Different approach to Sous Vide Mash

[Owly055]

I'm doing a small mash this morning (1 gallon) using my Annova Sous Vide. The technique was to use the sous vide to heat the water to strike temp. I then doughed in and used the sous vide externally to maintain the temperature by dropping the mash tun into another kettle (wash tub), and filling the intervening space with water which was heated to mash temp using the sous vide.

This does not provide the circulation of the mash which the sous vide holds out as a benefit of using it in the mash, but does offer precise and extended temp control.

The problem I ran into when I did try sous vide mash in the past using BIAB was the bag clogging and sucking up to the holes in the unit, eventually forcing it to shut off. I tried a number of methods to prevent this, and ultimately decided it simply wasn't worth the trouble. I've also tried mashing with the sous vide directly in the mash. This doesn't work because of the tightly wound heating coil which traps grain, as well as the plastic bottom piece that also wants to clog.

I would like to see Annova or someone else make a variant of the sous vide with a straight element or a very loosely wound one, and a special bottom piece designed NOT to clog. At one time I was going to make such a unit myself, but as an ordinary BIAB mash is so simple and works so well, I abandoned the project, as I have with every "improvement" on the process

The system that makes the most sense to me is a circulator and temp control without the heating element in it, but connected to an induction cooktop. The circulator would be inside the bag. It would draw from the bottom, with a grate to keep it from sucking the bag up to it, and exhaust from up high. The reason for the reverse circulation being to keep the bag lifted off the bottom of the pot.

Lately I've been mashing without a bag, using a sieve and a finer screen afterward.


H.W.

 

[bob1852]

Why don't you just RIMS/HERMS rather than reinventing the wheel?

It'll be quicker, easier, more efficient, and probably not much more expensive than trying to rig something...

 

[mmb]

Why don't you just RIMS/HERMS rather than reinventing the wheel?

It'll be quicker, easier, more efficient, and probably not much more expensive than trying to rig something...

I disagree. He's not reinventing the wheel. He's building a wheel and trying to call it something other than "wheel".

The system that makes the most sense to me is a circulator and temp control without the heating element in it, but connected to an induction cooktop

So, in other words, a direct fire kettle with a recirculating pump with a temp sensor on the outflow. If that's your goal, instead of wishing on a device that will not be made, you can just use an external pump and some racking cane and a cheap PID running an element or hotplate.

 

[Owly055]

Why don't you just RIMS/HERMS rather than reinventing the wheel?

It'll be quicker, easier, more efficient, and probably not much more expensive than trying to rig something...

??????????????? What I'm talking about is far simpler than RIMs or Herms. It completely lacks all of the plumbing and external pump hooked up with hoses, etc. Induction produces a diffused heat rather than a concentrated heat. I do not use brew kettles with valves, nor do I want a tangle of hoses and valves. This is intended to be a very simple system that can do BIAB type mashes in the kitchen without having to use a brew stand, or haul out a bunch of junk. The circulator would resemble an ice cream maker with the motor resting on the upper edge of the kettle. More efficient??? Why? Circulation is circulation, so mash efficiency will be the same. Thermal efficiency?? No way. Hoses &c equate to thermal losses.

Not to criticize the whole brew stand HERMS RIMS crowd, but there are many of us who use BIAB, and brew small and simple. Who don't want a garage full of brewing equipment.... brew stand & pump &c, or have ambitions of moving to 11 gallon brews, and ultimately into a microbrewery. We just want to brew beer, and we want the variety of beers that brewing small and frequently offers.

I'm a small scale brewer. I've brewed batches as large as 5 gallons, but I've gravitated back to small. I brew 2 gallon to 3 gallon brews. That allows me to be creative, and to experiment, and to brew frequently. I'm more into brewing than I am into drinking. I don't want 11 gallons of the same thing, or even 5. I'm not interested in having a basement bar with all my brews on tap where my friends can sit on bar stools just like they do in town. I'm not interested in holding a brewing party in the driveway, and rolling out my equipment to impress friends and neighbors.

There is more than one brewing culture here.


H.W.

 

[bob1852]

So why not just BIAB and be done with it?

 

[mmb]

So why not just BIAB and be done with it?

Because he needs a lot of specialized gear to do something so he doesn't have to have a lot of specialized gear to roll out.

 

[thekraken]

A thought just occurred to me, maybe you or someone has already tried it, why not put your biab bag in the pot -> then drop a ss hop filter in it -> then drop the sous vide circulator inside the hop filter?

Edit: Or keep the filter outside the bag if the ss mesh isn't fine enough to keep grain out...

 

[ProblemChild]

edit - probably should go ahead and use the bag.

looks like all he needs is one of those stainless steel fork/knife/spoon holders from a cafeteria grub line to drop the end of the Sous Vide in basically a fence to keep the bag from touching the intake our outlet.

it will keep the bag out of the way and let the machine do the work if the diameter is big enough.

 

[popsicleian]

edit - probably should go ahead and use the bag.

looks like all he needs is one of those stainless steel fork/knife/spoon holders from a cafeteria grub line to drop the end of the Sous Vide in basically a fence to keep the bag from touching the intake our outlet.

it will keep the bag out of the way and let the machine do the work if the diameter is big enough.

I don't use anything to separate the bag from the sous vide cooker, and it has never been a problem for me.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Aren't those devices intended to ONLY heat water? If I spent $200 bucks on something like that, I wouldn't be sticking it in wort.

what you described initially:

The system that makes the most sense to me is a circulator and temp control without the heating element in it, but connected to an induction cooktop.

is in fact a type of electric Recirculating Infusion Mash System (RIMS) .

You could do that with any number of electronic devices that are readily available ,use the STC-1000, Johnson Temp control, CraftBeerPi, Auber, MyPin, or Inkbird PIDs to control the Induction cooktop, and the recirculation could be done with one of the small DC pumps that can be connected directly to the drain valve on your kettle.

 

[PrivateWiddle]

Aren't those devices intended to ONLY heat water? If I spent $200 bucks on something like that, I wouldn't be sticking it in wort.

what you described initially:
is in fact a type of electric Recirculating Infusion Mash System (RIMS) .

You could do that with any number of electronic devices that are readily available ,use the STC-1000, Johnson Temp control, CraftBeerPi, Auber, MyPin, or Inkbird PIDs to control the Induction cooktop, and the recirculation could be done with one of the small DC pumps that can be connected directly to the drain valve on your kettle.

They are designed for water, many people on our facebook group have said that they have not had any problems with wort (caremelised sugars scorching on the element for instance).

The point of this is to add precise temperature control to BIAB not to try and replicate huge dedicated garage brewing set ups. Lots of people don't have garages or house-room for large, multi vessel systems with all sorts of controllers, pumps and hoojimaflips which are a non-starter for people living in apartments and smaller houses.

Everything I use needs to break down and ideally serve multiple purposes to justify space in the cupboard. This method works for small-batch brewing and up to 5 gallon full-volume BIAB. Beyond that it starts hitting a bunch of constraints.

Its a real boon for stove-top brewers and removes a lot of hovering-over-the-pot from the brew day (switching the heat on/off, farting around with a thermometer and constant stirring). As it also cooks really good food it frees up counter space which might otherwise be taken with other cooking gizmos. When brewing is finished everything just breaks down and goes in the cupboard.

If anyone is interested in learning more there's a facebook group called Sous Vide Beer Brewing and you'd be most welcome.

 

[deadwolfbones]

I don't have any suggestions for how to more efficiently use sous vide for mashing, but I wanted to drop in and say that I use my Anova for ferm control (heating saisons in the winter, mostly), and it works spectacularly well for that.