter.
 
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I should comment that I don't recommend bleach for regular cleaning, as it must be rinsed thoroughly. But I do believe it is a very strong sanitizer, and might be employed occasionally when a ground-leveling nuclear blast is necessary.
 
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Dynachrome

Dynachrome

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I typically use bleach and let everything dry well. The chlorine should off-gas.

Also, I've noticed that there is a fairly susbstantia; cloud when I pour the pre-milled grains out of the bag into the mashtun.

Maybe I'll just have to revert to using my Stainless steel boil pots like I started out.

That HDPE is that bad for wheats, huh?
 

broadbill

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What I don't get is that your non-wheat beers are fine, but your wheats are getting infected. How does that work?...it is separate equipment?

I think some fine pointers about sanitation have been made, but if I understand the problem correctly, the OP would also be having issues with the non-wheat beers as well.

I'm assuming that the OP is brewing a mix of beers (non-wheat and wheat), however. I is possible that a piece of equipment became infected a few batches ago, and its been contaminating each subsequent batch, which have been all wheat beers.
 

broadbill

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I typically use bleach and let everything dry well. The chlorine should off-gas.
should...but does it?? I've always heard that you should rinse bleach....no exceptions...

Also, I've noticed that there is a fairly susbstantia; cloud when I pour the pre-milled grains out of the bag into the mashtun.
If grain dust was an issue, wouldn't your non-wheat beers also be sour/infected?


Maybe I'll just have to revert to using my Stainless steel boil pots like I started out.

That HDPE is that bad for wheats, huh?
huh?
 

GuitarLord5000

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Replace all your plastic tubing and replace your plastic bucket (if that's what you're using as a fermenter). Infections can reside in these places, and these things are cheaper to replace versus the time to try to properly sanitize them. Bleach the s**t out of everything that comes into contact with your beer after it is cooled. Check your sanitation routine. Have a mixture of starsan or iodophor ready in a spray bottle and make sure everything gets a liberal spraying before use. Particularly those things that will touch the wort after it's cooled. If you are using a counterflow wort chiller, clean and sanitize it really well. Make sure it's being sanitized just prior to use. If you're using a plate chiller, sterilize it in a pressure cooker just before use.
It sounds to me like you may have an ongoing infection in all of your beers, but the higher hop rate or low ferment temperatures of your other beers might be suppressing the infection to the point where it is undetectable.

Dynachrome said:
1 - More stringent sanitation.
This!
 
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Dynachrome

Dynachrome

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I opened another one last night. It was far less sour than Lienie's Summer Shandy.

[ame="http://youtu.be/o2i2aSxl52Y"]http://youtu.be/o2i2aSxl52Y[/ame]

Have any of you ever had that much head?
 

jtejedor

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Must be super carned to get that much foam. I would be scared of bottle bombs at that point.
 
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Dynachrome

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Dynachrome
Originally Posted by Dynachrome
"Maybe I'll just have to revert to using my Stainless steel boil pots like I started out.

That HDPE is that bad for wheats, huh?"

huh?
I was wondering out loud if HDPE buckets were not adequate for wheat beers. I started out just using stainless steel pots and fermenting right in the boil pots. I liked the SS for sanitation reasons. I was resistant to going to HDPE buckets for just this reason. I haven't had any problems with a properly hopped beer in the HDPE -yet-.

I'm not giving up on wheats. I don't brew them for myself - they are for my wife and friends. I'll just have to modify my process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2i2aSxl52Y&feature=youtu.be

In reply to the last post about bottle bombs, there is about a six pack left out in the garage fridge'. They've been there since last August

From August -
A couple of the last bottles (bottom of the pots) had the caps bulging within the first 24 hrs.

I just put them in our new spare refriidgerator to condition. They're already carbed.

...I may have mentioned - I have a terrible time waiting to taste a batch.
I'm pretty confident they are stable as is.
 

pjj2ba

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.........
Also, I've noticed that there is a fairly susbstantia; cloud when I pour the pre-milled grains out of the bag into the mashtun.
.........
This is one reason I've switched to wearing elbow length gauntlets for all grain handling steps. Plus I now gently add my grains to the mash tun. A while ago as I was cleaning up after a brew session I noticed that my arms were covered in grain dust. Dust could easily have fallen in the pot as I was stirring it as it cooled.
 
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I suspect the reason for your problem is that you are rinsing with bleach and letting it dry out, then you're getting the grain dust and other stuff falling on it and contaminating it. Your other beers are hopped enough to keep the infection away but wheat beers are hopped to a lesser degree, making it easy for a lacto strain (among other things) to take hold. The answer would be to either use bleach with serious rinsing immediately before using the equipment or switching to another sanitizer like starsan.

How long are you letting those beers ferment before bottling?
 

theredben

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If you pour some boiling water in your bucket, you skip the 1 hour wait time.

I am assuming you are using different yeast for your wheat beers? Is there any difference between you're brewing methods wheat vs. Barley?
 

foltster

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Are you purchasing new yeast for each batch or using some type of yeast harvesting/washing?
 
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Dynachrome

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New yeast - a different variety than the ales.

From my other thread;

Update - I severed samples of all three of the beers this weekend for the parents at my oldest son's graduation party.

I personally really liked the wheat with WB-06 best. It has very nice citrus overtones - probably from the hops and yeast - I didn't add any lemon. There is a ton of head though. It passed up the red I made on the drinkability scale. That is the last thing I would have expected. The hops settled down somewhat too.
 
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Dynachrome

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Now my last semi-botched attempt at a Two hearted clone seems to be heading that way.

There is a tidge of sour showing up.

I had thought it originally had a hint of cloying (I'm not sure, just an off flavor on the tongue) Now it seems to be getting a tad sour. It is actually helping this batch be more light on the pallet though.
 

day_trippr

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[...]Your other beers are hopped enough to keep the infection away but wheat beers are hopped to a lesser degree, making it easy for a lacto strain (among other things) to take hold. [...]
This is exactly what I was thinking as I went through this thread...

Cheers!
 
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Dynachrome

Dynachrome

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Yeah, but ...this one is fairly hoppy but it didn't have enough to match Two Hearted.

Do hops do much after the wort has cooled. I poured the wort into my fermentors the next morning. When I did that I took a bunch of the leaf hops out. I didn't think that they needed to sit there for the whole fermentation.

I'm brewing the Edmund Fitzgeralds Porter and my Eve of Destruction Pumpkin again today.

I have the Star-San out.It's a nice day out. Sunny and the high should be around 60. I'll see if I can get through it to watch the second half of the Packers game.
 
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Dynachrome

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If you pour some boiling water in your bucket, you skip the 1 hour wait time.

I am assuming you are using different yeast for your wheat beers? Is there any difference between you're brewing methods wheat vs. Barley?
I use the same equipment. I vary grain bills. I vary temps, I vary yeasts a little. Basically the same.

I've progressed into carboys. I need to get into wort chiller/chilling my wort and getting the yeast in quicker. I brew more in winter than summer.

I'm thinking of doing a wheat today thought July 16th.

Are you purchasing new yeast for each batch or using some type of yeast harvesting/washing?
Mostly fresh purchased yeast each batch.

I'm going to do a split batch wheat with one fermentor open for three days to see if I can harness some bananas :ban:

Heavy Heffe. Liquid Banana Bread
 
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