I am getting ready to add a pump to my system so that I can have a direct-fired RIMS set up. My question is, since my false bottom is smaller diameter than my pot, am I going to have major scorching issues? If so, are there any solutions that don't require large hunks of cash?
Direct Fired RIMS
- Thread starter curlyfat
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curlyfat
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Right now it's just a three-tier gravity-fed system. When I do step mashes I have to do the fire-and-frantically-stir method 
. I have a bayou classic 15.5 gallon HLT with an 11" false bottom, while the pot is almost 18" across. So far it's worked great, but now I'm concerned about recirculating instead of stirring might not be enough to keep the grain around the edge from scorching.
No pic, but here's a link to the false bottom I'm using:
ABT False Bottom
. I have a bayou classic 15.5 gallon HLT with an 11" false bottom, while the pot is almost 18" across. So far it's worked great, but now I'm concerned about recirculating instead of stirring might not be enough to keep the grain around the edge from scorching.No pic, but here's a link to the false bottom I'm using:
ABT False Bottom
I usually get to 167F turn the flame off stir my grains in the temp usually goes to 155F and recirculate for an hour and then turn the flame back on to mash out. never had a scorching problem. I'm to lazy to step mash, but I wouldn't think it would be a problem.
steveo929
Well-Known Member
Hey I have the exact same false bottom and just tried doing a direct fired rims...could definitely smell the grains scorching. Stirred it up a little bit to prevent it but that just negated the effect of my vorlauf procedure. I ended up with a lot of grains in the kettle.
Since then I've just been adding 170 degree sparge water and doing a fly sparge...much easier and you don't have to worry about scorching your wort/grains.
Since then I've just been adding 170 degree sparge water and doing a fly sparge...much easier and you don't have to worry about scorching your wort/grains.
Yeah I got a March pump. It took me a while to get it positioned properly but it works great now.
I have the same ABT FB and have no issues with scorching. After mash-in, I'll usually let it sit for half an hour, then start the recirc and add flame as needed to maintain temp.
As long as you're circulating the wort with the pump, you shouldn't have any problems. Your burner plays a part here too. If it's too big and you can't tame it down, you could have issues.
+1 I've been running a semi-automatic RIMS and circulate the wort during the entire mash period. I use a full false bottom in a Polarware kettle and fire it with a low pressure Camp Chef ring type burner. I've recently added a 12" dia. X 1/8" thick solid copper "flame tamer" under the MT to help distribute the heat. That was a big improvement and lets me ramp up temps much faster without fear of scorching. Getting a RIMS to operate properly can be both frustrating and challenging at times. It's not as easy as it looks, but once you get the bugs worked out they are worth the effort IMO.
Pintodave
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Well now this thread has me reconsidering using a large KAB under the MT. I like them bc it's a nice wide heat but I don't know how far it can be throttled back and still 'function' - 'low' heat for the KAB still might be too much for the MT... I guess I could just mount it further away, still have a nice broad heat pattern but a little more gentle on the BTU's...
Maybe 3.5-4" away from the bottom as opposed to the 2.5" I was planning...
Maybe 3.5-4" away from the bottom as opposed to the 2.5" I was planning...
I don't have any direct experience with the banjo burners, but I've observed a few in operation. They put out a lot of heat even at the lowest setting. I like your idea of moving the burner to a lower position.
So, your idea made me wonder how a burner could be mounted so that the kettle to burner distance were adjustable on the fly. Might not be worth the trouble, but it's an interesting concept IMO. I have a special jack that was designed for leveling pool tables that I might be able adapt for something like this. I knew I was saving that thing for some reason.
Pintodave
Well-Known Member
Great minds think alike
I was thinking of something similar, 4 guideposts and a piece of threaded rod for a jackscrew similar in concept to an adjustable spring bucket or panhard bar on a race car.Might be more hassle than it's worth, once you get a good height setting I'm sure it won't need that much tweaking
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curlyfat
Well-Known Member
Great minds think alike
Might be more hassle than it's worth, once you get a good height setting I'm sure it won't need that much tweaking
You guys are genius! Why not add control to one more aspect of the process? That's why I went AG and why I'm thinking RIMS: MORE CONTROL!
bigjoe
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand the problem. Is your burner that hot that it would still cause scorching when recirculating? I have a cheap cast iron burner that doesn't put out a very large flame.
I do brew in a bag with recirc and fire my burner a few times during the mash. I keep it very low and it heats it up nicely, even when trying to ramp up to mash out.
I do brew in a bag with recirc and fire my burner a few times during the mash. I keep it very low and it heats it up nicely, even when trying to ramp up to mash out.
Pintodave
Well-Known Member
I wasnt that concerned with scorching, I was concerned that possibly there would be having to perform too much "on/off" action with the big burner and all the extra BTU's it puts out, kinda like a Top Fuel dragster vs. a Camaro...
I havent fired up the rig yet, so this is why I am "theorizing" about big burner vs. small. I'll know soon enough though
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curlyfat
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My concern is that I'll have grain sitting on the bottom of the pot around the false bottom, and I'm not sure how much wort will actually be circulating through that part of the grain...
That said, my burner is pretty big, but I can adjust it from barely a flame to Jet-Engine, so I think I'll just have to find the perfect middle ground.
Eventually I want a PID controlling a solenoid valve, but will have to limit the amount of flame somehow.
Thanks for all the talk, it's helping me think through this process.
That said, my burner is pretty big, but I can adjust it from barely a flame to Jet-Engine, so I think I'll just have to find the perfect middle ground.
Eventually I want a PID controlling a solenoid valve, but will have to limit the amount of flame somehow.
Thanks for all the talk, it's helping me think through this process.
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curlyfat
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Update:
I did my first mash with the pump today. I did have some scorched grain at a couple points around the edge of the MLT, but it seems to have only afffected the color, not taste (it's a wit, so I'll find out soon enough for sure). I think i just got over-zealous with the burner.
I'll brew again next week and try to tame the flame. Would a steel plate under the pot help even out the temps?
I did my first mash with the pump today. I did have some scorched grain at a couple points around the edge of the MLT, but it seems to have only afffected the color, not taste (it's a wit, so I'll find out soon enough for sure). I think i just got over-zealous with the burner.
I'll brew again next week and try to tame the flame. Would a steel plate under the pot help even out the temps?
I've had some malt flour get under the feet of my false bottom on a few occasions. It appears to be scorched at first glance, but on closer inspection it really more like just well browned and it's easily removed. I haven't noticed any detrimental effect on the finished beer, even when this has happened with some light lagers. I've since used some very small SS sheet metal screws in the FB feet to keep this from happening. That solved the problem for me.
I don't know how well a steel plate would work as a flame tamer. An aluminum plate would be much better. It would be cheap to try the steel though and it might just work fine. I don't really know. I do know my copper one works really well. Wish I had gotten it sooner. It was pricey, but worth every penny IMO. Take it easy with the burner when direct firing and keep your wort flow rate as high as you can manage without sticking the mash. That's much easier said than done.
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curlyfat
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Thanks for the words of wisdom! Flow rate wasn't much issue, I was able to have the pump full open without any sticking (on a 60/40 wheat/malt bill).
The scorching was completely black on a couple of hot points. I think some sort of plate under my kettle will be crucial.
The scorching was completely black on a couple of hot points. I think some sort of plate under my kettle will be crucial.
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